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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
PoppyField · 21/02/2015 10:11

Morning OP,

I should be doing something else e.g. getting my kids dressed and out of the house! - but I thought I'd check in here (she says, somewhat addicted). I think you have got a seriously unusual number of responses because your timeline is very much in the 'before' phase. You teetering 'live' on the horns of the dilemma and it is very intriguing for those of us that don't have actually to live your life. I do think that he will get worse - and that is the general consensus here. That is what the majority of posters foresee - so it's not pleasant. I think most of us think that the marriage will be the point of no return on this one, so we are all hoping that this doesn't happen to you. So, that's my selfish interest accounted for!

I think you are very aware of the possibilities and you have a good analysis of your position. And it is excruciating, because although I am sure he has many nice qualities, this question may come to overwhelm the love you feel for him. For what it's worth, I think you are entirely reasonable and I don't think it sounds like you have ludicrous standards of cleanliness etc.

Hope you have a nice day with your friend.

MonkeySeeMonkeyDooo · 21/02/2015 10:12

The fact that he's quite capable of choosing food and cooking for guests shows that he can do it but he chooses not to. Instead it's easier to say he doesn't care and get you to do it. Cooking for guests is all a big show, look how wonderful I am. No one will know that actually he's a lazy slob.

Have you heard of the Disney Dad OP? The one that does all the fun stuff but leaves the reality of having children, the clearing up etc to the woman. Don't underestimate how tired you'll be with a newborn, being up all night and feeding. What about if you have a c-section and can't physically lift things or drive? What about if you have an extended hospital stay and come home to a shit tip? If he's still not pulling his weight this will tip over into steaming resentment. Made worse by the fact that he won't listen to you, and walk off.

He doesn't care about your feelings, he has no desire to listen to you, shown by this passive aggressive walking off. Your feelings are unimportant.

I wonder if when you're on maternity leave how things will play out. You won't have time to do all the mountains of housework and picking up after him as you do now. You'll barely have time to think about cooking. You won't be ironing his clothes, and why the hell should you be anyway? He doesn't even care if he loses his job. That's how ridiculous he is. Have you got him on some sort of pedalstool?

In a few years when you've got DC and he's still doing fuck all, you'll hate him. And he won't give a shit, because he doesn't already.

Suzannewithaplan · 21/02/2015 10:25

?Mylifepart2, thanks for the link that article really does resonate with me!

I live alone now, it's bliss, wild horses wouldn't drag me back to cohabitation. ?

Jackiebrambles · 21/02/2015 10:34

Op I'm not sure him giving up smoking before you marry is likely when his nicotine cravings are such that he gets stressed trying to work out how to work a vaper thing!

Suzannewithaplan · 21/02/2015 10:35

'Her life is in continual uproar as she mulls over the inconsistencies in daily events'

^A quote from said article, and this is the thing, it takes over, so much mental energy is devoted to this problem trying to make sense of it and work out what's going on, who is right who is wrong.

SadieSimmons · 21/02/2015 10:50

OP there is absolutely nothing you can do to change his attitude. Nothing.

Only you can change what you do about it.

You are here posting about it so my guess is it's not just 1% anymore. How did you feel about it a year ago compared to now? How do you think you will feel one year from now?

Only if you are prepared to accept that this is how it will be forever, as well as the probability that it will get worse after children should you go ahead with this marriage.

He will not change because he does not care - not just about his messiness but how it affects you and the impact on the relationship.

Take it or leave it as that you can decide on.

Handywoman · 21/02/2015 10:52

So the real reason you cook 5-6 times a week is because actually he would happily live on creme eggs (ie he doesn't give a monkeys about how you feel about that either)?

OP please give yourself and him a wake up call. This is all looking really bad for having kids. You will end up doing everything.

If he works with kids yet you think he doesn't really realize what's involved with parenting - then crikey how intelligent is he really??????

I am genuinely, genuinely Shock

This loveable, absent-minded professor act is just that - and act. He is immature, entitled and passive-agressive. He fundamentally sees mundane life/housework as your job.

I do wish you well, OP, you do sound intelligent.

I hope you can draw a line in the sand here.

MillyMollyMandy78 · 21/02/2015 11:10

I agree with many of the posts here. This is not about 1% of him, or your life. Did you know that differences/ resentments about housework is the second most common reason for divorce (after finances)? Thats because it is not just about who does the dishes - the lack of respect will seep into every moment you spend together. It will affect your confidence, self worth, and whole relationship. It is demeening to be treated like his skivvy and to watch him unapologetically destroy your posessions and your home. It will become completely draining and soul-destroying. And as others said he is at the very extreme in his slovenly ways: the cigarette butts, for example. And, things will get much worse, especially with children. I dont envy you having to make a decision, but i only hope you are happy in the future! Good luck!

lucymam · 21/02/2015 11:23

You are not compatible. My mother said never to marry someone when you thought...if only they didn't do that/were like that...

mayaknew · 21/02/2015 11:29

Apart from the smoking you could easily have been writing about my dh Sad no advice sorry I'm still fighting this battle Sad

MonkeySeeMonkeyDooo · 21/02/2015 11:43

Think about what life will be like when you have DCs, bearing in mind he's not bothered about mess already.

When you've spent the entire night feeding, you're exhausted and he's gone to work and left his mess everywhere for you to clear up.

When you're potty training and there's accidents on the carpet, will he clear them up?

When you're weaning and food is going everywhere, and trust me it can! Will he care?

What about if you want to go out and you come back, will you find the DC in shitty nappies and being fed a lunch of biscuits?

Will he be cooking dinner when you've got a newborn and clearing up?

Children are exhausting, absolutely amazing but bloody exhausting and non-stop. If you've already got a man child then it's not a good mix. And you won't be able to talk to him about it, because he'll just walk off.

Twinklestein · 21/02/2015 11:46

It's pure minimisation to say that it's only 1% of the relationship.

If that were the case it would be an issue 3.6 days a year.

This is an issue every single day and once you have children it will be an even bigger problem.

lavenderhoney · 21/02/2015 12:18

Tell your friend the truth- that was very good advice from up thread. So instead of perpetuating the myth say " oh it's all show. The moment you leave he'll down tools. In fact, if you weren't here, he wouldn't be doing anything"

One day, when he takes the dc to the park, or does painting- and you have bought the paints or dressed the dc, and he takes them out with the little bag of baby wipes, snacks and drink you have prepared, and brings them back muddy ( probably lost the bag) you'll be the one cleaning up the dc, tidying the paints, getting the bag ready for next time. He will think he's helping you and you should be grateful, whilst he hops onto fb and chills.

You will be resentful of people thinking he's a great dad. Passable babysitter at best, perhaps. Will you maintain how great he is, to everyone and the dc? Whilst doing all the work to make him look good.

lucymam · 21/02/2015 12:21

When you get married, you should be eagerly looking forward to your married life together. To go into a marriage with such a big issue unresolved, is a recipe for divorce.

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 21/02/2015 13:05

His lack of respect for you is astounding. He lives in your house but he can't even keep his smoking out-of-doors and litters the back garden with his filthy butts. You asked him to be tidy but he's just carried on, regardless. He's telling you loud-and-clear precisely what he thinks of you and yours: he doesn't give a damn so you need to suck it up and shut the fuck up about it.

I don't know why you give this bloody slob house-room, never mind are considering getting hitched to him. If you think he's bad now wait until he thinks he's got you trapped with kids in tow.

ImperialBlether · 21/02/2015 13:13

OP, have you ever heard the expression "charmed the pants off her"? That's what he's doing to you.

If you hadn't met him and someone asked you how you wanted to live, you'd presumably say:

  • with someone who respected your creativity and not only accepted but promoted your opportunities to be creative
  • who was creative himself, but not at a cost to your happiness
  • who was respectful of you and your belongings
  • who was as caring to you as you want to be to him

I think part of the problem is that everyone he knows likes him. As you say your friends who lived with him 'put up' with his messiness but still love him. That might be easier in a group situation where clearing up his mess was done by the group, but it's far less attractive when only one person has to clear it up.

Wherever there is a charismatic man, there's often a downtrodden wife who is enabling his charisma.

bringmejoy2015 · 21/02/2015 13:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBlessedCheesemaker · 21/02/2015 13:39

Not a sarky question, but a genuine one..... Why are you getting married? Why are you ploughing shedloads of money into it? It won't make you any happier, and will almost certainly make you feel trapped at some stage. Do you need to prove your love to everyone? Are you deeply religious? Are all your friends doing it?

Seriously, you don't need to do it. Your relationship is totally one-sided and you are currently contorting yourself to fit in with the person he is, whilst he is doing fuck-all relationship building on his part. Why do it? You're clever, presumably have plenty of self esteem and don't need to be married so why spend your energy on going through with it when you could be sorting out your relationship instead. Starting with asking him the question as to how fucking dare he chill out whilst you are tidying around him?

You wouldn't accept it his behaviour from a female housemate, so why take it from someone who purports to love you?

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 21/02/2015 14:51

OP in light of the recurring (and important) message that it's not the mess per se, but the lack of respect he has for you, I have copied a section from your first post.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived.

For everyone saying, talk to him, tell him how it makes you feel etc - you have already done this and he doesn't care.

This is how it is. This is how he is. He will not make the effort.

You have to decide to take it or leave it.

VioletMoon4683 · 21/02/2015 16:01

By nature I am a messy pup. However a mass severe declutter inspired by this lady (see link) has meant our house is easier to keep on top of.

psychologies.co.uk/self/10-tips-to-make-you-more-tidy-and-organised-now.html

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 21/02/2015 16:08

*"For everyone saying, talk to him, tell him how it makes you feel etc - you have already done this and he doesn't care.

This is how it is. This is how he is. He will not make the effort.

You have to decide to take it or leave it."*

^This. A thousand times this.^

I wouldn't tolerate being treated with such disrespect. And in my own house, too. Fuck him. Get rid!

Twinklestein · 21/02/2015 16:13

I think she's tried many times to talk to him, but I don't get the impression she's given him an ultimatum yet.

I would try sitting him down and say that he has totally disrespected and ignored all her previous attempts to get through to him. That the marriage is off unless he can prove he can pull his weight 50:50 and that he actually understands what it takes to make adult relationships work.

If that doesn't work she has to accept he will never change.

VioletMoon4683 · 21/02/2015 17:05

If the house is very cluttered, which it sounds like it is, it will be hard to keep in order unless you get rid of loads.

AWholeLottaNosy · 21/02/2015 17:23

There's a current thread in relationships which when I read it, I thought, this could be you in the future! Please have a read and think carefully....

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2275725-Anyone-else-end-up-as-an-angry-banshee-after-living-with-Mr-Nice-passive-irresponsible

Daffodilium · 21/02/2015 17:35

I'm sorry, but you sound like a such a nag!

If I was a man, I just wouldn't be able to go ahead with a marriage wth the prospect of my potential wife actually giving me daily grief about banal things like hanging her jumper up properly, or putting the flaming bins out.

He already sounds all lethargic about it and like a petulant son who doesn't want to do as Mummy requested.

Life is just too short to spend it trying mould your fiancé into your domestic servant. If he doesn't pull his weight with shared household chores, either live with it and do it yourself - what does it take, less than 60 seconds to put a bin out? - or enjoy a marriage full of tension, resentment and nagging. You already said you knew what he was like. It's one of his foibles. It's not really that big a deal, is it, if you think about it.