DV from 16 year old son - how can I help him?

[Somethingtodo]

I have also posted this on teenagers www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/2288906-Abusive-violent-son-What-to-do?

• but wanted some perspective around DV and what I should be doing - WA? Can I stop my son's DV...will he be an abuser all his life?

Oldest son has always been stubborn, moody, aggressive and antagonistic with the family. He is v social and charming out of the home. He frequently punched me, and verbally abuses me during his angry rages and smashes up my house.

My STBXH stood by and watched and I eventually went to the police and his school this time last year (back story here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1599899-Is-being-an-avoider-a-marriage-deal-breaker)

....he got a caution, the school were great and he has not punched me since.

We have now decided to separate after a long 30 year relationship. STBXH has moved out. Ds has taken this really badly (other 3 younger siblings were shocked, angry but have got on with it)....he is now raging with me standing over me growling, red faced, teeth clenched, dribbling saliva and punching me in the head repeatedly but pulling back just before contact (as he knows I will contact the police again). He has smashed up my home -- manhandles me by physically shoving me out of his room. He screams at his 8 year little sister and calls her a cunt because she drinks her water too loudly.

He has decided to rebel and self-sabotage his education (lower 6th) by not doing any work. He is drinking and has started smoking weed at the weekend.

I want to help him not punish him - what do I do.

I have guilt that our marriage was toxic and he heard too much anger and frustration from me - so this is what I deserve - reap what you sow etc.

I'd leave out 'arranged for you to see a psychiatrist'. Leave that for next talk.

My 'boy' is 24 and behaves like this. Lots of weed along the way. Tbh if he's up to his neck in weed you're wasting your breath.

I think it's good to write it - but you absolutely MUST follow it up, to the letter.

Apart from anything, you MUST protect your other kids. I think your guilt is misplaced about his experiences so far: plenty of people with a shit childhood don't behave like this. He does it bcs he wants to, he could control it if he wanted to.

Get on to Respect asap. Follow everything up xx

Thank you springy - yes I thought that the psych bit was a OTT.

Since I have got rid of shit husband I now have the energy and focus to deal with ds and follow thru.

....and you are right no matter how tough life is, this behaviour is never justified - so I must get my guilt into perspective.

Leave out the bit about self destructive oath. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Tell him straight you don't call your sister that. What has she done to him ?

You can choose to allow yourself and your property to be smashed but your dd has to be protected.

Also, OP, get rid of the guilt. As you say in your letter, lots of people have problem childhoods without turning out bad. As long as you feel guilt, he will feed off it and refuse to take control of his own life and behaviour.

The other thing is that Vitamin B complex could help him to control his rage.

Actually, I take that back about wasting your breath if he's on weed. It won't (necessarily) register at the time, but things come back to people in their hour of need. Stuff goes in that parents say. The good and the bad.
Whether kids realise it consciously or not.

oh this is so sad. Obviously he is very angry and confused and stressed about a lot of things that are unsettled and difficult to handle and it sounds very much like he is allowing his feelings out with you but then being totally unable to control them and sounds on the edge of real rage and problems. Is he also around friends who disempower him? There isno doubt that drugs and drink are probably also depressing him deeply and not allowing any happiness to glimpse through.

I have actually realised how big an effect drink has on this from doing dry Jan as its even reduced my own treadmill feeling and massively improved my perspective on life and I have nothing like the stresses and depressing things to think about he has. Its such a mental effort to pretend that every things ok when there is an alcoholic and troubled family member he must be sore with embarrassment and struggling with how to handle that too , but you can't let that knowledge stop you from knowing also that his behaviour is really worrying. Especially if it becomes a habitual way of releasing anger/dealing with feelings that can't be felt as they are too painful.. to take it out on the wrong areas of his life is risky long term obviously. As they say anger is a covering emotion.. and often the only one young men are socialised to be able to express (cf all the films, books, games that are about loner getting revenge through violence rather than sitting and sobbing, being fearful, and trying to heal) which means that all that disappointment self esteem loss, upset and feeling of no ground under his feet are transposed to anger and rage.
If rage gets too bad it often can only cease if harm and pain comes to the person exhibiting it, or someone else. (cf the more healthy end of rage you also see in films.. The pushing everything off a desk or punching a wall or creating a noise behaviour (see also breaking up phone boxes etc) That's dangerous as its what causes harm and then regret then more anger instead of experiencing regret... and so on. I agree with trying MH services and if its possible finding a way to get him to stop the drinking/weed and maybe depression help. I think he also needs help to understand the feelings.. but he might not want to be that vulnerable for a while.. Its taken me years sometimes to admit that some things in my own life weren't great at the time because I wanted to ignore then just to avoid having to admit it, so I'm aware that it won't be easy for any of you. Have you considered family counselling?

In letter which has some good well thought out statements parag 2 is too accususatory and should go after 'man handling mum' and be softened to 'I'd like you to be able to' or even 'can you think of any ways I can help you to' rather than 'you need' as 'you need' heaps conclusion and responsibility but no assistance onto him and sounds like disapproval '('parent' language/judgemental communication (rather than adult -adult communication) will stimulate the rebellious child)

I think it's helpful to think 'how would I wrore this letter to someone I wasn't angry with who I respected like a colleague or friend' as judgemental language could trigger immediate switch-off when the effect you want is to open up consideration in his mind that his behaviour is something he can manage, rather than something you are using to demonstrate he is unacceptable as a person. Its tricky as it sounds like he is continually hearing and magnifying any thing negative, and he probably feels cery unloved, including by himself.
They say you need 5 positive messages/events to overcome one negative message.. and hes getting a lot of negatives at the moment so more disapproval without positivity too could limit the effectiveness. Its hard but there will have to be some positive traits that you will need to remind him of.. even if they were years ago if he is to find self esteem again.. but yes deal with the harm issue robustly. Hope This is helpful if badly expressed. It must be really awful to be in this situation. Remember also that some anger will be from being half a child half an adult and this is a very 'trapping' state to be in.

I agree with Anomaly. My relationship with my brother is also tainted as to how he behaved growing up. Threatening us all, kicking me, he fractured my dads cheekbone and put him in hospital. He was utterly vile for a couple of years. We are in our 40's now and I rarely see him, am civil when I do. I will never forgive him for poisoning part of my childhood. Please protect your other children, this may have a negative knock on effect for them in years to come.

The letter is good as you have a script you can stick to if he tries to derail, which he will. He cannot use divorce etc as an excuse for crap behaviour.

Hold onto the fact that you have done/are doing everything you can when managing the guilt. As parents it is something we carry with us always and warps our perspective (I have discovered this even though dd is only 7 months so I guess it just gets worse!). But you can be assured that there is no reason to feel guilty or responsible for his behaviour.

I was thinking about the mental health side too. Unless he's in a severe depression or psychosis or similar and has no control over his actions (doesn't sound it tbh) then I don't think he can use MH problems as an excuse. You see it time and time again on MN where bad behaviour is explained away by abusers because of their state of mind and 99% of the time it has little bearing on their actions (as someone with bipolar it grates to see people using mental health in such a way too!). The weed and booze won't help and I am also not sure they will assess him either if he is under the influence. You will get advice on that though from your doctor.

He is very lucky to have you as his mother. I am sure he will realise it one day.

kick him out. Hes 16. Hes old enough to go round punching and abusing his mother, father and abusing his sister. You cant keep givung him chances as if he doesnt already know what hes been doing is wrong and he will finally understand. How bad are you waiting for it to get?
You are failing to protect your daughter from an abuser.
get angry

I doubt very much that he will change. It sounds like this behaviour is too ingrained. Please put your daughter first as it may not be too late for her.

There's some very harsh words here and some woeful ignorance regarding MH issues.

This is a 16 year old boy - still a child really who has lived through some traumatic experiences within his own family.

Yes, the OP must protect her other DC and absolutely not brush this under the carpet but I wouldn't be able to write my son off as a violent abuser at 16. I find it hard to believe anyone could do that.

He needs help to talk through his problems and understand what us making him lose control and most importantly developing coping strategies to channel his anger appropriately when he starts to feel it building.

It must be awful for you and I sympathise.

However I think you are putting your other children at risk of mental and physical harm by enabling this boys behaviour.

He can control himself, as evidenced by the pulling his punches at the last minute. He's not going quite far enough to get arrested (he thinks). This demonstrates extremely GOOD control if you ask me.

You need to stop being so soft on him. Call the police next, and every time he makes you so much as nervous.

MmeMorrible my brother at sixteen was large, powerful and regularly broke my nose, my glasses so I couldn't see, and used violence as a tool to control my mother. You bet I can call that an abuser. Age is irrelevant. He knew exactly what he was doing. No way would the sixteen year old young men I have met through work at young offender institutes could be described as a child.

I see no ignorance on MH issues on this thread, and stand by my point that people cannot use mental health as an excuse to justify abuse. It can explain it but it can't be used as a get out of jail for free card to treat everyone around you like shit. At sixteen yes you are young but you are most definitely old enough to know better that lashing out in a violent rage is not socially acceptable behaviour, particularly when you have been told so by both families, school and police. No one seems to be hiding from the issue or trying to sweep it under the carpet. He is well able to control himself enough to hold his punches back. To me that's not someone out of control due to a MH issue. There is something not normal about his behaviour, that is certain and he needs professional help - which he has accessed in the past via pastoral support at school, but to put it all down to illness? At what point does the op stop giving everything she has to give at the expense of the rest of her family before it goes past the point of no return?

Agree with Springydaffs - please don't go to or rely on camhs - parent blaming is intrinsic in what they do- it's just the cheap easy option.
I think you are sadly going to find that there is very little provision for people in your situation. I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but all the Heath professionals also know this to be the truth.

I hope you find the inner strength to deal with this. You have to because no one else is going to.
Big hugs.

I also agree MH services in the UK are dire and for this age group particularly hit and miss depending on where you live. Sorry for bad English in my posts, typing on my phone. Hope you are ok today OP.

CAMHS has never been well resourced and is now in dire straits but the fact remains there is expertise which only CAMHS can provide

• diagnosis eg no mental MH problem vs emerging personality problems, psychosis, anxiety/mood disorder, ASD assessment, PTSD etc etc

• medication for the above - GPs cannot safely prescribe SSRI antidepressants for anxiety or depression. Or anti-psychotics. To under 18's

Blaming/judgemental professionals are not unique to CAMHS and can [unfortunately] be found in any agency working with troubled young people as the OP has already experienced with the police. IMO declining their involvement would be foolhardy in this dangerous situation.

Managed to dig up an ancient thread to find this organisation. People are saying some very good stuff about it - give it a go?

I think he needs firm boundaries - no not boundaries, walls - to tell him that his behaviour is absolutely not ok too. 'Talking' is very useful but in this sort of case it's 30% of the necessary handling. The rest is putting the unbreakable limits in place.

Thanks all. I know that I have to act immediately if he does it again - police and moving out.

They are my only options as he does not listen to me and continues to justify his behaviour by blaming me for ruining his life and annoying him. I am terrified as I suspect that it will come to this.

I am seeing a the school counsellor tomorrow.

If CAMHS is a waste of space can anyone recommend a private service - anywhere around M25?

erm I have recommended a private service. Or at least an org that is seeing some amazing results. See post above. did you read it? I hope so because it took me a very long time to find it.

I'm not sure if your lack of response to posters who have taken the trouble to post is due to the isolation of your situation. We can get so tangled up with this, in such a frenzy of despair, it is hard to see outside it. You also seem to think it's all down to you and you have to swoop in to rescue him. That is partly true in a very vague sense because he's your child, but a bit of distance here would be good, particularly for him tbh.

Do try to look outside it, that people are posting and making suggestions - perhaps this would help you to realise 1. you're not alone with this and 2. people are reaching out to help.

Aside from the doom and gloomers ffs

Did your relationship with your abuser (your son's father) rely largely on your saving him to some extent, especially at the beginning of the relationship? eg a tough childhood/ex/life/etc and you were going to love him to health by making allowances for appalling behaviour?

You need protect your other 3 children who behave in a perefectly decent way. There is really no excuse for his behaviour.

It sounds like your doing the right thing, I would kick him out too as that may be only chance he could learn. Terrifying how a boy could abuse his mum, what will he do to future partners? Shudder.