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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is splitting the only advice people on here are ever capable of?

654 replies

MrsCs · 21/02/2015 23:16

When someone is being abused, or someone is unfaithful, fine I get it, that's good advice.

On the other hand.....I've only been on this website a short time and every blinking thread about relationship problems gets 'why are you together?' 'what are you getting from this?'.

Relationships are hard work, they have good times and bad times, and it might help if people on here had a bit of creativity with their advice! Separations and divorces are very hard on everyone involved, and if it can be avoided it's most likely for the best, unless a couple are genuinely deeply unhappy.

OP posts:

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 15:43

Don't be disingenuous Frank, we all know what you were up to and it didn't work.

krismint1 · 25/02/2015 15:50

I agree that feminism in domestic settings is good and all that but it can go a bit too far to the extent of it's all being about "me, me, me". There are so many benefits to giving too.

sliceofsoup · 25/02/2015 15:53

You seem to have made a lot of (incorrect) assumptions about feminism.

I can't say I know a lot about it, but I do know its not all me,me,me.

A good relationship involves give and take. Feminism doesn't undermine that.

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse · 25/02/2015 16:03

Oh Bathtime

This But the reality is, it's not about men. It's about women and what is right and best for them. We want women to be happy

Wanting women to be happy doesn't imply that you want men to be sad

Is just the most amazing sentiment. Beautiful. Thank you for posting that. It's made all the pointless posts worthwhile

MN is one of the very few places where women are the priority.

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 16:05

'Me me me' is solipsism not feminism.

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse · 25/02/2015 16:06

I would actually be enormously interested in hearing kris's views in 10 years time. I do cringe at some of my views way back when.

Clarabumps · 25/02/2015 16:16

Bath time, that was eloquently put. So very true.

shovetheholly · 25/02/2015 16:29

I do think Mumsnet is by and large a pretty empowering and empowered place in terms of telling women that they have options, that they can do it if they try, that they shouldn't be limited by inherited gender roles, and that they don't have to put up with all kinds of crap from men. I am not criticising that. I think it's brilliant. And utterly, completely appropriate when it comes to the many awful cases of cheating and abuse on this forum. I have no doubt that Mumsnet really has supported a lot of women in taking positive and decisive action.

However, I do think that there is sometimes a lack of judgement in the way this is applied. There are posts where a woman really doesn't evidence serious mistreatment, where it is absolutely obvious that only one side is being given, or where it's quite possible that a couple have simply had a minor spat and no more - and 'leave the bastard' is still the answer. The desire to leap to an absolutely certain statement 'HE IS CHEATING' on the barest of all evidence worries me at times. It can be a wee bit paranoid and very polarising, so all grey gets sucked out of a complicated issue and it is transformed into something simple and black and white.

I also think the way that other women are treated is sometimes lacking in compassion. I would actually like to see a bit more feminism in this regard - more gender solidarity, and more blame being placed on the cheating DH.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 25/02/2015 16:36

But if you want to see that change, surely its partly down to you to be that change. Plough on in.

I've looked in vain for Frank, New Rule and Kismet's contributions to relationship threads over the past few days. It seems they prefer to just criticize others with no actual will to post anything constructive themselves.

"What does being happy mean?" brings to mind Prince Charles' "What does love mean?" when asked how he felt about Diana.

Lweji · 25/02/2015 16:50

shove, sure there are always people over dramatizing (although I think in the end they may be more right than it was apparent at first - there are pps coming here later saying that they didn't believe there was another woman and it turned out that there was, only we don't see that in the original thread) but when the general consensus is one way, it's not based on one spat or one lie.

sliceofsoup · 25/02/2015 16:56

The trouble with online forums is that advice will be black and white, and often biased, because the posters only hear one side, and aren't privvy to all the ins and outs. So I agree with you shove but I would say that isn't exclusive to mumsnet, or necessarily coming from a bad place.

I also completely agree with your sentiments regarding cheating DHs and where the blame is placed. I think MN is better than RL but still has a way to go. I posted my opinion on this on a thread recently.

I don't find myself on "is he cheating" threads very often because I don't have much experience of that myself, but I see the OW attracting a lot of criticism on here often, when the DH doesn't seem to be blamed to the same extent.

Original poster

MrsCs · 25/02/2015 17:22

Do you think, soup, that it's the idea of sisterhood? I'm surmising here because personally if my OH was unfaithful the brunt of my fury would be at him because the promises we made were to each other.

I'd feel disgust towards and not understand a a woman if she had knowingly pursued my married husband, because personally I respect other people's relationships too much to do that. Also I think generally if someone is willing to cheat they are not someone I'd want to be with.

By comparison I'd be far angrier and more horrified by my OH's willingness to tear apart our family than at the woman involved.

There was an occasion a while back at a party we were at that an acquaintance (friend of a friend of mine) was ridiculously flirtatious toward my husband. She has in the past admitted finding him very attractive and I remember watching her behaviour get more and more extreme and feeling more pity for her than anything else because he wasn't responding and she was making a fool of herself.

OP posts:

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 17:23

Agree with JohnRuskin: be the change you want to see.

I would have thought it was perfectly obvious that only one side of the story is given on here... there's only one OP.

I don't think that a woman needs to 'evidence serious mistreatment' to ask for help. If you're implying that some posters exaggerate, no doubt that's true, but there are also a lot of posters who minimise...

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 17:26

The way OW are treated on here is one thing I fundamentally disagree with. Sometimes I wade in and say my piece and sometimes I can't be arsed.

BertieBotts · 25/02/2015 17:34

Another "yay" standing ovation here for Bathtime's post :)

BertieBotts · 25/02/2015 17:40

Yeah, I don't really tend to go on cheating threads, but I feel similarly. Yes it's wrong to pursue a married person but it's worse to be the one cheating.

Original poster

MrsCs · 25/02/2015 17:44

I suppose there might be a compulsion to blame the woman as, even when you are really hurt and angry, there is all that residual love and memories towards your partner. It's easier to blame the person you never felt warm towards than someone you've shared special moments with.

I'm just trying to figure it out really because I've never been in that situation. Maybe when you move past the initial shock the anger moves more in the correct decision of the person who actually cheated on you?

OP posts:

flippinada · 25/02/2015 17:45

I've been lurking and reading these last couple of days and just want to say how much I love Bathtime's wonderful post. So eloquent and beautifully put. Thank you .

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 18:23

I do think that there is sometimes a lack of judgement ... posts where a woman really doesn't evidence serious mistreatment ... where it's quite possible that a couple have simply had a minor spat - and 'leave the bastard' is still the answer. The desire to leap to an absolutely certain statement 'HE IS CHEATING' on the barest of all evidence worries me at times. It can be a wee bit paranoid and very polarising, so all grey gets sucked out of a complicated issue

I would agree with all of that, shove, if things happen as you've depicted. But you are not describing this forum. I've been here for nine years. MN has taught me a lot about my own relationships, helped me to become very much more perceptive, and reinforces the value of women every day.

I don't like OW-bashing either, but I think sometimes you have to let an OP vent her anger.

sliceofsoup · 25/02/2015 18:25

I do agree with this, I can see why the one who has been cheated on would feel anger towards the OW. Its a completely understandable thing. But in so many threads I have seen on here, that anger passes over into irrational, and while a few posters will say that the anger should be directed more towards the DH, a scary amount of women agree with the poster and tell her she is justified.

I don't think I am explaining what I mean properly, because of course any one would be angry at the OW. Its more when they choose to stay with their DH and make excuses for him.

No woman should pursue someone they know to be in a relationship, but how many times are these men telling the OW that they aren't happy, that their wife is a bitch etc etc. I would say thats very common. And maybe sometimes its true, but not all the time.

But like I say, I haven't any experience of this so I am prepared to be educated.

sliceofsoup · 25/02/2015 18:30

Not totally sure what you mean by the idea of sisterhood OP.

In RL I would say I get on better with men than women, because I have found friendships with women a complete minefield. Its not that I dislike women, I would hope that its clear from my posts that I don't. But women do seem to be in competition with each other a lot of the time.

I wish that women could come together for each other more in RL the way I see so many do on here.

LurcioAgain · 25/02/2015 18:43

Another like for Bathtime's post.

Can I pick up on something way upthread? Someone disagreed with the idea that we "deserve" decent relationships, saying something along the lines of "no-one deserves anything in life." Now, this might be true of the natural world - no-one deserves cancer, or deserves to be free of it: it's just one of those terrible random things that happens to some people and not others. But it is very much not true of the social world of human interactions. The man you are interacting with is a person, capable of deciding how he treats other people, not a force of nature like a tornado. All people deserve a certain base-line level of respect and consideration from other people - that's just the basic social contract pretty much any society (other than the ones portrayed in post-apocalyptic zombie movies) is built on. And when the person in question is your partner, that requirement goes up from base-line respect and consideration to a whole lot more - love, respect, concern for well being. If a man is not treating you in this way, as you deserve to be treated, he is a wrong-un.

NB, I am aware that there are posters who think this is a weird view. They're the ones who think rape is like being struck by lightning, a mysterious thing that happens if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time rather than something a rapist plans to do. They're the ones who say "men don't see dirt" ignoring the fact that the man not seeing dirt is perfectly capable of keeping his professional workspace tidy. They're the ones who say "how can he be expected to be nice after a hard day at work?" ignoring the fact that he manages to be nice and polite to his boss and saves the crap up to dump on his wife. Newsflash: men are people too. They decide how to treat people. If a man treats you badly, it is because he cannot be arsed to be nice to you, or worse, gets off on being nasty to you.

Original poster

MrsCs · 25/02/2015 18:45

True, likewise I've never been in that position so I wouldn't know.

OP posts:

Lweji · 25/02/2015 19:34

there are also a lot of posters who minimise...

I'd actually say the majority of those in abusive relationships.

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 20:55

I'd actually say the majority of those in abusive relationships

Exactly.

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