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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
Miggsie · 24/02/2015 10:05

Agree - you'll spend 20 years washing his pants while he tells you he is too clever to bother with that and then he'll complain you're no fun - because all you do is housework.

Having kids makes it about 200 times worse.

And he won't change - he's actually baiting you - keep a chart of how long it takes him to backslide, it will be about 6 weeks I'd guess. He doesn't see you as equal - you are the skivvy and he isn't and he feel entitled to live off all the unpaid work you do.

Suzannewithaplan · 24/02/2015 10:19

all the time he is fine tuning his techniques, getting a feel for just how far he can push you and just what he can get away with.

With the arrival of children he will see his power grow exponentially as you become so much easier to control because now you have no leverage at all, if you dont do the wife work the children will suffer and that will allow him to get away with so much more.

BathtimeFunkster · 24/02/2015 10:31

Yes, he's very keen to get you out of a house that is yours.

If this is how little respect he has for your time and space when he's living in your house, I dread to think how little respect he'll show you once he's got his name on the deeds.

Why do you imagine his mother married his father?

Hint: he probably was beligerant and openly disrespectful before he got his feet firmly under the table.

Also - I can't believe you buy that guff about how he is intimidated by you! Grin

Come on, you are so obviously smitten by him. You don't appear to think you are his equal, never mind him, so there is no way that is true.

It's just manipulative flattery designed to keep you doing all the work.

BathtimeFunkster · 24/02/2015 10:33

He probably wasn't beligerant in the early days. Might have been charm personified.

All her friends and family might have thought she was onto a great thing.

But they were wrong.

Twinklestein · 24/02/2015 11:20

Excellent post from ChickenSituation

And I think springydaffs is right to highlight the implications of having a coffee asked to go shopping. That was intentional sabotage rather than ditsiness. If I did that my husband would be furious. It's a very odd thing to do.

He's basically mounting a little campaign of resistance and sabotage to all the OP's plans. If he does that about kids, he will be a nightmare.

Twinklestein · 24/02/2015 11:26

I've no doubt the OP will go ahead because a) she's in love with him b) at 36 she needs to get on with having kids & c) she doesn't really know what we're talking about and hopes he will make a good dad regardless.

She may have the legitimate concern that if she ended it she may not find someone else suitable within her fertility window.

So in her situation I would advise the opposite of what I would normally do: call off the wedding, have a child with him, and see if he steps up. If he doesn't and she can't co-parent with him, then at least she got her kid, but she's not married and she won't lose her house.

Joysmum · 24/02/2015 11:29

OP is hearing what we have to say, but not really LISTENING

I think that's unfair.

In any relationship you need to go through a process to sort out things that are issues and feel like you've tried everything to solve those issues before you call it a day.

She's simply not reached the stage where she feels there's no hope left of him changing as she's the one who's in the relationship.

Suzannewithaplan · 24/02/2015 11:31

so hard to be pragmatic when you're in luuuurve!

Suzannewithaplan · 24/02/2015 11:32

and the clock is ticking....

UndecidedNow · 24/02/2015 11:36

OP I roukd be very careful on taking any decisions based on what people are telling you on this thread.

People change but if you want someone to change in a way that suits YOU then it's a completely different ball game.

I would be very careful re your comment about your DF avoiding telling you things because he us worried it will become an argument.
You are already wearing the trousers in the relationship. How do you think your DF feels if he is at the point of not mentioning things as he is afraid of your reaction??

I personally would hate to have someone on my back all the time telling me to tidy up and what to do (with the TV, with smoking etc). I would end up feeling that I'm getting 'controlled'.

rosepetalsoup · 24/02/2015 11:37

So in her situation I would advise the opposite of what I would normally do: call off the wedding, have a child with him, and see if he steps up. If he doesn't and she can't co-parent with him, then at least she got her kid, but she's not married and she won't lose her house.

Twinklestein has a fairly good suggestion.

QuintessentiallyInShade · 24/02/2015 11:54

I had not clocked on to how nasty and manipulative he is, in addition to being lazy and messy.

I bet you that he will bolls it up with ruined dinners, or just not cooking enough for two, or something, if you "put him in charge" of dinners. Just to show you. And to teach you that HE will not cook.

His passive aggressiveness alone is reason to cancel the wedding and pay attention to all the red flags.

Twinklestein · 24/02/2015 11:54

I agree with Joy - I don't get the impression that the OP's not listening. I think she is. But she's busy, she's got a lot to take on, and we all may be wrong.

I'm not sure she's found a way to get through to him yet, but I don't think that's her fault, I think he doesn't really want to take on board what she's saying.

Also - nobody knows how hard having kids is until you do it - people told me but I thought they were exaggerating. Ha.

ShowYourVeracity · 24/02/2015 11:56

OP I think you are in difficult situation but I think you need to decide - do you want the type of marriage where you help each other achieve what you want in life?

This is what my OH does - he listens to what I want in life and he tries to help me achieve it, whether its finding the right job, having time for hobbies, keeping well, look after our children. And I do the same for him. Some times our aims don't agree for a while, so we think and talk and eventually sort out something that suits us both, but we are both thinking of what will make the other happy, not just what we want.

madeinkent · 24/02/2015 12:07

I only just found this, and immediately recognised DBH. Not only DBH, but DS, who was diagnosed as having mild autism. DD isn't much better. So at one point I nearly went mad, but the fact is, you can't change them, they can't change themselves. As for the memory - they don't have one. DS has been diagnosed as having short term memory loss, this means that he has had to train himself to do any chores right then, he can't put them off. He is at uni and I still have to know about his most important appointments and check that he has them in his phone. I am, in effect, my family's office manager.

They are all perfectly happy to do the work, but they don't ever think of it off their own bat. Is that like your OH? Also, they don't care what anyone else thinks of the mess, ie visitors. I now understand how MiL can be as she is - she buys bigger and bigger houses to contain all her rubbish, and FiL runs around trying to keep on top of it. So if your OH is a hoarder as well - beware. DS says that the only way he will ever manage to live on his own is in a bedsit, because then he knows he will have to sort it out on occasion.

Just please, please don't take it personally. If your OH is like mine, it isn't meant that way at all. I have bought a robotic vacuum cleaner - at least that has kept him from leaving stuff on the floor.

DBH is also a wonderful cook. For his 40th I booked him a cookery course at the Prue Leith school, he was so excited - but most of it was on kitchen hygiene and clearing up. Grin Because I used to cry after one of his cooking sessions. It would take the whole of Sunday to clean the kitchen afterwards. I still love him, after 21 years, though. I just had to accept him as he is.

BathtimeFunkster · 24/02/2015 12:10

I think there is some merit in Twinklestein's advice to have a baby and not get married.

I think you also have the option of asking him to move out and maintain a separate household - his response will tell you a lot about whether you are right that he doesn't expect you to be his household appliance.

Given his previous flatshare arrangement, it's clear he enjoys bring mithered and nagged by women who are exasperated by him but buy into the ridiculous idea that incompetence and laziness is a sign of anything other than incompetence and laziness.

LakeAmber · 24/02/2015 12:15

There is ASD in my DP's family and I'm fairly sure that has some impact on our situation. However, it's important to separate out what someone can and can't do, what they find really hard etc., from the issue of respect. Someone who respects you will work with you to figure out a system where everyone can play to their strengths and the work will be equally shared. This is the crux. If your fiance doesn't want to make life easier and fairer for you, as best he can, even taking his difficulties into account, you have a problem.

aftereight · 24/02/2015 12:20

OP, the "eye wateringly huge" amount of money you would lose by cancelling postponing your wedding now pales into insignificance when compared to the amount of money that you personally would lose should you later divorce i.e. half of your home's value.
Twinklestein made the suggestion of children but no marriage. That would be a very sensible move imo.

bumblingbovine49 · 24/02/2015 12:23

This applies to DH except he did become house trained but he did it himself as he saw how much happier I was when the house was under some sort of control . I didn't make him do anything, though we did argue a bit about it at first. He is not at all immature or narcissistic but he really is so unconcerned with outer appearances that it can be quite bewildering to me sometimes. Early in our relationship I asked him where he kept his mop and sweeping brush in his flat and he said he didn't know but that he had only been there 6 months! Cleaning the floor was obviously a yearly task!

HOWEVER and this is a really big one, he has changed over time. He does make a real effort. He still doesn't notice much but we have a system of lists and chore cards that he uses and really does quite a lot of cleaning etc now. If is on the list he does it whether it needs doing or not Hmm. That is how he works. He is responsible for all shopping and food planning though we share the cooking. I sometimes don't always approve of the food he plans but I have had to learn to decide myself if I want to share my life with someone and what is deal breaker. This means compromises for me as well as him.

You partner does not seem to want to change much. Dh has made a big effort over the years and I have lowered my standards. We still bicker a bit about it but it really is a minor niggle in an otherwise very good relationship. Dh is also actually very well organised at work and administratively. He is not scatty at all. Just places no importance on the appearance of things. This means when we had DS he pulled his weight a lot with regards to organising things and doing school stuff etc. Being untidy/uninterested in clothes, tidying & cleaning is not the same as being disorganised.

Dh sometimes still fantaisises I think about a time when he can retire and live in a tiny hut surrounded by books and squalor. I tell him he did this when young and he was studying for his PHd so he had his dream life already. Now he has his real life to live [big grin]. Seriously though DH does miss some of the things about his old life and doesn't really see the need to be as tidy and clean as I want things but he thinks our life together as a family is worth changing himself for.

MrsJohnLewis · 24/02/2015 12:38

Have a baby with him if you want but don't marry him. It doesn't sound like he's bringing anything to the table in terms of support or teamwork, so don't reward him with half your assets.

I too am reading his behaviour as very passive aggressive.

Terrified of confrontation, shutting you down, shirking responsibility, while at the same time staging little dirty protests all over your house.

You feel like you love him now. But this will make you hate him. Guarantee it.

lotsofcheese · 24/02/2015 12:39

I didn't mean to be harsh; I think it's just too much of an emotional leap for OP to be fully understanding of her DP & his behaviour - certainly not ending the relationship.

bringmejoy2015 · 24/02/2015 13:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MillyMollyMandy78 · 24/02/2015 13:02

MyLife - i recognise a LOT of my DH in your passive aggressive post. Where is all that info from? Would like to read more as very helpful. Also, what is the advice re dealing with a passive aggressive partner. My husband is mostly a king, loving man and i very much want to be with him, but would like more info re dealing with the PA shit that sneaks in. It is definately much better than it used to be, but keen to learn more

LakeAmber · 24/02/2015 13:50

I agree that it's not necessarily conscious, even if there is a lot of extremely disrespectful and PA behaviour going on. People with childhood issues (and I count myself among them, coming from a v dysfunctional background) sometimes need to have the way they react pointed out to them. They may be simply coping in the ways they have learned or selfishly trying to avoid the things they find alarming. Which is not an excuse – no one should stand for bad behaviour –but I think some people can genuinely fail to realise how badly their behaviour impacts on others and can change when they do realise. This man obviously needs to be put to that test though, and fast.

Twinklestein · 24/02/2015 13:53

I think it's probably a mixture of conscious and unconscious.

You don't go for a coffee unconsciously when you're supposed to be shopping...