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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
Grapeeatingweirdo · 21/02/2015 17:37

Wow, Daffo. That is uncalled for.

Handywoman · 21/02/2015 17:40

I think Daffo may be a bloke, or childless, or both!!

Biscuit
Daffodilium · 21/02/2015 17:43

I'm just being honest, Grapes. I'm sorry if it sounds harsh. But OP is actually technically nagging him to death. If she proceeded to marry him, her current disappointment in him would quickly turn to disrespect for his apathy, resentment, and the marriage would be an unhappy one for both.

Daffodilium · 21/02/2015 17:43

Neither, Handy.

MonkeySeeMonkeyDooo · 21/02/2015 17:44

If it takes less than 60 seconds to put the bloody bin out, why does he not bloody do it then?

Daffodilium · 21/02/2015 17:47

Because he's bloody apathetic by nature Grin and the OP admitted she knew that before deciding to marry him!

Some women always want to change men into their ideal, when they out to just accept we all have faults .

VinoTime · 21/02/2015 17:51

My dad is one of the most intelligent men I know. His knowledge continues to floor me the older I get. I was sitting down with dd at their house a couple of weeks ago doing some very basic Primary three maths homework with her, when all of a sudden we got stuck on some pronunciation. My dad stepped in to help and spent the next hour speaking in perfect, fluent French. I just sat there blinking at him. When I asked him if he knew any other languages, he just shrugged nonchalantly and said, "German, Latin, some Italian, bit of Spanish, Russian's a bit rusty now..."

I mean, what do you say to that? You could ask my father to intricately describe exactly what materials they used to build the Large Hadron Collider and what purpose they all serve and he'd sit down and casually start explaining it all. He a duddery, 60+ Cockney with a beer gut and buttons popping open on his shirt. He's an insanely intelligent man and genuinely one of the nicest blokes you could ever hope to meet. But you wouldn't think much of the old brain matter if you met him. In fact, I'm pretty sure a lot of folk think my dad's a bit...simple. He's so casual about his intellect that he can have you stuttering and stumbling over your words because you've been underestimating him the whole time you've known him.

But he doesn't give a shit - he'd wear his pj's to work if he thought for a minute that he could get away with it. He's messy, forgetful, doesn't care what anybody thinks of him and he drives my poor mother to distraction. My dad would use every pot, pan and utensil in the kitchen to cook a small bowl of pasta. And he'd walk away and leave the mess. The only reason he has ironed shirts for work is because my mum irons them for him. And she only irons them because she needs him to keep this job for a couple more years so that he can retire on a nice pension, buy a boat with his lump sum and fuck off out her house for a bit every day and leave her in peace.

He does nothing in the house or garden. My mum has spent her whole life nagging him (without meaning or wanting to). He's quite happy to live in a shithole. He doesn't see mess or dirt. He doesn't care about his appearance. He's made my wonderful mother miserable. She is so worn down by him. And she battles with herself everyday because she's desperate to leave him, but he's such a nice, friendly man who would give her anything she asked for that she'd feel so fucking guilty leaving that she convinces herself it's better just to stay. If my mum called my dad in two minutes time asking him to go pick something up for her 300 miles away - he'd do it without question. He'd just jump in the car and go. If she asked him to load the dishwasher? Meh.

"I'll do it later, love."

I couldn't live with someone like that, OP. I've seen what it's done to my mum and I am never going there. I'm nobody's skivvy. And when you are faced with the mess every single day, the resentment just keeps on bubbling away. There's a deep seated part of my mum that loathes my dad. And he's clueless. He doesn't see a problem. It's not healthy. It does not a good relationship make.

Think very carefully about your future with this man. Because the reality is: If you aren't willing to make the necessary changes, whatever they may be, you really can't moan about it later - it's been of your doing/choosing to continue the relationship when you could have walked away and saved yourself a lifetime of perpetual misery.

lucymam · 21/02/2015 17:51

I agree that the OP should not waste energy trying to change him. Instead she should not marry him. Life is to short to live like this.

MonkeySeeMonkeyDooo · 21/02/2015 18:09

You say you think he wants children or you think he likes the idea of them.

Have you actually discussed this? Do you know for sure or are you just hoping he will once you're married? Please don't marry a man who wants the opposite to what you do and hope he'll change his mind.

GallicIsCharlie · 21/02/2015 18:43

What a beautiful post, Vino Thanks

Here's hoping Fedup can hear you, and wishing your mother her time in the sun.

prettywhiteguitar · 21/02/2015 19:04

It sounds exhausting, I would marry him if you accept he will never change and you are happy with that.

He's telling you loud and clear who he is, listen......

As for having kids with him I would again only do it if he pays for help, the help he will never give you willingly. Skint would have to be an au pair and cleaner, it's very hard doing everything for a baby on your own with no practical help, it also erodes any erotic love you have for someone, I know, it happened to me.

prettywhiteguitar · 21/02/2015 19:06

That is erotic love ie; fancying someone and also that deep love you have where true respect comes from.

Don't have kids with him

prettywhiteguitar · 21/02/2015 19:07

Skint ? I mean that !

Bluestocking · 21/02/2015 19:18

I know this isn't really relevant to the thread, Vino, but why did your dad spend an hour speaking French to a child who was trying to do Maths homework?

rosepetalsoup · 21/02/2015 19:44

Haha! Bluestocking I wondered the same thing

Twinklestein · 21/02/2015 19:48

I inferred the child's father may be French? (Perhaps because my husband is)

I wondered why the OP didn't already know what languages her father speaks.

bringmejoy2015 · 21/02/2015 20:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AWholeLottaNosy · 21/02/2015 20:42

Such a hard dilemma for you OP, I really feel for you. However,,despite all his good qualities you are essentially living with a man child, a teenager who hasn't grown up. It's very very hard for people to change, in fact they rarely do. The only 2 things that motivate people to change is if they see a benefit to themselves or there is going to be a big loss. There is no benefit to him in changing and as he has got by in life so far, why would he? The only thing that MIGHT motivate him is the loss of the relationship but if his passive aggressive behaviour is so entrenched then even that might not be enough. Can you live with that?

Would he consider going to couples counselling with you as a precondition of you getting married? I really really think you need to iron out these differences BEFORE you tie the knot as it will be too late after the wedding and you have a lot more to lose than he does.

Suzannewithaplan · 21/02/2015 21:40

these intelligent but useless men
I cant see much thats clever in a person who cant manage to do basic things like organizing their living space and eating properly?

I wonder what would actually become of them if they lived alone with no one willing to mother them?
Would they end up malnourished in chaos and squalor?

AWholeLottaNosy · 21/02/2015 21:47

No they'd find some poor sap to look after them...

Suzannewithaplan · 21/02/2015 21:48

Vino, it sounds as if your dad has designed a strategy to deliberately and precisely mess with your poor mums sanity.
Except it cant be because he's so kind he would never deliberately upset her.

Perhaps it's the perfect crime, he gets away with it because no one would believe that a kind person would be cruel

TheBug · 21/02/2015 21:51

The thread kind of took off, didn't it? A huge response and quite a consensus that this issue can mess up a relationship.

For what it's worth, DP actually does loads. I don't think he regards housework as my (/women's) work and he's not a Disney Dad either; indeed, this evening he cheerfully dealt with with the mess when the baby threw up.

But it's the remembering, organising, planning, reminding/nagging etc falling to me that is most wearing. I don't want to have to micromanage to ensure the wheels don't fall off. I don't like how that role makes me feel.

OP, why not show him the thread and see how he responds? If he seems genuinely concerned, that's something. If he rolls his eyes, well...

Suzannewithaplan · 21/02/2015 21:51

No they'd find some poor sap to look after them...

maybe when he's young, but if his strategy doesnt quite work, he doesnt quite manage to control her and grind her down in just the right way and the poor sap see's the light..

she'll be off like a bat out of hell and he'll have no boyish charm to rely on

No one wants a useless old bloke

AWholeLottaNosy · 21/02/2015 22:06

The only experience I've had with men like this is with men who pretended like they couldn't cook and when they did, they did it so badly that I ended up doing it. ( and this was a conscious strategy on their part)!However I know that in future relationships they somehow learnt how to do it. If you have a useful division of labour in a relationship then that's fine, eg, is be happy to cook all the time if the guy did DIY etc, but I don't see in your relationship what the trade off is? What are you getting in return from you doing all the housework??

Unless you are both prepared to get a cleaner, who will also iron etc, I can't see this getting any better. He is clearly not willing to step up to the plate and it will get 100% worse after you have kids as many, many mums have told you...

ozymandiusking · 21/02/2015 22:07

Cancel the wedding. If you are so desperate for a baby, don't marry him you don't need him. Go to a clinic find a doner and have a baby that way.
I can tell you now, you will end up divorcing and then loose half your house to him, and why the hell should he have that!