Is splitting the only advice people on here are ever capable of?

[MrsCs]

When someone is being abused, or someone is unfaithful, fine I get it, that's good advice.

On the other hand.....I've only been on this website a short time and every blinking thread about relationship problems gets 'why are you together?' 'what are you getting from this?'.

Relationships are hard work, they have good times and bad times, and it might help if people on here had a bit of creativity with their advice! Separations and divorces are very hard on everyone involved, and if it can be avoided it's most likely for the best, unless a couple are genuinely deeply unhappy.

You talk a lot of sense Patchworkpatty.

My OH often behaves in a way that's not very sensible and sometimes inconsiderate - and so do I. We're human beings, FFS, not saints.

When someone is in an abusive relationship they obviously need to take decisive action to protect themselves. But some of the situations where the immediate advice given is LTB are not in that category.

I told a boyfriend to "stop being a fuckwit" once

I got a black eye for my trouble, so it didn't really solve the problem

Not one poster has left a partner because MN told her to. If anybody were that biddable, it's unlikely they'd have lived long enough to have a relationship and post about it.

Not one poster has said "I left him after what you all said, and I wish I hadn't." But hundreds have come back to share how much better their life is without a miserable dead weight around their neck. Their children are happier - says it all, doesn't it?

"Why are you together?" and "What are you getting from this?" are completely reasonable questions to someone who's anxious about their relationship. They are meant to be answered!

It isn't true that all posters are advised to LTB. It is true that most posters here have already done the talking, re-negotiating, followed advice from crappy self-help books and are still twisting themselves out of shape for an unappreciative partner.

So ... Your marriage is hard work, hmm?

I've posted about my relationship and been rightly told to give my head a wobble, come down off my high horse and give my DH a kiss.
Equally, I've posted about other more serious things and had it talked through in a very kind and considerate way, with some suggestions that leaving might be appropriate. Again, good advice.

You don't have to be "genuinely deeply unhappy" to leave a relationship.

When you have been here long enough, and you have been through dysfunctional relationships, things can jump out as red flags that maybe wouldn't otherwise.

I have been on threads in chat and aibu that on the surface didn't look like threads about DV, but to me, and others, there were red flags in the OP. And within two pages posters have got past the thread title and have figured out the crux of the problem.

Of course the LTB advice isn't always appropriate, but I actually think that you are looking at this wrong. Your eyes are being opened to the sheer amount of women who are in relationships that are terrible, suffocating places to be. With men who are controlling them and abusing them and they don't even know it.

I just told him to stop being a fuckwit.

Patch I am glad that your marriage has lasted so long and that your husband listens when you tell him this. But that isn't the reality for most. Its actually dangerous to even talk about a relationship like that on here IMO, because women who are being abused will cling on to the tiniest bit of hope as a reason to stay. And hearing that just makes them think that one day their abusive partner might just change.

I would rather people who didn't need to LTB got told to, than even one woman in a bad situation didn't get told that she deserves more from her life.

The relationships are hard work attitude seems weird to me. I'm happily single (although I've had two short relationships in the last three years).

I just can't imagine being persuaded to 'work' at a relationship! A relationship should be easy and it should make you happier and it should add to your life. The person should be happy for you and support you and if they don't then what is wrong with being single?

I think if you view being single as the worst case scenario then your point makes sense to other people who view being single as the worst case scenario. But to anybody who is post eureka then , no, it doesn't.

If your relationship is basically good, and you really want to stay, a bunch of strangers on the internet saying "LTB" won't make a blind bit of difference. In fact, if someone says "LTB" when you really don't want to, chances are you'll find a way to get back from that and sort the problem out.

But if you are in a situation where really you should LTB and people finally give you "permission" to do so then that can be a lifesaver.

Essentially, though no one actually has to listen if someone says LTB.

i agree slice of soup.

Thank God I was told in no uncertain terms to ltb. Because you're right, deluded and clinging to hope as I was at the time, I think I posted to be told that relationships are hard work. The very attitude I've no time for now. It was what I thought I wanted to hear at the time, to frame my misery as normal, to frame the fear of leaving as substituting one set of problems for another.

Thank goodness nobody gave me hope.

Part of the reason why the instances of LTB can seem overwhelming to fairly new posters is because there are very few other places where you'll find them.

Society; families; the Church; convention; even fairytales tell people they should stay in relationships. They should stay even if they're being beaten, undermined, ridiculed or/and controlled. MN is a tiny little haven that says it's actually ok to leave. And for some, as cailindana said, this will be the only place that gives them permission to leave.

That's an important step for the health of any relationship.

You shouldn't be with someone because you think you can't leave or because you're afraid to leave. It has to be a continual, positive choice to stay.

I agree Winter. If you're in a position where you'll never leave someone no matter what, then you are in an extremely dangerous position. If that person is great, and never cheats, well fantastic you'll have a lovely life. But if that person is nasty, stops loving you for whatever reason, becomes abusive, or you simply stop loving them, then you're fucked.

I think a continual positive choice to stay is a really good way of putting it.

Very true APlaceInTheWinter

When my ex stole money from me and hit me, my mum told me to give him another chance.

When he broke into my house and threatened to cut my face with broken glass, refused to leave and screamed and shouted so loud I could hear him in the house while I was locked in the car on the drive with our DD, his mum was on the phone telling me to call the police back and tell them not to come. She begged me to take him back.

If I had been on MN back then it would never have got that far. I wouldn't have held on so long. Because I would have been told that it was ok to leave him.

Jesus slice.

I also come from a family that believes that once a man has decided to have a woman, that's it, she's his prisoner for life.

Hence my mother has been married to a boring wastrel for 35 years and doesn't want to retire because she can't stand the thought of having to see him all day every day.

:( cailindana.

I know a few women actually, relatives and family friends, who are older than me, one near retirement age, who are very unhappy in their marriages. It would never occur to these women that there is an alternative.

One in particular is in an awful relationship with an alcoholic. They live in denial about the drinking. She lives in denial about the abuse. I have witnessed the physical abuse firsthand, when I was 15, and other family members know about it. But they all kid themselves that because he holds down a good job and they have a nice house and decent money and new cars, everything is fine. She has a degree, a great job, and so many options.

But it just isn't "the done thing".

The most ironic thing about my mum is that now that I have a lovely DH she can't seem to do anything but judge and criticise him.

Relationships are hard work

Are they fuck.
If a r'ship is 'hard work' then something is wrong with the r'ship.
Pisses me off no end when these sorts of statements are chucked around.

But doesn't everyone give advice with some kind of predijuice based on personal experience? Don't we often misunderstand stuff that just relies on the written word? Aren't we bound to not know the full extent of things through a little précis comment on a forum? Hopefully, even in emotional and highly charged, often immediate situations the OP will bear that in mind that the responses are, therefore, limited?

I think it's arrogant to say that it's wrong for a relationship to be hard work. How can you possibly know what is meant in a few hundred words on a forum?

I think relationships are often hard work, whether it be partners, children, family, friends or fellow workers. I would say life is often hard work. But, to me, that's what makes it worth living. That's what makes it interesting. How we all revolve around each other.

If, however, I said my husband is hard work maybe that would sound terrible. But maybe I could be saying with a happy smile on my face. There's so much you don't know.

Of course the responses are limited. No one claims otherwise. But in many cases it takes only one sentence that the OP writes, and they don't even know they have written it really, it just comes out among the rest, and that sentence gives a different slant to it.

As someone upthread said, no woman has ever LTB after advice on here, and come back to say they regretted it. But there are threads all the time from women who are writing their posts from places of safety, thanking perfect strangers for helping them with words on a screen.

Life is hard work. That is very true. But why would you chose to spend your life with someone that makes it harder?

Relationships shouldn't be hard work. That's not arrogant. Its the truth. We all deserve the best, no compromises.

When I was with XH, emotionally/verbally abusive alcoholic with minor bouts of physical abuse I was told by DM, 'how lucky I was' and 'well you made your bed...'. Even XH would tell me how 'lucky' I was as 'some men hit their wives'. Obviously a shove and a push and constantly threatening anal rape is nothing - in his eyes. I did think I had to put up with it. He told me I was useless, worthless and he'd get the DCs because he had a good job. And I believed him. My best friend made me see sense but it took a year to get the strength to leave. If I'd been on MN then I would have realised sooner that this isn't normal behaviour, that I didn't have to put up with it.

It's a huge difference between LTB for abuse and LTB for leaving a wet towel on the floor! Even now nearly 10 years on I still panic at his name if he sends a text. MN has helped me get myself back through other MNs experiences. If that makes sense?! It's late and my amazing DP is snoring so I'm up and no, I won't LTB for that

up to a point, yes. which is stupid.
lots of great advice nonetheless

But what does that mean, slice of soup, "we all deserve the best"? That's just a glib phrase. I still think it's extremely arrogant of you to say that relationships shouldn't be hard work. There's know way you can possibly know what those worded mean to everybody. But then, I don't know, maybe you're just incredibly lazy? If that's offensive to you or you thiink I've misunderstood, I think you could say the same about your sweeping judgements on all relationships and what people want from them.

Well a couple of years ago I posted about a situation with my H on relationships and the first response was "your poor husband" and that I was being awful! It was marital rape btw, not an argument about taking out the washing.

In my experience, the first couple of responses will dictate the way the thread goes and there a couple of very visible posters who always advise LTB no matter what!

why are you together?' 'what are you getting from this?

I'm sure I have said something like that on occasions, and I do see it as a positive comment. When someone posts a list of complaints about their partner, I think it is perfectly to ask these questions and can be constructive too.

Sometimes life is difficult and hard work, but my marriage never has been. I do not understand what people mean when they say good relationships are hard work. They are not. OP you have only been married for 5 years. Why do you find it hard work??

OP, you're about to be told to LTB because you dared say that sometimes marriage is hard work. LOL.

I think leaving should be considered an option far more often. It doesn't have to be the option someone takes, but as one of a range of viable options it should be there.

But way way way too often (IMO), it goes like this:

OP posts with a complex issue

replies are LTB instantly and then posters get irritated when she doesn't. Like it's a personal affront when the OP doesn't go straight to a shelter with her DCs. And then the thread turns into having a go at the OP for not LTB rather than supporting her.

Not saying leaving shouldn't be suggested, but other decisions should be supported too.