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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
VioletMoon4683 · 21/02/2015 00:05

In fact can you show DH this thread. I know he thinks very little of mumsnetters but maybe he might reflect a little? If he really cares about how you feel, he will try and resolve the issue.

TopOfTheCliff · 21/02/2015 00:08

If MN had been around when I met my XH I would never have married him. He is the creative genius who goes to interviews in odd shoes and leaves a trail of chaos behind him. He is seriously successful and between us we made a good life and set ourselves up financially. We also had 3 DC who are bright and happy and doing well. But after 27 years together I had had enough of the thoughtlessness and the disrespect and the PA forgetting so I left. Maybe that was a successful marriage in many eyes but he killed my love in a thousand tiny disappointing ways.
Funnily my clever DD1 is the same as him, lovely but impossible! The other DC are like me, organised and thoughtful. Hmm, maybe it is a genetic thing?
Don't do it OP. Find someone who cares enough about these things too.

VioletMoon4683 · 21/02/2015 00:15

Another alternative would be to ask him to leave. Say that you are unhappy with the present situation in which you cook and clean after him.

VioletMoon4683 · 21/02/2015 00:18

Or just say you want to take some steps backwards and live separately but still date. Explain that things aren't how you expected they would be and you feel disappointed. You hoped for a partner

bunchoffives · 21/02/2015 00:23

Is he really intelligent OP?

He is either intelligent and therefore has the insight into the effect his inadequacies are having on you... (unless there's company when he suddenly morphs into mr considerate)

or he has no insight and ergo is a bit of thick shit...

or am I missing some manipulation thing?

cerealqueen · 21/02/2015 00:29

He works, has a job, holds it down and behaves to the standards expected of him by his work. Just about. Because he values it as part of his life, it is a reflection of him.

At home, he doesn't do what he should do, because he doesn't believe he has to. He thinks housework devalues him as a person, Deep down, he thinks its your stuff to do as a woman and he 'helps' on occasion. It is ok for it to devalue you, as you are a woman, but not him. You are not alone, so many woman are here. I don't know what to say to help.

VioletMoon4683 · 21/02/2015 00:31

He maybe intelligent but he's bloody selfish by the sounds of it.

TheWindowDonkey · 21/02/2015 00:43

This is my DH. I married him thinking it was just that he was young and would grow out of it. He hasnt...he has improved slightly, but nowhere near enough for me. It gets much harder to tolerate when you have kids and have to nag them as well as him to do everything.
As much as i love my DH, had i known then what I know now its highly probable that I wouldnt have married him. Every time we have been at the brink of splitting it has been over this.
Your dp will never see these things as important, you will never NOT see them as important. This incompatability will destroy much of the respect and love and lust you feel for him, trust me. I stay because of all the good things (also very similar to your Dp's) but I would prefer to be with someone i dont have to 'parent'.

springydaffs · 21/02/2015 00:56

OK, just trying to work it out.

I must say, reading your thread made me want to properly cry. Or run screaming with the fear. And you haven't even been crushed by the whole horror joy of babies yet.

What gets me the most is how dismissive he is of your real pain about this: 'oh don't be so anal' 'it doesn't matter'. It does fucking matter. I don't want to lay it on but I know a couple who have divorced precisely bcs of this, only it was the other way around re the wife who was like your fiance.

I don't know if I can put into words the quality of the despair when one lives with someone like this. I am far from a clean freak but just the thought if not only wading through someone's mess as a lifestyle but being resolutely shut down about it makes me feel panicky.

I was going to say, on the other hand, that I'd feel equally panicky if I lived with someone who did chores for 3 hours a day. Is that really necessary? I manage about an hour a week for cleaning - which I suppose doesn't count cooking and eg paperwork - but I live alone now and I'm organised, precisely bcs I am very keen indeed to save myself from unnecessary work. If, however, you are spending those hours clearing up after him and also doing his share then he is indeed stealing your life. That's 21 hours a week.

However, it is I think it is unusual that someone would actually go out wearing odd shoes and not notice until it was pointed out. Perhaps there's an issue there and he is extremely touchy about it, has learnt to live with it by resolutely telling himself it doesn't matter. Then along you come - or anyone - and he is determined to file away your demands and standards in the same place: it's everyone else's fault, they need to chill.

Littleturkish · 21/02/2015 01:01

My ex H was the same- not bothered by his appearance, more important things to worry about, viewed himself as a bit of a maverick who rules shouldn't apply to- the smoking thing exactly the same down to the slowly moving back into the house and then out and then in- as if we were playing some kind of nicotine induced game of Hokey Cokey.

In the end I divorced him- there were lots of issues, I'm really really not tidy and a true procrastinator so we were well matched in that sense BUT I was much younger than you and wanted to have a grown up house that WAS tidy and he did not. In the end I just saw him as a man child, he hated being nagged and withheld physical contact and would refuse to even pay for cleaning products as he saw it as all my job. It drove us apart. I'm so much happier without him, I've remarried and my DH isn't some kind of cleaning God, but we work together and it doesn't bother me at all.

springydaffs · 21/02/2015 01:07

And he has to stop smoking well before the wedding. Introduce him to vaping [convert] if you must. Honestly, do you honestly think he's going to stop smoking. He so isn't!

You say in one of your posts that he panics you might leave him/the relationship may be off. Girl, you have to use that. You'd be a fool not to with so much at stake. I know you're all squashy and loved up at the mo - but you won't always be. If you are tearing out your hair with very real despair now, imagine how you'll be when the tide goes out.

Fedupwithmess · 21/02/2015 01:10

"Perhaps there's an issue there and he is extremely touchy about it, has learnt to live with it by resolutely telling himself it doesn't matter. Then along you come - or anyone - and he is determined to file away your demands and standards in the same place: it's everyone else's fault, they need to chill."

I can't tell you how true that rings...

OP posts:
Fedupwithmess · 21/02/2015 01:12

I bought him a vaper. He can't bloody work out how to use it! See what I mean about not a practical bone in his body....

OP posts:
MelonBallersAreStrange · 21/02/2015 01:14

I will end up clearing up the mess while OH plays on the computer.

Are you practising to be a Mummy Martyr?

"We need to clean this up together. I am not doing it all while you play about on the computer."

MelonBallersAreStrange · 21/02/2015 01:16

You said he walked out when you went nuclear previously. He doesn't like conflict.

Did that tactic work for him? Did you STFU? Did you whispers apologise to him?

MelonBallersAreStrange · 21/02/2015 01:17

I bought him a vaper. He can't bloody work out how to use it! See what I mean about not a practical bone in his body....

No-one is that stupid. I am talking about you.

Fedupwithmess · 21/02/2015 01:20

I bought him a vaper. He couldn't bloody work out how to use it! (In his defence, neither could I) - we tried for hours until he got extremely wound up because he was craving nicotine...

The 3 hours housework a day includes his share of the chores and cooking. I'm honestly not obsessive and don't aspire to live in a show home, just a clean, comfortable home.

Re. the odd shoes to a job interview, they were a similar style and colour (just variations on a theme of black and scuffed) It was only in the light of day after we'd left the house and it was too late for him to turn back and get changed that I realised his shoes didn't match. I honestly don't think he'd have noticed otherwise. Needless to say, he didn't get the job he went for....

OP posts:
MelonBallersAreStrange · 21/02/2015 01:22

I have had Wine

The stupid comment was rude of me. Sorry.

I'm going to bed. DH has tidied the kitchen after dinner (I cooked), put away the food shopping (I bought), put the DC to bed while I was out having Wine with friends earlier, moaned about how he hates hoovering as he hoovered and I tidied DC stuff (I moaned about wiping).

He is extremely intelligent. Extremely. So am I. We both tidy because we have to.

Fedupwithmess · 21/02/2015 01:28

I too have had Wine Melon and now I am too going to bed.

OH bought me the Wine this evening after I had a go at him about the mess!!

He also hoovered, put his clothes away and did the washing up, without specifically being asked. Let's see how long this lasts...

OP posts:
SweetsForMySweet · 21/02/2015 01:30

Don't marry him op, he's a giant man child and you will regret it if you do. If you have children with him, he will be even worse. Stop ignoring the big red flags, they're there for a reason

springydaffs · 21/02/2015 01:31

When I was a student I met a true egg-head (called Gaius) who could barely peel a banana.

But my antennae is bristling a bit about the food shopping thing tonight. Has he bought food before? I am hoping against hope that this isn't reminiscent of my intellectual brain box philosophy graduate husband who, left with clear instructions to put on a wash while I was out at work, chose the 90C cycle and ruined my wedding lingerie. I could smell it when I walked in the door. Aw, I thought, he's one of those, a Gaius. But he wasn't. He did it so I'd never ask him again. Washing is women's work.

Fedupwithmess · 21/02/2015 01:39

Yes, he's bought food before. He'll go to the farmer's market and spend a fortune on stuff for dinner parties, then will quite happily spend the rest of the week living off creme eggs - argh!!

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 21/02/2015 01:41

Honestly? You sound like hard work.

But equally, so does he.

You obviously value your home being clean and tidy, possibly to the point of obsessiveness (just saying...) and he does not. But instead of accepting that you may have to lower your standards, you nag and moan and shout and get stressed.

He is clearly a very kind man who is intelligent but lives in a world where things like matching shoes dont matter. But instead of upping his game he, as my father says, talks a good job but doesnt follow through.

So. Either you find practical ways to deal with this or you split. It really is that simple. Your choices are

You accept this is how he is and buy in outside help (from his portion of your "spends") to pick up his share of the housework,
*You split the jobs according to ability with him doing more cooking as you do more housework etc,
*You accept how he is and lower your standards and follow through,
*He accepts that this is how you are and ups his game and follows through
*You split up.

Pick one.

springydaffs · 21/02/2015 01:41

Then this not looking good OP.

Fedupwithmess · 21/02/2015 01:48

Bogeyface

In an ideal world, option 4, although I think option 1 might be more realistic.

OP posts:
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