Dear DH

[AccordingtoSteve]

It's started so sweetly. I thought you were everything I ever wanted in a man. Vulnerable, yet attentive. Polite and unassuming. You were the antithesis of my ex and I welcomed you into my world with ease and comfort. Thinking all the while you were actually how you portrayed yourself to be.

Then we had words. I cannot remember what happened or why but you were here, staying with me and something was said you took offence to. You then took yourself up to the top of the garden to sulk, for over two hours.

I was bereft. Cried. What was it I had done so wrong to you to make you act this way? I Questioned and interrogated myself, because it was all me and my behaviour that had caused this wasn't it. You told me that.

I should have run here.

The next time. You came to stay, you had written a list of things you thought I had done while we were together that you saw as wrong. It was quite long. I was again devastated. I didn't realise that this was the first chink of my armour being chipped away. Chip away you continued to do and have been ever since.

I should have run here.

For years and months we have stayed together. Our arguments being about your behaviour, yet twisted around to make me think it was mine, after all; I am accusatory and proportioning blame at you where there was none. I don't let you get a word in. I don't let you speak. I get loud and angry. You don't have a voice. I..am..out..of..order.

This is now the reason you don't speak. You are afraid I will accuse and blame. None of this is your fault. I get drunk. I get angry. You are just an innocent in this failing relationship. You have never acted in any way that is wrong.

Now we are here. It's the last post. We are both defensive and angry with each other. I say you have done something and then I get accused of it. You behave like a child and yet I am suddenly the childish one if I pull you up on it.

I try to explain. I am told that I have stated I have done nothing but accuse and make myself seem the better person. According to you, I am stating that I am perfect and you are not. This is not what I feel I have done but I am wracked with guilt and second guessing myself because this is what you have said. I am trying to talk, to sort this out. I am left feeling like crap because I have failed, once again.

My mind is blown now. I second and third guess everything about myself now. I am fucked. I am not whole. I don't thank you.

Steve, I've got similar diaries. It took me longer than you to see the truth and finally leave

I'm so glad I kept them though. Anytime I start to doubt what happened, I can read them and know it was all real.

Love the idea of the whiskey barrel :)

Chris I would probably have stayed longer if I hadn't found you all here who opened my eyes to it. If I hadn't realised (or had it pointed out to me) that my beautiful youngest daughter was learning about relationships from me and the one we were modelling for her was not a good relationship at all.

I made a comment earlier about H moaning about the shoes in the hallway. In my diary from 2012, he had turned a comment I had made into an argument and moaned about me leaving my handbags all over the place. I had totally forgotten about that!

Steve, just think, you can leave your shoes wherever you want! :o

It's amazing how obvious it can be from the outside, and how blind you can be on the inside. When I first came on MN, I thought I was the problem. I thought I was a horrible nag who got everything wrong, made everyone unhappy and I couldn't understand why I was so anxious and upset. By asking the right questions people soon pointed out that my XH was a horrible man. It was only then that I realised I wasn't the only anxious one :( the dcs were too. We were all scared of him. We all dreaded what mood he'd come home in.

Hindsight is 20/20!

The diary helped me see how long it had gone on for, and now all promises to change came to nothing. Even then I kept wanting to believe that things could be fixed.

Now I cannot believe how many years of my life I wasted being so very unhappy. My DCs are thriving. I have a new (lovely) dh, who couldn't be less like XH if he tried! Funny how my anxiety reduced almost overnight after I left :) times were hard sometimes, but so much easier than struggling on with that millstone around my neck!

Thank you Chris and I do! damn shoes every where, and handbags!

I'm sad you went through many more years of this than I did, you are so lovely. Glad you have met someone who treats you the way you deserve to be treated. For me, right now, that is an impossibility.

Busy working through the backlog of work that wasn't done while I was on "stress" leave. Buggers at work only ever cover emergencies, so a backlog of cancelled meetings and visits/deadlines to work through. They have supported me and I feel well and able to be back there but....FUCK! anyway, sorry.. rant over!

Gawd, been reading and posting on a few other threads here tonight. I don't know how you regular posters do it here, I really don't! you are amazing being here, supporting people, some whom don't seem to get it at all. So frustrating.

H mentioned on Saturday that he would like to meet up and discuss things. Due to my backlog I cannot offer anything earlier than Friday night. Of Course this is ok for him.

BUT.. Ok, my thinking levels have meandered along this path.. its all in and out and across the wires..

1. I have been really happier and relieved that me and my girls are here.

2. I am gutted about our baby girl, the timing was bloody awful but I was never going to stop this "train from leaving its station" anyway, despite that.

3. You (H) have done fuck all about organising any counselling. I said we would do it again (even if I am reluctant) but come on!

4. Having re-read diary entries from 2012 I am like WTF did I stay?

5. I don't think I want to do this, I'm sorry.

6. I really miss what we had, but what we had when it was good was (insert random number of years between 1-2 here) ago..

7. We have both talked to the youngest and she seems happy this is "temporary" you seem happy for this to be "temporary" but I have signed a tenancy agreement now and a contract with broadband for at least a year.

8. You are still so fucking miserable and depressed, you are going to blame it on the current situation of me leaving and the cat dying but you mentioned it ages ago and have not even approached a GP to sort it out.

Anyway, sorry for ranting/rambling. I need to get it out of my head.

You stayed because you wanted it to work and you hoped that the man that he had initially portrayed himself to be would come back. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Pleased you have got lots of shoes and handbags!

I couldn't agree more with you about the regulars (including Chris who has by far the best username on here!) who give up so much of their time to help and support people, they are amazing and give so much insight.

Good that you have been happier with your girls. You sound like you have very much made the right decision. Please rant and ramble as much as you like, it's allowed on here! Take care. x

Chris pleased it has all worked out so well for you. x

Thanks iwashappy, me too! :) I'm more of an irregular poster than a regular one. It's so sad how many people think that what they have is normal and all they deserve. It takes time to realise and accept that actually you're being treated badly.

Steve, that list is utterly brilliant. Can I ask what it is you still need to discuss that can't be dealt with by email? You sound so certain that you've done the right thing, and so much happier. You realise that he'll just be trying to guilt trip you into coming back?

Is it time for you to say, it is over, I'm happier without you. You had your chance to mend things when we were together. The fact that I was unhappy wasn't enough for you to change. Why would I want someone who will only change when they are made unhappy?

Work is always a pain when you've been off! Rant away!

And I stayed so long because I am a very slow learner :o

chris I am not sure what he wants to discuss, I guess he is thinking along the lines of "how are we going to make it work"

I promise one thing, I am not going to be guilt tripped into anything. I've been there and done that already. Thats why I stayed. I'll meet with him but I actually am just interested to hear what he has to say, I cannot think of one thing he could offer me that would be better than what I have right now, peace!

The irony is that the youngest wants to go up to his again and stay over Friday night, so that's out of the window now anyway I feel I need more time anyway, I am starting to see through the fog that is lifting, its starting to feel great.

You have also just cracked it for me with this You had your chance to mend things when we were together. The fact that I was unhappy wasn't enough for you to change. Why would I want someone who will only change when they are made unhappy?

Thank you lovely

iwas I am happy to leave my shoes and handbags wherever I want to now, its ace isn't it

It's an amazing revelation, isn't it? I remember having it. I spent ages wondering why he couldn't understand I was sad. Of course he understood! He was far from stupid. He just didn't care. Until it affected him!

I'll make you laugh now... I agreed to meet my ex a few months after we'd split because he had something vital to discuss that could only be dealt with face to face.

Guess what he wanted?

To say that even though he wouldn't take me back now, that If I wanted to still sleep with him he'd be ok with that :o

I think my response was something like, "oh god no!" As I spat my tea out with laughter!

So prepare yourself for anything!

Hahahahaa!

Oh my god! the cheek of him!

I texted H earlier as he has trying to get in touch with my youngest to see how she is doing which has been totally ignored being on the playstation is far more important to say that she wanted to stay over his again Friday night.

To the Friday night thing "that's fine but its a shame really as we need to talk"

My response to that "we have needed to talk for a long long time H"

H "I know, I miss you all and want to make it work again. I know there is a huge amount to do though"

Obviously this is what he wants to discuss. If any one of the "huge amount of things to do" involves me doing anything, he is going to get a big fat BEGONE!

Is there anything you want to ask of him, Steve? Like time without being pestered? Or him to sort himself out for his own sake (not to win you back)?

I do wish you'd tell him there's no hope at all, but I don't think you're quite there yet, and I don't want to be someone else telling you what to do! :)

You're perfect just the way you are.

chris I know.. I have stalled on this one thing and I am not wholly sure why to be honest. I think he deserves to know but I don't know where he is at right now. I don't know exactly what he thinks is going to help fix this mess as I sure as hell cannot see anything.

I'd like to leave this relationship on good terms though, if possible. Thats all I do know.

Thank you for such a lovely comment, I am far from perfect I really am

Sorry I didn't answer your question "is there anything I want to ask of him"

No, not really

Maybe I should ask for some space?

(sorry for multi-posts, I am thinking)

Do you really need to meet with him?

It seems a bit soon, you are just starting to settle

You don't want to ask anything of him because you don't need anything other than less contact.

Can I admit something? When I first left I hoped we could still be friends. I bent over backwards to try to make things easier and ignored so much. It wasn't long before that became impossible. He had treated me so badly. With some space to come to terms with it all the truth about what he'd done finally hit me. Which was hard, but it helped me protect myself for when he turned nasty (which of course he did).

I now have no contact at all, it's great. Even discussions about the DCs go through a third party (so he's carefully polite!).

Don't be afraid to change your mind about anything. Be careful to do things for you, and not to keep him sweet. You can carry on walking on eggshells without noticing you are.

christina I actually don't really want to. The whole thing still smarts. I still ask myself why didn't he bugger off for a separation period instead of leaving me no choice but to leave with my girls, set up an entirely new home for us all, inclusive of having to buy a new toaster and other random (but quirky and lovingly mismatched) bits of furniture.

I think I am just intrigued. I want to know what he has to say but I am in no hurry to hear it to be fair. We are seeing him on Saturday anyway, picking up our baby's ashes from the crematorium and planting a tree for her.

chris thank you again. I do want to part on good terms but I really am not prepared to make any concessions to make that happen. I want my youngest to want to go to his like she does right now, she is happy doing this and I encourage it, probably gives him some focus too.

I have seen how nasty he can be, I am ready for it. From the safety of my new lovely home with me and my girls. He doesn't know my address as I have kept it from him. I had an email from council tax not long after we moved in, he had informed them we had gone and given them my email address as a point of contact as he didn't have the postal one. He moved very very quickly on this.

Have read more than enough threads here to know to be careful and sensible about this. I am not complacent enough to think there wont be something that will have me on a back foot though.

You are very together.

Could you practise saying, "I'm not actually at a stage where I want to discuss things. It would mean a lot to me if you could wait until I'm ready."

Bet he doesn't wait.

you can carry on being enthusiastic about dd's relationship with him, without being a part of it.

I think I'm giving advice when you already know it, but why meet with him if you don't want to? It's all about you and your DDs now, you come first :)

You sound as if you are in such a good place

I bet it is driving him nuts!

Chris Yes, you are right and I really don't feel ready yet. I'll get practising.

For one thing I have too many work deadlines going on right now.

Youngest has just announced by the way that "she will go to his this Thursday, as she wants to spend the weekend at home with us. Then after that it is going to be like she spends every other weekend with him from Friday to Sunday" (her wording, before the grammar police come for me)

This girl is so bloody sorted out isn't she, I admire her!

Now means I am free Friday night though, however, I have a horrendous day in my work diary I can use as an excuse not to do anything. I WILL genuinely want to just go home, get my bra off and comfy clothes on, drink a few glasses of vino collapso and MN before crashing out before our planting tree day on Saturday!

You lovely people who keep coming back to my thread to support me, you are truly wonderful and I thank you so very much XX

You know, one thing to consider is that counseling can serve to 'ease someone out' of a relationship as well as to try and save it. If he isn't willing to accept that you are done, if he wants to try counseling (again!), there's no reason that you can't use that to help him accept that you are done and there's no 'saving' anything. It can also be used to build a good co-parenting relationship. That being said, I'd leave it 100% up to him to organize it.

To be honest, when DH and I started counseling I told the counselor during our 'private' session (she saw us separately once) that I really wasn't sure whether I wanted to stay or not. She was very good about keeping that to herself and guiding the sessions without my feeling pressured either way. DH to this day has no idea exactly how close he came to losing me. Ultimately, we worked things out but that isn't always right for everyone.

As far as Friday, you don't need to be committal. He has no right to demand answers (or anything else) from you. Chris's answer "I'm not ready, etc" is spot on. It may not stop him yapping away, but that doesn't mean you have to give him any answers.

across I was thinking of counselling for this purpose, perhaps to help him come to terms with things...I don't really know? either way he still hasn't set anything up yet.

Exchanged a some texts this evening. He sent me one yesterday asking if I wanted to set a date for us to meet. I didn't respond yesterday but earlier I sent him a generic, "apologies, wasn't ignoring you" kind of text back asking him to email me his thoughts about what needs to be discussed. Stating I was particularly interested in the "huge amounts to do" comment.

His response to that was he has just turned the PC off, can he call me?

My response "Is rather you email me, talking, for us, causes problems"

He says then "ok"
Then immediately afterwards "One question I have is this: do you want us to be together and happy again"

My response "I don't know if I want us to be together again"

He says to this "I want us to be together. But there is no point in trying to sort it out unless both of us want to make it work. Maybe you just need more time to make a decision, after all its not been long since we parted. All I know is we need relationship counselling and sex therapy - more me on the latter I believe. Was thinking we could start dating whilst we are apart?"

I genuinely, honestly don't know how to respond to this. Have typed out and deleted a hundred replies already. None of them positive.

Need your help again people please?

You don't need to say or do anything just now, for the immediate future you just need to concentrate on being you, being happy and finding ou what you want

I would ask him not to contact you for a month

The thought of "dating" him horrifies me

I really cant

I have just read your opening post again...he was very accusatory and blamed you for everything....why would he want that back in his life then?

Be very careful Steve...you are in your own home no so should be free...but he is finding his way into your space...set your boundaries, you need them to feel secure