DH isn't abusive or unkind but I feel overpowered and confused by him. Help!

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I am feeling really confused about my marriage, and I really want to get an outside perspective on how I can fix things (or not). I need an outsider's perspective. I don't have any close family (only child, only my mum left and she is not someone to discuss problems with) or close friends sadly. He is so subtle that I can't decide whether any of the things he does are deliberate or if they even exist but I feel all the time like I am going a bit crazy.

Backstory: I met my DH when I was 22 and he was 33. At that age, I was extremely immature, unconfident and insecure and only just really learning who I was. We were married 2 years later, and now we've been married for 15 years (I'm 40 now). We have two children aged 10 and 4. He's an amazing man, extremely intelligent, not from the UK, lived in many countries, speaks several languages fluently and several others well. He's a flamboyant and enthusiastic cook and makes friends with all kinds of people effortlessly. He was so different to anyone I'd ever met before and I adored him. We started out as friends but quickly fell in love and within weeks he said he was going to marry me.

I still love him very much and really don't want to hurt him. He's a great father (apart from one thing I write about below) and the children adore him.

And yet I feel like I want to get away from him because he kind of sucks all the life out of me. Currently I've been able to be a SAHM for a while I am very grateful for, but I'm now wanting to go back to work because I need some independence and interaction with other people.

The key issues:

• We haven't had sex for 4 years. Yes, YEARS. Basically the last time was when DS was conceived. The same happened after DD was born. We didn't have sex for years until it was convenient to have a second child. This makes me feel desperately unhappy to be honest. I've tried to talk to him about it but he says he just doesn't feel like it because he's overweight. He says he still thinks I'm attractive but he has no sex drive. That's the end of the discussion. We're basically roommates at this point and he's fine with that.

• He controls all our finances, even when I was the breadwinner for the family. When we moved to this country, he knew the country and the language and I was overwhelmed with my first baby, so I just left him to it. Until recently, my name wasn't even on our bank account. We now have a joint account but I don't have my own credit card, he controls that.

• He talks to me as though I am stupid. Very subtly and it's made out to all be jokes. But it undermines my confidence and I find myself becoming this dizzy chaotic silly person that he treats me like, even though I have a PhD and as I said kept the family afloat while he retrained. Because we live abroad, my career basically died and I haven't been able to find a job that I love, but I have slogged away and earned good money anyway.

• (This is a biggie for me): He talks to DD the same way. This slightly teasing, jokey but insidious "you are so stupid" tone. I really can't describe it better than that. He thinks that DS is "intellectual" (he's 4!) and DD isn't. I really dislike the way he speaks to her more and more. He is getting much worse as she gets older. He is a teacher and always talking about how ditsy the girls he teaches are and how DD is just like them. And he always seems to be picking on her, just finding something wrong to comment on.

• When I try to discuss anything with him, I always end up feeling confused and wrong. I can't explain it, but somehow it all turns around to where his point of view is the right one and I somehow had it all a bit wrong. I try so hard to stand up for myself and be assertive but I get myself all turned around and dizzy almost every time. I end up feeling guilty for even thinking whatever point I wanted to make. If he does concede he makes a big deal about how he is doing what I want.

• He's totally self-absorbed. He has an office in our apartment where he spends at least 80% of the time he is at home. Sometimes he is working, but equally often he's playing computer games or streaming TV shows. He's totally disinterested in buying anything for the children or taking photographs or improving our living situation. I had to fight for YEARS to buy DD her own bed. The only pictures I have of myself when I was pregnant last time are selfies.

• He has continuously refused to talk to me in the language of the country we live in. I have learned the language, even though I make a lot of grammatical mistakes, and have tried talking to him in the language. He always answers me in English, even when I ask him not to. This seems like a small thing, but I don't know if this is another way of subtly making me feel stupid.

• He used to be funny and misanthropic in an amusing way, but he is becoming more and more simply nasty. He is pretty homophobic and is always so rude about women on TV. And in front of the DCs. He swears all the time in front of them and to them as well (e.g. what the fuck are you doing? or what is this fucking shite you're watching?) This sounds AWFUL when I see it written down.

This is so long, I'm trying to get it straight in my head. Is any of this so bad? I don't know if I'm even describing any of this in a way that makes sense. This is the problem - it doesn't make sense. I can't get a grip on what is wrong or why I am feeling this way. Can anyone help me at all?

It's not a good situation. If you don't feel able to leave for your own sake, perhaps consider the effect on your daughter - and your son. It's not good for one child to be praised while the other is put down.

You're obviously a competent resilient woman. It's just you married somebody dominant when young. But you don't sound as if you want to spend your life like this.

Good luck.

You're describing fairly classic emotional abuse I'm afraid and yes, it's bad. This man clearly despises women and you're the nearest one, closely followed by DD.

You've got the lot there... withdrawal of affection, insults your intelligence and abilities, isolates you within your community (the language thing), critical over petty things, no respect for your opinion. Even the way your relationship started. You were probably selected as someone who could be easily impressed, easily manipulated & didn't look too carefully behind the mask.

'Funny and misanthropic' is also a red flag. It's the old test of judging someone by how they treat those who are unimportant to them. If he derives satisfaction from insulting others and the misery of others - predatory self-esteem - that's a horrible character trait.

You're feeling this way because two of the effects of sustained emotional abuse are the creation of dependency and the crushing of spirit. That you're asking 'is this bad?' means your judgement has been manipulated.

I suspect that, if you get the motivation to 'LTB' it'll be because your DD is already suffering at his hands.

He sounds very unpleasant from what you have said about him here. It comes across as if he has no respect for women at all. He seems to see you as someone to provide children, and some income, and that is about it.

Yeah, all that sounds pretty crap.

subtle ? He's about as subtle as a brick

the man is overtly abusive, just because he doesn't do it in front of others doesn't lessen the impact

he is also abusing your children. ..making your son the golden child and scapegoating your daughter is highly damaging

this is not a marriage, it looks to me like a prison sentence

BTW... it sounds as though you were recruited, Henry VIII-like, to produce him a male heir. Now that you've done it... you and DD are surplus. Makes me wonder which misogynistic culture he is from.

Read back what you've just written and ask yourself whether you'd be happy if your Dd married someone like your husband. I wouldn't.

It's interesting that you say he is not unkind or abusive.
He is very much in control, isn't he?He controls your finances, your sex life, your opinions even.
In my opinion,it's more than unkind to speak to you and your DD in a belittling way.
Its more than unkind for him to disengage with family life, by shutting himself away to play with his computer.How is he a great father,exactly?
Abuse comes in many forms, from what you have written, he sounds emotionally and financialluy abusive.

I'm no expert, sure there will be more experienced posters along soon.

Nasty, sexist, homophobic bully.

The good news is that you are a highly qualified woman in her prime who can actually turn this whole mess around relatively quickly should you wish to do so. Do it and never look back.

As others have said, if you can't face doing it for yourself, do it for your dd. And your ds, actually, you don't want him following these footsteps, do you? And there is little less charming than a four year old using obscene language which they have learned through no fault of their own.

I can't believe you have described him as 'not unkind' in the title. He is unkind - and in lots of different ways. Doe you really believe he is not unkind?

He sounds awful, OP.

Op, mumsnet recommended I do the freedom programme. Apparently it is better in real life but if you can't attend in person take a look at the online free course. It helped me and should help you recognise different abusive behaviours your husband has.

Freedom programme.

Your husband is not a good father. Do you really want your children growing up with such a low opinion of women? Imagine your daughter with an abusive husband when she's older and your son with a wife he treats like shit. At the moment, this is the message they are receiving of what is normal. This is not normal.

The bit you said about jokes making you feel stupid, putting you down even when you were the breadwinner - my dad did this to my mum for about 15 years. They aren't together now but she has not gotten over the emotional abuse. She has had a breakdown, she has depression, she is a shell of her former self. All of her four children, including me, are still haunted by our pasts. Get out while you're still you and while your kids are still young.

Thanks so much everyone, it is strangely a relief to hear that I am not being oversensitive or making a mountain out of a molehill.

It's confusing because he doesn't ever get angry or shout. Everything is "just a joke". The children aren't afraid of him at all. He doesn't stop me from going out with friends or anything like that. In fact he's encouraging me to go abroad for a friend's wedding in the spring. But I worry that his little "jokes" and nitpicking chip away at their confidence.

I have to go out now. I have a lot to think about.

I lifted this typical questionnaire from a web page at random.... The highlights are mine.

Questionnaire: Are You Being Emotionally Abused?
Answer the following questions to help determine whether or not you are being emotionally abused in your relationship.

1. Do you feel as if your partner treats you like a child? Does he constantly correct you or chastise you because your behavior is “inappropriate”? Do you feel you must “get permission” before going somewhere or before making even the smallest decisions? Do you have to account for any money you spend, or does he attempt to control your spending (even through he has no problem spending on himself)?

1. Does your partner treat you as if you are “less than” or inferior to her? Does your partner make a point f reminding you that you are less educated or that you make less money or that you aren’t as attractive as she is?

1. Does your partner routinely ridicule, dismiss, or disregard your opinions, thoughts, suggestions, and feelings?

1. Does your partner constantly belittle our accomplishments, your aspirations, or your plans for the future?

1. Do you find yourself “walking on eggshells?” Do you spend a lot of time monitoring our behavior and/or watching for your partner’s bad moods before bringing up a subject?

1. Have you stopped seeing many or all of your friends and/or family since being in this relationship? Did you do this because your partner dislikes them, because your partner feels jealous of the time you spend with them, or because you are ashamed of the way he treats you in front of them? Did you stop seeing friends and family because you are ashamed of the fact that you’re still with him, even though you’ve complained to them many times about the way he treats you?

1. Does your partner usually insist on getting her own way? Does she want to be the one to decide where you will go, what you will do, and whom you will do it?

1. Does your partner punish you by pouting, by withdrawing from you, by giving you the silent treatment, or by withholding affections or sex if you don’t do things his way?

1. Does your partner frequently threaten to end the relationship if you don’t do things her way?

link

Wow, I get 6 definite yeses and 2 half yeses to that questionnaire cogito . That really shocks me

I'm sorry if you're shocked. But the fact that there is a questionnaire in the first place should tell you that emotionally abusive people like your DH are unfortunately not all that rare. The thing underpinning all the above behaviour is 'control'. Emotional abuse is also known as 'coercive control' for that reason.

Sadly, you are unlikely to be able to change his behaviour. He already rejects your opinion and disregards your unhappiness. Joint counselling is not recommended where this kind of behaviour is present. However, individual counselling for you may be beneficial to a) work out why you tolerate the treatment and b) transition to independence.

You're not a naïve, insecure 20yo any more. In fact, he's the one who is insecure and dependent. He knows that one day you'll wake up and realise this 'amazing man' is just a fat old, impotent blow-hard....

A relationship where you feel confused and unhappy, is not a relationship you should be in.

Listen to your feelings: they are telling you something important.

A relationship where you are undermined and insulted; where your finances are controlled by another; where you are ignored when it suits and dealt with when it suits, all on the other person's terms; and where you feel unable to stand up for yourself and always made to feel in the wrong, is an emotionally abusive relationship.

I am glad that the way he treats your DD has gotten your ire up. Realise that you, too, deserve better treatment.

This man really is about as subtle as 100 weight of prunes.

This is really all about power and control; your DH wants absolute over you all. His behaviours towards you all is really abusive at its heart and no he is not a good dad at all to your children.

What is in this relationship for you now; amongst other things there is no intimacy, there is his financial abuse of you, he talks down to you and responds to you in English, there is the ways in which he speaks at (the word at rather than to is deliberate) the children. He will damage the relationship between your DD and her brother if he is at all allowed to carry on like this. He will turn your son into the Little Emperor; a role he was likely given by his own parents as well. He hates women too, all of them.

He met you when you were quite young as well and also had no real life experience behind you. I think as well he has further taught you to become people pleasing (to him) and co-dependent. You were targeted by him I am sorry to say and there were red flags there re this relationship in the early days. These were unfortunately simply not recognised.

You and he should not be together now. What do you think your children are learning about relationships here?. That answer is a shedload of damaging lessons.

And as for this quaint notion of fixing this. Well you cannot fix this on your own and he has exactly what he wants; i.e. all of you under his control. You cannot "fix" a relationship on your own or change someone like this; the only thing you can really do going forward is to completely separate from him.

I would also think your "love" for him is more rooted now in co-dependency than anything else. It is never possible to have a relationship with someone like your man because he always moves the goalposts in the relationship.

You are not as powerless as you think you are and you still have a choice re this man. Your children do not.

He sounds horrible.

I really really am not xenophobic... I promise... but, can I ask, are his attitudes towards women and homosexuality more accepted in the country where you now live?

I'm not saying that the UK is the best in terms of equality but some countries can be worse, and if he's in his 'home' country where others reinforce these opinions I don't think you've got any hope of changing them at all.

Your thread title is incorrect: he is abusive and he is unkind. Why do you think your first move was to try and deny both those things?

Would you have felt more comfortable if we had told you that your feelings were the problem, and given you (magic wand) solutions for you to stop feeling overpowered and confused by a man who actively tries to overpower and confuse you?

Your feelings are legitimate. You feel overpowered and confused, because he is constantly seeking to overpower you. (and your DC).

People who manage relationships in terms of power and control are not people you can have a healthy relationship with.

I don't know if anyone else had the first gut instinct when reading your op but it jumped out at me that he could be gay and is deeply ashamed so to deflect attention he puts you down so your mind is filled with changing yourself rather than looking closely at him. The fact that the only times you have had sex was to conceive your children so in his mind he looks to the outside world like a straight father. The homophobia could also be a mask to deflect attention from him.

Good points, Beinghere

And the money control, that makes me shiver. He doesn't stop you going out with friends? Have you any idea how screwed that statement is? Yet he could since he controls all the money.

Get control of your finances. Insist on it. If he is slow to respond, point out this is the 21st century and you are not (I think?) living in Saudi. Just insist. You are equal adults and he has trained you a bit too well for my liking.

Listen to these wise ladies, they can help you change this if you want to.

I immediately thought gay too.