DV from 16 year old son - how can I help him?

[Somethingtodo]

I have also posted this on teenagers www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/2288906-Abusive-violent-son-What-to-do?

• but wanted some perspective around DV and what I should be doing - WA? Can I stop my son's DV...will he be an abuser all his life?

Oldest son has always been stubborn, moody, aggressive and antagonistic with the family. He is v social and charming out of the home. He frequently punched me, and verbally abuses me during his angry rages and smashes up my house.

My STBXH stood by and watched and I eventually went to the police and his school this time last year (back story here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1599899-Is-being-an-avoider-a-marriage-deal-breaker)

....he got a caution, the school were great and he has not punched me since.

We have now decided to separate after a long 30 year relationship. STBXH has moved out. Ds has taken this really badly (other 3 younger siblings were shocked, angry but have got on with it)....he is now raging with me standing over me growling, red faced, teeth clenched, dribbling saliva and punching me in the head repeatedly but pulling back just before contact (as he knows I will contact the police again). He has smashed up my home -- manhandles me by physically shoving me out of his room. He screams at his 8 year little sister and calls her a cunt because she drinks her water too loudly.

He has decided to rebel and self-sabotage his education (lower 6th) by not doing any work. He is drinking and has started smoking weed at the weekend.

I want to help him not punish him - what do I do.

I have guilt that our marriage was toxic and he heard too much anger and frustration from me - so this is what I deserve - reap what you sow etc.

I would add - sometimes there is only so much as a parent that you can do. It's heartbreaking but perhaps there is not much else you can do to help some people won't be helped no matter what. It may not be at that stage yet though and I hope you find a resolution.

Don't go to CAMHS. They will blame you. Cheap therapy in every sense of the word.

A pp asked why you aren't calling the police when he abuses you, but you haven't answered. SS should know your daughter is living in a home with an abuser. Your daughter shouldn't be there if he is there.

These are tough words but if you continue to soft-soap him when he is flagrantly abusing you, you have an abuser for life. You have to get serious intervention now while you have the chance. Before long he'll be 18 and you really will be powerless. There'll be very little hope for him then.

I mean your daughter shouldn't be living there if he is living there.

I havent called the police as he has a caution due to the abuse on me last year and that will automatically be triggered to a charge.

I dont want him to be an abuser, have a MH problem, or have a criminal record.

I want to fix him as I feel a level of responsibility due to the toxic marriage he witnessed and heard for far too long.

Perhaps better that he has a criminal record now as a juvenile than later, when this behaviour continues into adulthood? (As it will).

You can't fix the fact that he has a MH problem - he needs help, as well as appropriate sanction. Guilt about your shit marriage doesn't help him.

*I dont want him to be an abuser, have a MH problem, or have a criminal record.

I want to fix him as I feel a level of responsibility due to the toxic marriage he witnessed and heard for far too long.*

But you have other dcs to consider as well as this, which is not only sucking up all your energy but also leaving them in a dangerous position.

MH is not a curse and there are many avenues of support these days available. I completely understand your anguish about not wanting your son to be ill in any way, or have a record etc but there really is only so much you can do. A spell away from you all and recognising that there are consequences to abusive behaviour could be exactly what he needs. 'protecting' him from not getting a caution etc could be even more damaging in the long run.

Shit things happen in life all the time and he can't go through it as an adult lashing out and injuring people. You have done your best. There is no need for guilt.

So sorry you are going through this

OP: he IS an abuser, he HAS an MH problem, and he DOES have a criminal record. That's what a caution means. You can't fix him without depriving your other DCs of their own childhoods.

Thanks all - so my actions are to tell him that I will call the police to get his caution up to a charge & move him out of the home - if he does it again - and get him MH support via GP in the interim.

What re-hab programmes are there for abusers and do they work?

*I havent called the police as he has a caution due to the abuse on me last year and that will automatically be triggered to a charge.

I dont want him to be an abuser, have a MH problem, or have a criminal record.

I want to fix him as I feel a level of responsibility due to the toxic marriage he witnessed and heard for far too long.*

I can understand this - BUT you have a responsibility to your younger dc. Your son has broken all boundaries and presumably knows he can get away with this. What if he is violent to someone else outside the home? Then he will have a criminal record. He's been getting away with it for far too long. I think you need to call the police NOW and get him out of the house, and concentrate on fixing and helping your other dc, before the pattern repeats itself. You are spending all your time and energy on him - what is left fr your other dc? He's 16. He has to be responsible for his own actions.

OP checkout the Respect link I posted above, they specialise in abuse perpetrator programmes and have developed ones specifically for young people, including those who abuse their parents. They will be able to help you find what's available in your area.

I understand that you don't want your son to have issues but at the moment he has quite serious mental health and abuse problems and it's quite possible that early intervention at this stage may turn him around.

With adult da programmes don't have a hugely high success rate - around 15% - but it's higher with young people as it can intervene before the individual gets set in patterns of abuse and abusive thinking.

I also just wanted to post to offer support but my children are small so I have no experience of this. My brothers, however, were often violent in the home, not necessarily towards my mum, mainly towards each other and towards me.
If you feel the need to offer your son help, the only real help I think you can give him that makes any sense is practical help in leaving the home. He has overstayed his welcome, that's for sure. If you don't want to turf him out to be homeless then you can help set him up in his new place, or try to get someone to help you with this. And yes, if he's violent don't hesitate to call the police.

He has been loads better since the police caution last year.

The recent (day 12) separation is what has kicked him off again.

He is not like this (violent/abusive) all day everyday - though he is moody, demanding and hard work.

But when I speak to him to tell him he is unreasonable/out of order he just argues back with me, never apologises or takes any responsibility for his actions - he just blames me for his anger and behaviour.

I am worried that if I move him out - his Dad will get involved and move him in with him - which would be a disaster - as his Dad is useless and toxic.

I still think you need to "throw him to the wolves" right now because you can't put your 8 year old through this. And you can't put yourself through it either!!
Are you worried that his dad getting involved with him will mean you having to then get involved with the dad? I can see how that would be a major stress.
Perhaps see as much advice as possible about getting him some accommodation of his own.
You are absolutely right to define this as DV, but the thing about DV is that these type of abusers don't behave like this in public usually, only in the home. Therefore some type of communal living type situation would be ideal for him and would probably keep him in check. Can he rent a room? Are there half-way houses in your area, or any other facilities for teenagers who can't live at home.

I am worried about the Dad getting involved not because of STBXH contact with me but because he is a useless parent (as well as husband) and is why we are separating and why my son is abusive (back story here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1599899-Is-being-an-avoider-a-marriage-deal-breaker).

I dont want son living with STBXH - I want to focus the next 18 months fixing him and packing him off to uni - far away from his useless Dad.

Actually my STBXH told me that DS has started punching him. DS obvs believes that caution only relates to me...

I want to build a constructive, normal relationship with my DS over the next 18 months until he leaves home.

I feel I owe it to him to fix him as he has been affected by this toxic marriage.

He doesnt accept what he does is wrong. He hates me and blames me.

When I try to speak to him he just argues, shouts me down, escalates to rage so we get no where - then shoves me out of his room thru the puched in door.

OP you can't fix him on your own, you will need professional help and support. It willing be easy to access the right help and if DS needs counselling then he needs to find someone he can work with and that's not always he first person you will find. It's a long hard road ahead and you need to protect your other DCs through this process. They need to know this is not acceptable behaviour and see you do something about this.

These problems will not begin and in his relationship with you.

Unless your DS finds constructive ways to deal with his anger then he will repeat this pattern with his partners and even perhaps his children in the future.

I want to build a constructive, normal relationship with my DS over the next 18 months until he leaves home.

He doesnt accept what he does is wrong. He hates me and blames me.

You won't be able to do the former until the latter is addressed. You also may not be able to do the former until there is some distance between you and the latter is addressed by him realising the consequence of his behaviour ie police.

I feel I owe it to him to fix him as he has been affected by this toxic marriage.

I dont want son living with STBXH - I want to focus the next 18 months fixing him and packing him off to uni - far away from his useless Dad

Sadly no one can 'fix' anyone else. They have to do it themselves. He is old enough to be able to take steps to change his actions. Although young, he is NOT a child any more and in two short years will be judged as an adult. This could have devastating consequences if he is not checked and given a dose of cold reality now. He won't communicate with you so you really have few options left.

Uni can wait. This cannot. For the sake of your other children and your own sanity, particularly if he continues to be violent to your H, it needs to stop now.

It's heartbreaking to read threads such as yours. But there really are few options. And I speak as someone who left home at 15 because the relationship with my mother was intolerable on both sides. It helped massively in the long run.

Thankyou MmeM - that is exactly my take on it all.

That is why I posted here - I am concerned for his future - and I recognise he has a serious problem that needs addressing by professionals.

This is always where I go wrong - trying too hard for too long.

But I will address. I dont want to throw him out and I dont want to call the police - yet.

I want to help him first - but this will not be one way and there will be clear firm boundaries and consequences.

Thankyou living - I know you are right - but I really want to give him a chance.

I dont think that he has had any boundaries or consequences before or any significant support for a long term issue that I have only recognised today, from this thread, as being a serious MH need.

I have spent all of DS's life coping and trying to address issues with his useless father (again tried too hard for too long) to the detriment of all the children.

So I want to do this for him just this once - but it will be crystal clear - that one step over the line will involve Police and moving out instantly. I just need to lay it out for him in black and white and be strong enough to carry the consequences through - I did it last time - so I can do it again.

I have more energy and focus to prioritise this in the short term as draining STBXH is now gone.

University is something that you do if you want to.

Throwing him out won't change his desire to go, surely? You can still try to support him financially, as much as possible.

These are the things that have really hit home with me from all your posts - and are critical that I take on board:

You must protect your younger dcs.
He is sucking up all your energy but also leaving other dcs in a dangerous position.
SS should know your daughter is living in a home with an abuser. Your daughter shouldn't be there if he is there.
You can't fix him without depriving your other DCs of their own childhoods.
It's a long hard road ahead and you need to protect your other DCs through this process. They need to know this is not acceptable behaviour and see you do something about this.

His behaviour is so not normal.
You can't fix the fact that he has a MH problem - he needs help, as well as appropriate sanction.
You have to get serious intervention now while you have the chance.
Before long he'll be 18 and you really will be powerless.

He is sixteen now, well old enough to know the consequences of his actions.
Shit things happen in life all the time and he can't go through it as an adult lashing out and injuring people.

There is only so much as a parent that you can do.
It's heartbreaking but perhaps there is not much else you can do to help some people won't be helped no matter what.
Guilt about your shit marriage doesn't help him.
You have done your best. There is no need for guilt.
You personally cannot fix him and if you feel as if all this is entirely your responsibility it will make you very unwell and you have younger dc to think of and your own sanity.

Twinklestien - I will look at the link now. Sounds like this is what we need - not years on a waiting list and some light weight un focussed CBT when he reaches the end of the waiting list when he is 25.

I have decided to read this letter to him. Please let me know your thoughts.

I love you unconditionally and only want the best for you so that you can have a happy, full-filling and healthy life.

You need to develop your own inner emotional strength (calm, self motivated and in control), so that you can express your emotions appropriately and maintain strong, life long, relationships and achieve all you are capable of as an adult.

I am very concerned that your response to stress, both big and small, is uncontrollable violence, anger, abuse and blaming.

It is not normal to get so easily riled that you smash up property, scream obscenities and abuse, foam at the mouth, hold a clenched fist with a punching motion to someone's head, punch your Dad and man-handle your Mother, as well as not be able to have a calm adult discussion about an issue.

This abnormal and abusive behaviour indicates that you have a mental health condition and I have arranged for your to see a psychiatrist for diagnosis and treatment.

It is also not acceptable in society or in any home to smash up property, scream obscenities and abuse, foam at the mouth, hold a clenched fist with a punching motion to someone's head, punch your Dad and man-handle your Mother.

I will not have this behavior in my home or expose my younger children to anymore trauma experienced by witnessing this.

If you display any one of these behaviours once more I will call the police and social services immediately so that you are removed from the home and place in foster care and are no longer a threat to me, the younger children or my property.

Continuing to behave this way will take you further down a path of destructive chaos, severe emotional pain, failure in relationships, friendships and work, and ultimately to jail.

Everyone gets stressed - stress is good and motivating - but we all need to take personal responsibility for responding appropriately and then making lifestyle choices to relieve it (planning and organisation, enough sleep, eating healthily, daily exercise and moderating stimulants).

I appreciate that times have been tough and you are hurt but life throws challenges all of the time and we have to cope with these in the right way. The other children feel as hurt as you do but choose not to be violent or abusive about it.

I am here 100% to support you but I will not tolerate anymore abnormal and abusive behaviour from you.