Don't think I can do this anymore. Think I need to go NC.

[AbsolutelyKnackered]

In a nutshell I was sexually abused by a sibling from the age of about 8/9 for a couple of years. Sibling was 2.5 years older. Sometimes a cousin was also involved, he was 4 years older (than me). Parents never found out.

I was also borderline abused by a music teacher when I was 10. I quit lessons but never told my parents why. He ended up going to jail for a string of sex attacks on pupils and it was then, after CID seized his 20 year old diaries and contacted my parents (I was then an adult) that I told them.

I have never had a good relationship with my parents, particularly with my mum. Apart from all of the above we are very different and I don't like her very much. She is quite passive aggressive. My father is quite aggressive (not physically but is very tightly wound). However, I have always kept her in my life out of a feeling of obligation etc (yes, am aware of the FOG!).

My own DCs are now the same ages that my brother and I were when things started and I feel like I'm going through PST. I just keep thinking WTF on a constant loop.

I find I am surly with my mum and I know it upsets her but I just cannot bring myself to be any other way. They don't know what I have been through and I cannot tell them. So I am the black sheep and the one who causes problems because I cannot bring myself to play happily families any more - I did that for 20+ years. I am distant and that's the way I want to keep it.

I remember at around age 9 I had really bad IBS and this was investigated at the hospital. I also remember being taken to the doc as I was so skinny. I have only made these links today. I am constantly looking at my own children and thinking HOW COULD YOU NOT THINK SOMETHING WAS WRONG.

I have seen a counsellor about all this. I told DH a few years ago. I told my BF a year ago. It felt good to get it off my chest. I just feel that right now, I cannot have my parents in my life. It's stopping me sleeping and I'm having nightmares. Yet still I cannot tell them why I am distant and angry with them. But I am angry. They did not keep me safe. And I've had to play happy families ever since. And I have. But I don't feel I want to do it anymore.

It's okay to go NC right? Without being able to give them a reason why (to protect them, oh the irony). What happened to me wasn't normal, was it? (I of course also have to live with the extreme shame).

Sorry for the ramble.

I'm glad. Hope your therapy goes well x

Thank you for your kind words mm, Dorothy and Fug.

I do mostly feel strong, and relatively brave in that I know that "coming out" was a massive deal, but actually I had got to the point where it felt the most obvious and essential thing that I needed to do for my sanity. I don't regret it. I have moments where I wonder how my parents are coping etc. They don't have the emotional bandwidth or support to deal with this. They're not the sort of people to see a counsellor etc. But ultimately I could not let that affect my decision because it has been affecting me so much and I had to put myself first for one. Most of all I feel free from the incessant contact and telephone calls. I'm enjoying the peace, for now.

Just wanted to post a quick update. I saw my counsellor today, for the first time in a year. I only disclosed the abuse to her last year before I took a break from seeing her so we'd not discussed it in depth.

She was astounded at my brother's claim of no memory, followed by the contents of his text messages. It was really good to talk to her; we have a connection and I trust her.

She thinks it would be helpful (now that it seems to be the right time to deal with this stuff) to talk about specifics, about what happened, when I'm ready. That feels scary so we will take it easy.

I am going to see her every week.

I jokingly told her I had thought about changing my name. She said some people choose to change one letter in their name and that's got me thinking. I do like a couple of the variations that would give me. I will look into that!

Thanks for all the support.

Hi op, nice to hear your therapy went well.

I would say, if you don't want to go into details about what happened to your therapist you don't have to. I can't see how it would help tbh and might just drag it all up for you.
If you feel ready to, then go for it.

She's right to be shocked at your brother. I think he probably shat himself when you texted him and is just trying to cover his arse sadly.

:( (hippo) not an excuse, but sexually abused child do act on another child. I am thinking both of your brother and cousins were sexually abused by someone too.

It is sad that the parents didn't acknowledge what's going on under their roof and get help.

I have found this thread very distressing. For a number of reasons, not least the awful torture you have been through for so long op xx

I feel I need to say some things that may not sit well with the general course of the thread so far. My daughter was sexually abused by her cousin for years and years. I had absolutely no idea . no idea AT ALL. To say I was shocked (and absolutely devastated) doesn't begin to cover it. I couldn't, and still can't, understand how something so awful could be going on under my own roof and I had no idea , not even an inkling, is deeply, deeply upsetting and unsettling.

My daughter was 19, at uni, when a girl in halls told her about the sexual abuse the girl had suffered from her brother. My daughter supported her friend for months before it finally dawned on her that the same thing had happened to her. That imo indicates how deeply and silently this abuse travels.

You mention 'the times' op. I do think that many here are not appreciating how different the times are now, how we know about this type of abuse now, we know its effects very well. This is relatively recent - back in the day people did not know, it was generally accepted that kids 'played around' and that it was moreorless harmless. This could well have been your mother's thinking when she walked in on you both? These days we are highly alert to this but back then people just weren't. They just weren't.

I had to read your op a number of times, op, bcs I was confused at your anger towards your parents for not protecting you. I felt you were angry, or blaming, the wrong person: it was your brother who did it. I really do understand that you felt, and feel, you were unprotected, I really do. But they didn't know. I didn't know what was happening to my daughter, I had no idea - and, in one sense, neither did she - it took her until she was 19 to realise. Though, sadly, she has very much suffered the effects

I am not the only parent I know to discover that this awful thing was going on right under our noses and we didn't know, or even suspect. That is the horror, that there was absolutely no indication, no 6th sense at all . I am not an unaware sort, and neither are my friends. We are all devastated. It just went right under the radar - for most of us, a very astute radar. It is deeply shocking.

I am therefore not overly surprised to hear that your brother may indeed not remember. Largely, he was the perpetrator: it would not have traumatised him to the same extent as it did you, the victim. He had the power . your texts to him indicate something very serious and he may well be responding to their grave nature. He on the other hand may not, of course, be prepared to face the truth. It is so hard to tell

Sorry, typing on tablet

...my point is that this type of abuse is complex. I feel there may be a lit of projection going on on this thread, which I feel is not helpful to the op her people in her position. This type of abuse needs very careful, professional?, handling. It is certainly a family issue so in that sense I really do appreciate your anger towards your family op.
I come from a toxic family op so I am not pointing fingers here. I am NC with most of my family. However, in the working out and through I have to look at what was down to ignorance and what was malignant; what was learned behaviour, wishful thinking etc etc etc yaddy yaddy yadda. Poisonous families are not necessarily wilfully poisonous. Though, that said, we have to protect ourselves. Just that it is not necessarily black and white.

I feel for so much op. I wish you well xx

I'm sorry about what happened to your daughter spring. I can understand that it must have been a huge shock for you and there are of course moments when my thoughts turn to my parents and I wonder how they are. Being emotionally constipated they won't have the tools to deal with this very well. I have asked them to forgive my brother because I don't want their relationship with him to change (they have always been much closer to him - I was always the black sheep). But I also realise I don't owe them a thing. I have kept up pretences for decades, for the sake of everyone else. Talking to my counsellor I am also defensive of my brother at times. She says I have spent so long protecting him and others in my family. It feels a bit like Stockholm Syndrome I guess.

My abuse happened in the 70s - not recent.

I am angry at my parents and it is justified. Just because you had no knowledge does not mean that my parents didn't at least suspect. Surely each case is different? It would be easy to blame my brother wouldn't it, and absolve my parents of any blame. But what if my brother was also abused? Then what?

I was told my whole life, from a young age, by my parents (my very angry dad and passive aggressive mum) "don't get angry" over and over. My anger was repressed. I never learnt how to deal with it. I am angry with them for many reasons - for example when my ex bf strangled me down a dark country lane and bashed up my car and I literally had no support and affection. There are many other times too.

I spoke to my counsellor yesterday and read her the texts from my brother. His reactions and responses do not suggest that he doesn't remember. His suggestions of going out of his way to meet up etc. are so unbelievably out of character. His response of "no, sorry don't remember, let's meet up" had her open mouthed.

I am sure that some people can repress these memories. Since bringing this to the surface I am sometimes caught unaware with a fleeing memory or feeling which is new to me. But I am certain my brother remembers.

I have been thinking back to the time period and I am pretty certain it started when I was 7. Brother would have been almost 10. Younger than my children. Cousin would have been 12. I look at my sons and wonder how on earth they would even know what to do. I mean, the eldest has seen the sex ed videos at school etc. But I find it odd how my brother knew what he was doing and it does make me question whether he was abused. And possibly the cousin. The last text I sent him was to let him know that I forgave him and that he should move on with his life knowing that. His reply was "thank you, but I still don't know what I've done".

I'm not trying to upset or hurt my family. On the contrary I want them to move on and get over this. I just could not hold on to it any more. It was too much to bear.

Fugg she wants to deal with the guilt and shame I feel for being partly responsible. She thinks she can help me with those thoughts and feelings. I trust her. I travel an hour each way to see her because we have history (I was talking to her for a year when I lived nearer, around all these other parenting issues and hadn't disclosed this abuse). I won't tell her anything I'm not ready to divulge but at the same time I think it will be good to get it all out.

Feature on Womens Hour this very moment about recovering from sexual abuse.

I think your mum definitely knew. She walked in on you and your brother in a compromising situation fgs. Did you miss that part spring?

Sorry what happened to your daughter too, poor thing

NoI didn#t miss that bit, Fugg. See above where I say that this was the belief at the time, in the 70s, that kids 'played around' and that it was healthy, really, though the parents were supposed to chide children who did it re when she said 'I don't know what's going on here but it can stop now' and then walking out. A mother in those days would have felt she had dealt with that situation well, in a modern/enlightened way, by being firm but without going nuts (as would have happened in the 50s, say). In the 70s nobody understood the terrible effects of sexual abuse on children.

Just thought id check in as it's Mother's Day tomorrow and I hope you're ok and not too anxious op

Op I'm so sorry you've been put through this and you have nothing to feel ashamed of, the shame is all theirs. I am trying to stay low contact with my mother who has mentally abused me my whole life for the sake of my lovely dad and my daughter, because ironically my mother loves her in a way she never has me, if it wasn't for them I would be no contact. She is the same, she wouldn't speak to me for 3 weeks when I left university because I was so unhappy there, I had returned home and broke the bombshell and she took to her bed in the next room and said she felt suicidal for 3 weeks. I learnt not to confide in her a long time ago when she'd then tell family and her friends, she goes nuts if I don't phone to see how she is at least every few days, won't speak to me or phone me til I do, I hate being enmeshed, I've just spent £30 on a bouquet of flowers to give her tomorrow but it still won't be enough compared to my rich brother's £60 one, she is only happy with an overly sentimental card with long loving verses about what a wonderful mother she is, complains every year that since I had my dd I don't take her out for lunch and champagne at a posh restaurant she'd chose anymore, nothing will ever be good enough and she has told me she was depressed when I was a baby and because I've got chronic health issues I've worried her sick since I was a child, I was a difficult child she says and she couldn't relate not me. She is messed up and in her mid morning 70's now and I think dementia is also starting to feature so she is getting even worse. My health issues were caused by her not taking me to the hospital when I fell off a horse and as an adult found out my spine had been badly damaged, instead she forced me to play in netball matches and perform in a dance show every night the following week, I've lived with chronic pain and other health issues ever since that were never diagnosed til I went to the doctors myself as an adult. They have a way of making it feel like it's all your fault and there's something wrong with you, to the outside world she looked like a good middle class mother. Sometimes I hate her. I was bullied by my older brother til I was a teenager and she told us both it was normal for siblings as she did it to her younger brother, he finally realised it wasn't normal and I think has felt terribly guilty ever since and tried to make amends, I want our children to grow up together but he and I are not close and never will be. My mother would never let us be, but she complains that we're not. I will go through the motions tomorrow on mothers day for my dad and daughter's sakes but inside I want to scream obscenities at her! I think counselling is important to survive without going mad and if I were you I would go no contact if possible, but do understand it's not that straightforward, I'm sure others have good advice that I don't but I do understand xxx

So sweet of you to think of me fug. I have not sent my mum a card or anything else. I am feeling really very liberated by being NC for now. I am working through things with my wonderful therapist and we have agreed that I need to park my parents for the time being and deal with the other stuff. I know that I need to do this. I don't know if we will ever reconcile but I am not thinking that far ahead. I am just enjoying the peace and not having the phone calls etc. and I am taking this time for ME. But it is hard with all the mother's day stuff going on and I will be glad when the day passes.

bea I am sorry to read about what you have been through. My mum loves those wordy, soppy cards; I used to buy the plainest one I could. As I said above it can be so liberty to actually just please yourself, but you need to get to that point where you are able to and maybe you're not there yet?

Glad you're working on you. I doubt you could do that with them in contact. I'm glad they aren't bothering you either.

It's sad to think a lot of people live in misery and in a constant anxious state because of toxic families and the obligation to stay in contact.

I saw some of those twee signs today and one said 'Friends always welcome, family members by appointment only' and it made me

Hello everyone. I think I need a little advice and support again if that's okay. And I am sorry for the essay.

Things have been going along okay. No contact from my family and the weekly therapy has been helping. My parents have sent an Easter card for the DCs with a fiver in it to buy some eggs. I've not responded. Next week is DS' bday and they will send a card and cheque. I don't know how to respond. My gut feeling is to get DCs to write a thank you card for the egg money and the birthday cheque. DM may well call on DS' birthday or expect a call from DS and I don't know what to do if she calls (I am not inclined to get DS to call her).

Yesterday a package of Easter eggs arrived in the post from my brother and his family for our DCs. We have never done this before and considering we haven't really seen them for a few years I find this very odd and it has annoyed me a lot because it feels like an intrusion. Is he trying to make peace? Guilty conscience? I sat with it all day and last night I texted him to ask why he sent the eggs. He said his wife thought it would be nice (she is not a typically thoughtful/make a fuss kind of a person). He asked if it was okay. I replied no, it wasn't and that I had asked to be left alone. I then asked him if my parents had spoken to him and he replied "no". So, basically despite them knowing for over a month they have done nothing about it. DH says they are probably finding it such a huge enormous thing that they just can't face it. He didn't mean that in a way to justify their lack of action. We were just talking about it. We agreed that it's par for the course with them.

So I was talking to my mother in law last night too. She has asked me a lot lately if I've spoken to or seen my parents lately. Last night she asked if I was seeing them over Easter and I told her I've gone NC for now and I briefly told her why, without telling her it was my brother. Just two family members had sexually abused me and that I didn't know if my mother knew and did nothing about it. Her response left me stunned tbh. She wasn't shocked or sympathetic or supportive. She started to say something similar happened to her (although she said it wasn't sexual and it was a one off incident. Not to dismiss what happened to her but, really?). She told me she was scared, told her mum and her mum sorted it out and that was that. She was very close to her own mother. Our conversation revolved around how she knows my mum (only since DH and I have been together) and she was sure she would have done sth if she had known etc.

It was such an odd conversation. I felt actually that my mum had called her and told her a little about it and she has been fishing for a while asking if I'd spoken to them etc. They don't live near each other but they do occasionally speak on the phone and obviously they've been at our family events together, but they are not good friends or anything. She seemed all too primed with answers and questions and statements. Now, my MIL has NC with her own DD. DD's decision entirely and no-one really knows why. (MIL is a little odd in her beliefs). They have not seen each other for 18 years and MIL has 4 grandchildren she has never seen. So, is she projecting that hurt and the potential hurt my parents are feeling/would feel if NC is permanent?

I asked her last night if she had spoken to my parents about it and she said no but it was hesitant and odd. I asked her if she would please not discuss it with my parents and she said she would try to see both sides (?!!).

I have been stewing on it all what with the eggs from my fuckwit of a brother. So this morning I emailed MIL just saying please could she respect my wishes and not discuss me with my parents. Her response was:-

"If and when I speak with your mother I cannot guarantee that she will not mention it to so I will be aware of your comments but will try to be kindly to her too".

This was my reply:-

"Not the response I was hoping for! I would prefer you to just tell her that you are respecting my wishes and won't discuss it but you must do as you see fit I suppose.

It's a very complex and delicate situation and the abuse was very serious. I shouldn't have said anything and let's not discuss it again. It's just that you kept asking me if I had spoken to them or if I was seeing them and I felt you may already have spoken with them about it.

As I said, best not to tall about it again."

Anyway DH got on the case. Yesterday I told him details about some of the abuse (which left my therapist open mouthed - she was trying to establish how serious was it - doctors and nurses or abuse - because I had not told her any detail). He has been fab. He understands I need ppl around me who are on my team. Not because I want to control what others think, but I am struggling to release myself of any blame as it is without this. And in any case without the abuse even my parents have been shit.

DH emailed MIL just saying that each situation is different and I am the victim; my mother is in no way a victim and that she is coming across as if she is sympathising with my mother which is damaging to me right now as I am trying to heal and get through this. They ended up speaking on the phone and she was saying she will not be gagged (again ?!!). Very strong language from her as she is a very passive, woolly kind of a person. She ended up sobbing.

So now I feel shit about that, but I also feel I've been manipulated and handled and I confided in her and I don't trust her at all now.

Sorry for the length of this and thanks to those who have got through it.

Oh, and she also pointedly asked "are you going to let her see the boys?". It really was such an odd reaction to what was, I'd have thought, quite a shocking confession.

I believe the "technical" term for these people is "flying monkeys" - as in the flying monkey sent by the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz.

Your parents are panicking because the situation is getting out of control (for them), and now are trying to get to everyone before you in order to make them see "their point of view", and downplay anything you might say.

Your MIL's reaction is unforgivable, to be honest. She says that she wants to be objective and listen to all sides - but really, if she wants to be objective, this is none of her business whatsoever, and she shouldn't get involved. She's probably siding with your parents because she's trying to downplay her own abuse - "it wasn't such a big deal for me, so it can't be such a big deal for Absolutely". I.e. she probably can't bear to accept that it WAS a big deal, so she's trying to deny your pain.

I really hope your DH makes things clear and puts her in her place. And if she can't stay out of all this, then you should make it clear that your treatment of your family will also extend to her. It's up to her.

Oh, and I would wonder why your MIL's daughter has gone NC with her for such a long time. That doesn't usually come out of the blue.

Oh, and "I won't be gagged"? This is not a democracy, it's your life!

I'm sorry for the successive messages, but the more I think about it, the more it's pissing me off.

And "I won't be gagged"? This is not a democracy, it's your life!

Sorry for the successive messages, but the more I think about it, the more it's pissing me off.

For the presents, I would get children to write brief thank you. No need to call her, its her who should be sending good wishes. I've never heard of someone ringing up & asking for Bday wishes.

re eggs from Brother, don't send them back, just send a note saying not wanted, & you have given them to food bank. if she is mystified, she should ask your brother why.
(why would sil law suddenly decide to send them now weird....)

as for MIL, it definitely sounds that she has been prepped, I would tell her frankly, that you spoke to her in confidentiality, & as someone you thought of as worthy of being privy to your private life, clearly you were mistaken, so if you discover that she is being go-between, or has been passing ships of conversation on, then she will be person non grata, in the same manner as your mother. then she won't be gagged, she just won't have anything to recount.

Sorry about this new fuckwittery... bud glad that globally you have managed to remain free of your parents

snips !

Thank you mix and distance. MIL emailed DH to say she hopes we can work it out etc (me and parents). I think it's sort of resolved between them but I'm really pissed off because she made no assurances that she hasn't/won't speak to them about me. In DH's mind it was sorted but I told him that in my mind nothing has changed. She made it all about her and the conversation between them turned into one about her abuse and her situation and her life. Smoke and mirrors and DH is too naive (and lovely) to see that. I am going to just not contact her and see what happens. It's tricky because she has the DCs for a few hours one day a week after school and that won't happen for a couple of weeks now but I had being beholden. I mentioned to DH looking for other options but he felt that was an over reaction - although that was before I told him she had offered me no assurances etc.