support thread! Marriages in recovery!

[humanmagicmarker]

Hello all, I find myself trawling through the posts in this section looking for people in the same boat as me, but I can't find any!

So I've decided to build my own boat and see if anyone wants to join me

My marriage is in recovery after my husband had an affair six months ago, we are both trying very hard to make it work, as the affair was a symptom of the fact that we had drifted from one another (what's with all the boat-y metaphors today?) rather than a need to 'get out' on his part.

It is very hard to learn to trust again and rebuild this from the ground up, and it would be lovely to know if others are facing the same things.

so come join me and lets have a brew xxx

Well, your comments about perfection, being loveable etc reminded me of Transactional Analysis (TA). TA is a therapy approach based upon examining the interactions between people. It appeals to me because it's simple to understand(!) and very practical - I find it easy to apply in my life. So, it's worth just Googling "Transactional Analysis Introduction" for some freebies, but there are some very accessible and affordable books on Amazon.

Human

It's baby steps, sit down and paint something, doesn't matter what it is, just do it

He did not have an affair because something is wrong with you, he did it because of something going on with him

Another painter here! I'm new to this thread but sadly, qualify. My DH of twenty years had a brief fling with a 'friend' of mine in July 2013. Our marriage was awful at the time and he has moved heaven and earth since to reconcile with me.

But onto the important bit; painting was also the thing which I really loved and was good at. I'd done very little since DC's were born ( three of them 19, 17, 14) but suddenly felt a tremendous desire To paint in the immediate aftermath of D- Day. I too felt the wobbles that I, clearly inadequate as a wife, was about to demonstrate the same qualities on paper. But I pushed on regardless. What worked for me was to illustrate poems, use them for inspiration as poetry can really reach you when you're at you're lowest ebb. I reccomended a read of 'The World's Wife' by Carol Ann Duffy; I actually produced the best picture of my entire life inspired by her poem Penelope.

Do stick with it Human and Worse, it's helped me more than words can say. Do it for you, your talent is precious and untouched by all this misery and confusion, go and find it again.

I am pasting a link (at the end) that clearly shows that affairs have nothing to do with us betrayed partners. Many might not like the link. I agree with its principle that modern humans especially men are still like psychological fossils of the cavemen. It somehow helps me having a glimpse at my H's amind. (I am not yet in the forgiving stage- hardly at the accepting stage.) My H is adamant that in his eyes I am perfect (even my flaws are fine)- He has nothing to bring up against me etc and the affair was just opportunity (she did all the moves) + distance (physical in our case and mental in many other aspects because high work stress is involved) and the false belief that it will not affect our family life. So this link might help you Human. His affair has nothing to do with you. Another thing: I agree with Christian. Do not empower the OW or him. You must rebuild your self-esteem independently of them. MrsFring's suggestion also sounds great. Start illustrations paintings to take you off your feelings. Just a side-remark: I did not want my daughters to go to arts studies (they are very good at arts) since they can go to studies that can make them economically independent (engineering in their case). Are you worried because you might think that you depend upon him financially? (Sorry if it is an ugly question.) Here is the link- it deflect the affair from us (it does not condone the affair). I hope it helps:
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201106/why-men-behave-badly-causality-vs-morality

Just as a side remark (and I'm trying not to get on a high horse here, I really am...) why does going to art college mean you can't be financially independent? Why is it any riskier than any other career? I guarantee that about 80 % of items in any persons house were designed and created by someone who studied the arts. Most people involved in tv and cinema studied the arts, and everyone watches telly. (Phew. Sorry, just had to get that out of my system).

Thanks for the link though, very interesting xx

I agree about what you said about arts (I love arts and crafts BTW- all arts and crafts- books/hand-made covers/paintings/music/movies/cartoons/theatre/crochet/hand-made shoes/haute couture dresses/fashion/fabrics etc etc. The problem is that you have to be outstanding to get a good job (well paid) in these fields. Making cartoons (movies) is an excellent field with excellent job opportunities. In fact it is one of the rare area in arts that has not been touched by the economic recession. We did some research on it and on art in general. From the data we have been able to collect we reached the conclusion that very few are able to secure a decent living out of the art. Whilst engineering for instance in specific fields guarantees excellent job prospects and very decent earnings. BTW they are happy in engineering (there are other fields they could have chosen) and they pursue arts as a hobby (painting- drawing- acting-cartoons etc). I want them to be strong. To be strong means to be able to financially support yourself. That way they can feel secure to leave a relationship where they are not happy without worrying about the economic aspect. (BTW engineers are much more artistic oriented than what we believe and many art developed hand in hand with technology.)

I am glad you liked the article. I hope you understand that his affair has nothing to do with you and does not mean at all that he thinks about leaving you. On the contrary men in a secure relationship are less off guard (and even less choosy) in stressful times and thus more prone to affairs- especially if they are in powerful or well paid high demanding jobs (it sounds that this is the case of your H) because in these cases they are more attractive to other women (co-workers) and their testosterone level shoots up (the link mentions this) . (BTW all the 'jungle' primitive terms -fight or flight etc- are born following the stressful highly paid jobs that developed post 80s.) Have a nice week end!

Not this woman-blaming, man-diminishing nonsense again?!

Joining with humanmagicmarker to say that I'm a little sick of the assumptions you are making about arts related degrees and career prospects. Frankly if everyone had the attitude you seem to have, the world would be full of 'engineers' and then I somehow doubt there would be enough jobs to go around.

I didn't choose my degree because it would earn me a lot of money, but because it was something I felt passionate about and now I am lucky to teach others and still use my degree as a hobby which I love. I am happy, fulfilled and while I may not earn as much as your daughters I earn enough that should my DH decide to leave I will be fine. No I'm not a high earner, but like many others I will get by.

Money doesn't necessarily bring happiness, you know.

All this stuff about being financially independent etc, what, may I ask do you do for a living?

(Waves to Jones) I did the ultimate non-vocational degree - Art History - and ran the publishing department of one of the countries leading museums for over a decade. The pay wasn't great but I was bloody good at it and don't regret my educational choices for a moment; a wonderfully non- sexist environment too.

Dd1 is studying Music at Uni, equal number of boys and girls, all happy muso's together forming bands and the like.

My DH works in a male- dominated field, earns loads and is miserable as hell. If we do split up I know who will be happier.

I have a lot of sympathy for 04's stance on financial independence and 'sensible' choices regarding education. I just think that it's the execution and definition of "happiness" that are a little misguided

I also earn enough to be financially fine if we split up. My husband is not in a highly paid, stressful job in order to support me as a starving artist, as a teacher I earn quite enough.

I watch and support other people's creativity every day, I'm just finding it hard to rediscover my own voice.

But we digress...

I had a long talk with DH last night. I've told him, after a very odd week of ups and downs, that in essence I'm going to stop pandering to him and what I think he wants (ie, the pick me dance) and just start painting and working on being happy to be me, and if he feels he want to come with me on that ride, it's up to him. He gave me a big hug and told me he wasn't going anywhere

Mrsfring, I've always considered an art history degree when I have time. Did you enjoy it? My interest is in 20th century so I worry that wouldn't get a lot of attention! I did a fine art MA a few years back and LOVED it!

Are you feeling better today? More hopeful?

(Waves back).

And as an aside the woman DH had an affair with is an engineer who earns 3 times what I do, could obviously be financially independent and yet, she is still stuck in her (allegedly) miserable marriage to a man she doesn't love and is serially unfaithful and hasn't got the guts to go it alone. It seems she would only consider leaving her H if she had another man to go to. She tried her best to persuade my DH to move in with her and he told her he wasn't interested. Just because you have the ability to be financially independent doesn't mean that some people will do it.

And I know who is the happier, more fulfilled of the two of us, thanks, even if I earn a pittance...

Yes, felt good to clear the air last night (and to some degree, it was a polite little "fuck you" which I must admit felt good). I'm sure I'll have wobbles, but I'm just so tired of being worried and scared, after 10 months of it I just can't live like that any more! I know I just need to find me again, I've set up my own space in the house where I can paint and sew, and even just having that space that is totally mine makes me feel so much better!

I bloody loved it. My special subject was Futurism, not much call for that!

Get those paints out Mrs....

human - your last paragraph made me smile. That's lovely.

1- First: I agree monies do not automatically equate to happiness and to strength. Monies need the right attitude to make the most of it. One of it being having and forgetting about it- i.e. not thinking of how to make more or how to use it to support arrogance and vanity and social climbing etc. Real pleasures are cheap if not free. Health and independence do need monies. About happiness: I do not look for happiness per se. I teach my kids not to go after 'fun' or 'happiness' or monies - but after decency and respect of others and of oneself and after contentment and gratitude.
2- I am in finances. I used to make a lot of monies. I decided to be a SAHM because my little one (born premature following accident) needs me a lot. (He is doing very well- monies to pay for plenty of therapy and to allow me to stay at home help a lot- I do often think about the less fortunate parents with kids with problems and to any unfortunate person with health problems who can't afford the best care. I wish we were in a better society.)
2- my H and I financially support various members of our family who chose to study what they like - they are in art- they hardly make ends meet- (they do painting- TV- weaving- inventing new textures- music bands- giving gigs here and there- rushing from school to school to teach here and there a few hours...)
3- Two kids (sons) of my best girl-friend are in art (music/acting/band etc). Gifted but minimal earning powers. My friend support them all (in their thirties) .
BTW whilst at college one of my daughters worked in parallel and got promoted so much so that she already owns a flat- and her ex-boyfriend, who is now her best friend, is a drop out with a problematic background but an excellent heart and good ethics (he started to work at an early age to help his granny who raised him). My daughter helped him a lot and is still helping him to complete his studies. (She offered him to live in her flat for free until he finishes his studies and is helping him with his homework .) My daughters are strong. They have strong principles there is no way they would go after someone already in a relationship and there is no way they would stay in a relationship because they have no better choice. . They are OK in relationships and they are OK to be on their own- they have plenty of friends (boys and girls) - they have plenty of interests (they paint play music act in theatre etc- they even help their friends in art with their homework ) . They are well rounded. I am very proud of them. I have noticed that recently they even started reading more substantial books (e.g. about history, the fall of Roman Empire etc). They are grateful to us that we helped them choosing their studies.

Aw Human I'm really pleased , I honestly think you have turned a corner

It's a bit like recovering from an illness, you need to take a step back, nurture yourself and do things that make you happy

Well done you

Oh and social work is my background...never was going to be a moneymaker was it!!

Thanks Christina, I know you were worried about me and I'm very glad of your support. I hit rock bottom this week but the truth is I think I needed to? I took a good look at what was happening to me, and realised that only I can change it. Thanks for your help, ladies xxxx

Hi Everyone, I'm so relieved to find this thread, and reading such balanced posts has really reassured me.

5 years ago the birth of our son led me to spend 2 years in hospital basically being "put back together" I'll save you all of the gory details but ultimately this led to a non-existent sex life and both of us completely traumatised by the never ending operations and a child to raise. Debt, bereavements, redundancy, and depression (both of us) thrown into the mix led to us finding ourselves in absolute hell and both struggling to make it through each day.

2 years ago my husband was forced to take a job 2 hours drive away in a much higher position and this led to us never seeing each other and then when we did we would argue to be very distant. Over the weekend I found out that over a 9 month period he was messaging (what I assume are wannabe porn stars) on twitter. He had sent 2 private messages, neither of which were reciprocated. He had also written very sexual tweets and basically gave the world a constant update of how crap our sex life was!

I know he hasn't physically cheated with anyone, but I can't help but wonder "what if".. If they had of replied... Where would we be now. He says it was a "check out from reality".

Since finding out he has been so attentive and open, and in fact our relationship feels like it could be better than ever. I just don't know how I get over the fact that through everything he chose to go outside the marriage.

As I'm writing this I'm very aware that a lot of you are hurting much more than I am I'm sure some are reading this feeling like I'm overreacting.

I'm just so shocked, like someone mentioned above he has always been the one person I that believed would never do that.

Sorry for the long post, but feeling very alone and haven't discussed this with anyone.

Welcome Lou

I'm sorry you have been through such a hard time

The thing is he has been unfaithful , any sexual,contact with someone outside of the marriage is infidelity. He has broken your trust and put you in a position where you don't know what to believe

Your feelings are totally valid, my situation is similar

Dear Lou! I certainly do understand your pain. I believe all of us on this thread do understand it. No we do not compare the enormity of our pain or of the betrayer's 'sins'. I personally believe that deep down we are all hurt for the same reasons:
1- by building a romantic relationship with someone, we bring him the closest we can bring any human being (bar our kids) to us, to our most inner/intimate being - not only physically but also mentally and emotionally. And yes sex is part of this special bond. So when our P seeks sex outside our relationship- without us knowing let alone agreeing, we feel like if he/she brought in our most intimate parts (body-heart- and soil) strangers, and like if he/she laid us naked to be seen by strangers. Kind of rape by the person we trusted most to love and protect us. Harsh words but I think they are quite appropriate. In your case he did not physically indulge in sex with others but he did expose your most inner intimate life to others and looked for sexual pleasures outside your marriage. They hurt us in our most vulnerable parts them who were assumed to love us and protect us.

2- we never ever believed that our P would look outside our relationship. I think that all of us in this thread believed that we would never find ourselves on this kind of threads, that our partner would never go out to spread his/her wild sow/legs or to expose our most intimate life to others.
Human did a great thing by starting this thread! Please feel free to write when you feel like it.
My apologies to all the lovers of Art that I have offended here:
I still do write on this thread a you all see but I do not feel very good because I did hurt many people here. To put it in mild terns: I did many social 'faux pas' here and there. You women who are in art: please do consider to accept my apologies when I spoke against taking degrees in art. I did not have in mind the students who consider teaching and who can make a decent and secure -no need to be high earning- income out of Art. I love Art and I enjoyed it a lot when I trained people in my job. Teaching is rewarding. Teaching Art must be double-rewarding because Art helps us to build an invaluable texture to our life. My kids wanted to be more on the creating side of art than on the teaching side. It is nice but it is very insecure. I have seen people around me who lack the basic in their everyday life because they devote all their time/energy/monies to Art. We are ADD - all of us- in the family (broad and narrow). When we are hooked on something we become obsessed by it. Not very healthy. So my daughters as they are, are better off doing degrees in engineering. Besides, we are going through difficult economical time all over the world. Young people are having to struggle more than before to go by. It does not look like it will improve soon. Anyway I might be wrong. And again instead of apologizing I am finding excuses to my behavior. So again my sincere apologies. )

Thank you Christinayangstwistedsister.

MaMaof04 thank you for your message too, after reading it I feel so cold in the pit of my stomach. You have explained it perfectly. Maybe these were the words I needed to read to bring me back into reality. I was feeling hopeful and now feel like I'm being stupid for trying to make it work.