Is splitting the only advice people on here are ever capable of?

[MrsCs]

When someone is being abused, or someone is unfaithful, fine I get it, that's good advice.

On the other hand.....I've only been on this website a short time and every blinking thread about relationship problems gets 'why are you together?' 'what are you getting from this?'.

Relationships are hard work, they have good times and bad times, and it might help if people on here had a bit of creativity with their advice! Separations and divorces are very hard on everyone involved, and if it can be avoided it's most likely for the best, unless a couple are genuinely deeply unhappy.

Who are you to say whose opinions are dubious or not?

Because they are called into question generally.

But that's just one poster making one response. As the caution says at the top of every page, the people here are not professionals and are not qualified to give advice. In the same way as conversation in a room of strangers will result in a lot of different opinions, a message board will throw up a few extremes.

My experience is that posters generally look for responses that chime with their own thoughts. If they're determined to stick it out they will latch onto the one person that says 'give it another try' and ignore the 99 that say 'LTB'. If they have a suspicion that they are being ill treated, they will do the opposite. I've seen very few people genuinely change their minds.

Because they are called into question generally

By the mumsnet elite? Or just by you? Where are you calling these posters into question? Do they get a say in your judging of them? Why do you feel the need to call anyone into question?

Are you the Queen of Mumsnet?

These threads appear every few months or so and there's always a poster or two who takes the opportunity to have a pop at "certain unnamed regulars" on the relationships board. It's horrible. Disagree with their views on the threads in question.

But who is to say someone's life would be better of by you being single - a bunch of strangers on an internet

that's the point of the question "what are you getting from this?" and "what does he bring to your life?" because for some woman, they need to have it pointed out to them that being single is an option. It might not be the best option, and that's up to the OP to think about for themselves, but some do need the options spelling out.

I was reminded of a thread a while ago, it was by a mother and was about the relationship between her DD and her DSD, and the DSD had 'stolen' the DD's boyfriend. One thing that struck me at the time was the fact that the mum said her DD was "proud to have a boyfriend" - and loads of posters didn't think this was wrong or odd - not "proud/happy to be in a relationship with this particular boy" but that the very act of being in a relationship with anyone was a desirable thing for a teenager. That being single was worse than being in a relationship, regardless of the personality of the boy in question (and clearly a cheater who wasn't worth her tears if he'd dump her for her step-sister).

Lots of woman have been brought up with this mindset, and passing it on to their DDs, being in a relationship is higher status than single even if that relationship is crap.

It does need pointing out that it's not the case that if you can't get a good relationship your next best option isn't a crap one, but being single. that if you are in a crap relatinship, it's ok to think "would I be happier if I was single?"

(but then I tend to read these threads and don't marvel at the OP being told to LTB, but that they gave such a fuckwit a second date...)

Because they are called into question generally.

By the way 'Sir', this is just bullying by stealth. If you really feel the need to call people into question in a little elite group of tutters then you need to take a look at yourselves.

OP I don't think it should be such hard work.

I have been with my DH for nearly 25 years.

I too am amazed by what passes for acceptable amongst people who post here for advice. i must admit I felt like you, OP when I first started on MN, but over time, patterns emerge. People ofeten post about something relatively innocuous but then much deeper seated issues emerge from questioning.

agree with what winter said way back on page two, it should be a continuous positive choice to stay with somebody. You shouldn't stay with somebody because you feel paralysed to leave.

And as for the "who is to say you'd be happier single?" question, well, it's not compulsory to be part of a couple, and if the other half of your 'couple' puts you in the position of having to do all the work to keep the 'relationship' functioning, then yes, then why wouldn't you be happier single!?

I think this is the eureka moment I was mentioned on page 1. Some people are so invested in to the idea of being part of a couple no matter what that they view being single not as a positive alternative to being miserable with somebodyy but as a fate to be avoided at all costs.

And as slice and cailindana and another poster said, there are more than enough places, the church, soiciety, economic factors, all piling down on top of women pressuring them to just accept decades more unhappiness.

THere has to be one place where it is ok to say "if you're unhappy with him, you can be single, that's perfectly OK".

The OP thinks it's necessary to be deeply unhappy before leaving, that's a very worrying mindset that needs to be challenged. I don't mean the oP needs to be challenged but that pathetic mindset of clinging to a relationship that is hard work because you're not miserable enough , that definitely needs to be countered with regular assurances that a woman is allowed to choose to be single allowed to choose to leave the bastard

MN relationship boards made me realise the extent to which I was being abused. The posters here have helped me understand what constitutes abusive behaviour,without which, I probably would never have realised.

I find the relationship boards incredibly valuable and will be on there to help others the way posters helped me.

These threads appear every few months or so
^^ yy they do but I try to balance them with the many more threads where:

• the OP is thanking MNers for their advice in relationships.
• the OP is getting ongoing support with their relationship.
• an OP returns to say they've escaped an abusive relationship and their life is much better

MN is shock,horror by no means perfect but some people's lives are immeasurably better because they've posted on the relationships board here. If the help they've received causes some other unrelated posters to feel uncomfortable then I think it's a small price to pay.

yes, same here.

Find me somebody who left a bastard and wishes they hadn't.

Puds

MN has also enabled me to understand what constitutes abusive behaviour. I really don't think I would have had a clue had I not found it. I have been able to support friends as a result, and have discussions with my sons too..

I have to take breaks every now and then because I get so upset reading posts from deeply unhappy women (usually) who feel stuck in unhappy relationships.

So often they are desperately looking for reasons to leave, or for "evidence" of infidelity or other actions that will "justify" them leaving. It's as if they have been brainwashed into thinking they are not permitted to simply say "This isn't working for me, I'm off."

Some women do seem to think that being single is worse than being in an abusive relationship, no matter how awful the impact is on their DC. These are the threads that really make me furious. There is one at the moment where the OP is defending her DH abuse of her DS over and over. It makes me nauseous.

I am glad I live in a world where if you are unhappy you actually can LTB!

I haven't been on here long but I have posted a few times, never name changed. I started the thread because I wanted to understand the responses I'd read better. It's a valid point though that I should do it on individual threads though. Asking why people post like that was actually helpful though, some of the responses about abusive undertones were enlightening.

For the record I never suggested anyone should be with someone because they are ashamed to leave, however the impact of separation is considerable. I know for me, it would be the last option when I knew we could not ever be happy again.

Thanks for starting this post OP. I've often felt after reading posts on here that either I or my partner are saints for tolerating each others crazy behaviour & sticking together for 15 years. But I know that that's what a relationship is all about. I don't suggest tolerating real abuse for a minute, but simple personality clash is not something I would run away from. No relationship is perfect, and showing compassion & understanding is needed to keep going. I see nothing wrong in being in a relationship in which I don't 'win' all the time.

This is a genuine question MrsC - how do you figure out that you "could not ever be happy again"? How long do you hang in there before it becomes clear that your life will be miserable forever more?

You shouldn't forget that people who post here are a self selecting group.

Predominantly (but obviously not exclusively) mothers and within that group, SAHM/ housewives who have the time to post.

Within that group, the relationships board subset tends to attract those who first posted because of their own relationship issues and then hung around dispensing advice. So there are a lot of people on this board in particular with their own pain and experiences. If your husband left you for an OW or had an affair, it's not surprising that this will spill over in to your advice to others.

Ultimately, posting for advice here is asking for advice from a totally random group of strangers and you have no idea who is behind any username. Could be a dirty great oaf of a man wanking in his stained underpants.

Take it where it comes from. If you want absolutely independent considered advice, go see a counsellor.

But I agree that LTB is dispensed round here like Pez candies.

Artistic, it's not about 'winning' in fact there should be no 'win' or 'lose' in a relationship, it's not a game and it's not a competition. It's about two people who genuinely care for each other supporting each other and being there for each other. What other reason is there to be in a relationship?

Artistic- relationships are not about winning or losing, though. And, FWIW, I personally would definitely 'run away' from a personality clash! Maybe we have different definitions for personality clash but I can't understand why anyone would want to be a relationship with someone of their personalities don't match!?! And I don't mean be identical, but mesh, be complimentary to each other. Definitely not clash!

I think the crux of the issue here is peoples' differing understanding of what constitutes "real abuse"

'simple personality clash'

That might be true of casual friends, people you work with or family members but why would anyone choose to spend years in a relationship with someone when there was a personality clash? The whole point of the dating phase, surely, is that you get to know someone's personality and work out if the incompatibilities are minor or serious? And, if it's serious, surely there's no point taking it further?

I see too many threads where women have been with someone for a relatively short space of time, are clearly incompatible, and are asking 'should I try harder?' For God's sake no!!! Even worse when they've been together for a longer period, are totally incompatible, and are wondering if they should stick it out and get married because they don't think they have time to meet someone new. WTF?!

I see the relationships board as a place where women are given permission to question their relationship, to learn that they have a right to be respected, to learn that being alone is better than being with an abusive partner. They are given the courage to stand up for themselves and to think of themselves as worthwhile.

I've very rarely been on a thread where LTB was suggested unreasonably. I can understand someone thinking it was unreasonable if they only read the opening post - they need to read everything the OP says.

The women on the relationships board stand in for our best friends - they say what we don't necessarily want to hear, they tell us that we are worth something, that we don't have to put up with appalling behaviour and that we can cope alone.

I dont think 'LTB' is used too freely here. In most cases (from what I've seen) it is used when there is some sort of obvious (to the reader, if not the OP) abuse happening in a relationship.

And I actually think the far more common responses - 'what are you getting out of this relationship?' 'Why are you with him?' etc - are really crucial questions that may prompt the OP into really looking at what is really going in a relationship. I'm glad women have a place like MN to come and talk and have those questions asked of them. As a pp said, these are questions that women dont ask enough, in my opinion.

On a separate point...I DO think relationships are hard work. I'm surprised by all those who feel otherwise, actually.

I have been with my DH for 15 years and I think we have a very strong, healthy and loving relationship. But by GOD its been hard work. Love and respect and support for each other has got us through hard times, but life is hard...keeping communication, intimacy, sex, affection and a healthy independent life for each of us going through 15 years of raising children and life's many ups and downs...thats hard work!

Surely it's life that's hard work though Jumbee?

What I mean is, things get thrown your way and you both struggle, but it shouldn't be hard work to actually deal with your partner and if it is then you have to ask why is it hard work, why are pulling against me rather than with me? Sometimes the answer is that they're depressed or need some sort of external help but often the answer is that the relationship is not very good and the partner is a bit of a shit. Only the detail of what's happening can shed light on that.

Cailin, it's hard to say really because it's different for the individual. I ended the relationship before oh after about six months of trying everything I could and lots of talking about how to make things better. I'm not sure I have a time limit as such, it was more a feeling of just being done.

My view on it, MrsC is that if both partners are working on whatever problem has come up, then great, keep plugging away until you both feel you've exhausted your options. But if one partner is running around after the other trying to get them to be more reasonable and less horrible, while the horrible partner doesn't really care then that's a complete waste of time, don't even spend a day doing that.