DH isn't abusive or unkind but I feel overpowered and confused by him. Help!

[adifferentnameforme]

I am feeling really confused about my marriage, and I really want to get an outside perspective on how I can fix things (or not). I need an outsider's perspective. I don't have any close family (only child, only my mum left and she is not someone to discuss problems with) or close friends sadly. He is so subtle that I can't decide whether any of the things he does are deliberate or if they even exist but I feel all the time like I am going a bit crazy.

Backstory: I met my DH when I was 22 and he was 33. At that age, I was extremely immature, unconfident and insecure and only just really learning who I was. We were married 2 years later, and now we've been married for 15 years (I'm 40 now). We have two children aged 10 and 4. He's an amazing man, extremely intelligent, not from the UK, lived in many countries, speaks several languages fluently and several others well. He's a flamboyant and enthusiastic cook and makes friends with all kinds of people effortlessly. He was so different to anyone I'd ever met before and I adored him. We started out as friends but quickly fell in love and within weeks he said he was going to marry me.

I still love him very much and really don't want to hurt him. He's a great father (apart from one thing I write about below) and the children adore him.

And yet I feel like I want to get away from him because he kind of sucks all the life out of me. Currently I've been able to be a SAHM for a while I am very grateful for, but I'm now wanting to go back to work because I need some independence and interaction with other people.

The key issues:

• We haven't had sex for 4 years. Yes, YEARS. Basically the last time was when DS was conceived. The same happened after DD was born. We didn't have sex for years until it was convenient to have a second child. This makes me feel desperately unhappy to be honest. I've tried to talk to him about it but he says he just doesn't feel like it because he's overweight. He says he still thinks I'm attractive but he has no sex drive. That's the end of the discussion. We're basically roommates at this point and he's fine with that.

• He controls all our finances, even when I was the breadwinner for the family. When we moved to this country, he knew the country and the language and I was overwhelmed with my first baby, so I just left him to it. Until recently, my name wasn't even on our bank account. We now have a joint account but I don't have my own credit card, he controls that.

• He talks to me as though I am stupid. Very subtly and it's made out to all be jokes. But it undermines my confidence and I find myself becoming this dizzy chaotic silly person that he treats me like, even though I have a PhD and as I said kept the family afloat while he retrained. Because we live abroad, my career basically died and I haven't been able to find a job that I love, but I have slogged away and earned good money anyway.

• (This is a biggie for me): He talks to DD the same way. This slightly teasing, jokey but insidious "you are so stupid" tone. I really can't describe it better than that. He thinks that DS is "intellectual" (he's 4!) and DD isn't. I really dislike the way he speaks to her more and more. He is getting much worse as she gets older. He is a teacher and always talking about how ditsy the girls he teaches are and how DD is just like them. And he always seems to be picking on her, just finding something wrong to comment on.

• When I try to discuss anything with him, I always end up feeling confused and wrong. I can't explain it, but somehow it all turns around to where his point of view is the right one and I somehow had it all a bit wrong. I try so hard to stand up for myself and be assertive but I get myself all turned around and dizzy almost every time. I end up feeling guilty for even thinking whatever point I wanted to make. If he does concede he makes a big deal about how he is doing what I want.

• He's totally self-absorbed. He has an office in our apartment where he spends at least 80% of the time he is at home. Sometimes he is working, but equally often he's playing computer games or streaming TV shows. He's totally disinterested in buying anything for the children or taking photographs or improving our living situation. I had to fight for YEARS to buy DD her own bed. The only pictures I have of myself when I was pregnant last time are selfies.

• He has continuously refused to talk to me in the language of the country we live in. I have learned the language, even though I make a lot of grammatical mistakes, and have tried talking to him in the language. He always answers me in English, even when I ask him not to. This seems like a small thing, but I don't know if this is another way of subtly making me feel stupid.

• He used to be funny and misanthropic in an amusing way, but he is becoming more and more simply nasty. He is pretty homophobic and is always so rude about women on TV. And in front of the DCs. He swears all the time in front of them and to them as well (e.g. what the fuck are you doing? or what is this fucking shite you're watching?) This sounds AWFUL when I see it written down.

This is so long, I'm trying to get it straight in my head. Is any of this so bad? I don't know if I'm even describing any of this in a way that makes sense. This is the problem - it doesn't make sense. I can't get a grip on what is wrong or why I am feeling this way. Can anyone help me at all?

I haven't anything useful to add, but wanted to let you know that I am reading and sending you support.

I've just read through your thread. What an awful excuse for a man he is. How damaging for you and your DC to live in this toxic and controlling environment.

Lots of your posts have made me shake my head. This sentence in your latest post - He loves to live in a mess, takes great pride in telling other people how messy our flat is. Which makes me feel like shit is very telling. Not only does he treat you like shit within the home, but he is at pains to point out to others how you, as a SAHM, are incapable of running a tidy or clean home. Of course, it's his responsibility as much as yours, but he wants others to see you in a negative light. I very much doubt that is the only negative thing he says about you to other people.

I'm so pleased that you are taking steps to become independent. It can't come too quickly. Your dd in particular, needs to live the remainder of her childhood away from his damaging influence, with your positive example of what a normally functioning adult is. Well done for moving forward. I hope your friend is supportive. I hope also that she has already recognised him for what he is and so can validate the opinions on here more.

Is your aunt still in your life? If so, it might be worth talking to her about this. Perhaps your mum too? Although as you are not close I could understand if you are reluctant to.

Yes, people are reading. You write whatever you want, let it out. It seems to be getting you somewhere.

Clearly DS should have his own room, but I expect it suits your H to keep him in with you. It is all designed around him And what suits him.

I am reading your posts too op and sending you virtual support

Can you get your money back? Tell him you want it in an account in your name? Maybe say you thought it was going in your joint account, not that he would put it in his account?

I'm keeping up to date. All the best with your escape.

I think you should ask for your money back too. You can pass it off as a misunderstanding of which a/c it was going into. It's difficult, when you're with an abuser. But if you don't make a stand somewhere, and you can do this gently, then you have less than zero chance of getting it back.

I've done that "you idiot" thing too. I didn't get my money back but i wasn't ready to fight him for it and then it gets to be too late. Sometimes it's worth the price to just be rid of them, eh? Depends how much of course.

He really is a nasty, abusive, despicable being, different ...

I had a wobbly day yesterday. I feel so insecure about my ability to survive in this country and life alone. But coming back to this thread and reading makes me feel stronger.

Yes having DS in bed with us not only keeps sex off the agenda, it even keeps discussion of sex off the agenda. Neither of us has to face the elephant in the room.

His "office" is stuffed from floor to ceiling with books and paper and folders. Sometimes the floor is literally full of trash because he just throws rubbish on the floor. I don't want any of that in our bedroom. I tried to persuade him to get rid of some books etc or even put them into storage but he absolutely refused and said the only option would be the bedroom so I said no way. I'd much rather have DS snuggles than all his clutter in my face. At least in his office he is contained and separate. But yes, it's totally about what's best for himself.

I was thinking this morning about the suggestion that he just wanted a son. I don't think it's that at all. He's as snide to DS as to DD sometimes. He really wasn't bothered about having a second child and kept putting me off. But I didn't want DD to be an only child and managed to get some action for a few months.

I read the link someone previously posted about the headworker and yes that's him. Right down to always using pet names which are slightly derogatory, never uplifting. I gasped when I read that.

OP, get your hands on the paperwork asap and make copies of all the important stuff, savings, etc.

He will soon guess you are starting to question your marriage and your access to these documents will be gone.

Good luck to you!

Hiya adifferent, I'm not sure if you've been following another thread on here by Freespirited, Can't do this anymore.....Hypercritical DP? She posted a very interesting link to an article on Stockholm Syndrome,

drjoecarver.makeswebsites.com/clients/49355/File/love_and_stockholm_syndrome.html

I think you might find it interesting too, it explains a lot.

You said in your OP " I still love him very much......he's a great father"

Do you really still believe that? And yes, still sleeping with a child of 4yrs is very telling indeed. X

I just came in to post that link chimi.

Also reading and thinking of you. Organise that coffee with your friend as soon as you can. I would also bet your DH doesn't actually look like that model as husband to other people and later on they'll tell you that.

He does sound abusive to me. Just because it is a common dynamic - man logical, man correct, woman irrational, man work, woman SAH, etc etc etc - doesn't mean it's right or okay. I see this dynamic a lot and it makes me sad. In short, he doesn't see you as his equal, and that would be a deal breaker for me.

Hey Delicious ; ) Actually it explains a lot re my, now estranged, mother and I'm sure many, many people can identify with aspects of this article.

So thankyou Freespirited! Much appreciated : )

I realise you probably have already realised this, but I have to echo everyone else and say, yes he is abusive.

I grew up in a house like this, with the dynamic Bigpaws has just described so succinctly. It really was awful, and gave me some awful messages about how it is acceptable to be treated and how to set boundaries. Ie Dad is always right. Complaining or dissent is selfishness and overemotional nonsense. It is hugely damaging.

You feel wobbly about your own abilities because this is what he has told you. That you are stupid, and can't cope. And of you hear it enough you believe it. But it is not true. He is the inadequate one. Create your own internal story, try to recognise and challenge the voice in your head that is really his voice. You can do it.

Dear god OP I have just read your thread and he sounds horrendous! You need to speak to your friend or your therapist about the situation asap so it's out in the open in the real world.

Could I really, really recommend that you get a 'grab box' together with all your important paperwork, eg passports for you and the kids, driving licence, bank and employment records. He is not going to like you getting stronger and it'll just give you that bit of security knowing you and the kids can leave immediately if need be. You could even give some of it to a trusted friend for safe keeping. ( I have just done one for myself )

You need to believe in yourself, he has done everything possible to erode your self worth but you've seen through it. Leave.

Hello OP,
Firstly, can I say how sorry I am you find yourself in this situation. Secondly, you found mumsnet! I mean that absolutely.
I posted here for the first time two or three short months ago, in a situation not dissimilar to yours. The details were subtly different, but the essence was the same - I was in a relationship with a controlling man. I find it hard still to call it abuse, as so many mumsnetters pointed out, but posting here and reading those responses helped clarify that yes, it was abuse. As a result of years of insidious, demeaning, bullying, controlling techniques, we lose the faith to trust ourselves and call it what it is. Of course, there is the shame, too. Undeserved, but we are masters of guilt, aren't we?
I don't know how many years it would have continued, but one day, he turned on our little boy, just 4. I won't go into details, but I suddenly realised, with absolute clarity, that living this way was going to negatively affect my child in so many ways. Would my delightful, sunny boy feel it was OK to put women down, to comment on their appearance, to make judgements, knowing nothing of them? Would his respect for me diminish as he saw a) how his father treated me and b) how I failed to defend myself... and him? It was a shocking, horrible wake up call.
I posted on here, still defending him, still doubting what should have been clear. Listen to these wise ladies - they have the benefit of perspective, and distance, and experience.
I move out in a weeks time, into rented accomodation. My DS and I will have to budget, but our money will be our own to earn and spend. I can work harder, knowing the money I earn is for the life I want us to live.
It took posting here, using my friends and family, even confiding in my DS's teacher, finding out cold hard facts, to get me to this point.
I got good advice about finances and I know we will have enough to get by. I wake up at 3am, 4am, worrying about money, doing my budget for the millionth time. The unknown is very frightening - so get as much concrete information you can get. I bought a table from eBay - it represented tangible evidence of my new life to be and I would go outside and sit there, smelling the furniture polish, visualising the meals we would eat on it, the friends who would sit round it. It helped me, anyway...
Talk to people, keep talking. It is liberating, after years of feeling you cannot, whether because of fear, shame, or distrust of your own feelings.
Good luck, OP

i really feel for you op.....i don't know how you've managed to resist the temptation but if that were me, i'd be playing his game back at him - some may see it as immature but i'd mimic back to him the way he talks to me, give him a derogatory nickname and use it when he used it on me, answer him back EXACTLY the way he talks to me and the kids....and i'd get assertive with the money issue. open your own separate account and demand your money back........also, if you haven't already done so i would start separating your finances, i.e all child benefit/tax credit etc goes into the separate account.

as for him playing 'mr wonderful'....i'd wait until the next time he makes some arsey comment in front of people and then very oh-so-casually-in-a-jokey-way state the fact about ds not having a bedroom BECAUSE of his selfish ways...about grandmother having to buy a bed for dd BECAUSE of his selfishness.....about him forcing his family to live in an extremely untidy and unhygienic home.

my dad used to behave in pretty much the same way when i was growing up....it makes me sooooo mad on your behalf op!

list of pros and cons? He is fiftyish, obese, nasty, controlling, selfish, a hoarder. Sorry, I can't think of any positives.

Just delurking to say it is lovely to see your awakening, OP. And yes I am another reading every word.

Wishing you strength OP - we're all right behind you, reading every word and quietly cheering you on

It is easier to make a change when you know what the future would be like.

Find out everything about how you would live in this country without him. Every little detail. Housing, benefits, bank account, moving out, solicitors, divorce law, where you will have coffee with friends, etc.

You are all so kind and I am touched by all your posts. Once again I wish I could answer individually but it would take too long and privacy is an issue.

I have indeed been following FreeSpirited's thread since she began. And that article on Stockholm syndrome is amazing. So much of it sounds like me. Thanks so much for posting the link.

Three things stood out: feeling like your abuser is actually protecting you from outside forces, rather than keeping you prisoner. The avoiding of "Trouble". And feeling like "absence of abuse" counts as kindness - that especially stood out. I feel like I scratch around for signs of affection and when I get them it fires all my reward networks and it's like an addiction.

I feel totally flattened by this change in perspective. I'm trying to come to terms with it.

I think the thing that has hit me is that I can't discuss any of this with HIM. If I try, I am manipulated into feeling stupid or totally stonewalled. Surely if this was a normal relationship, we would discuss our problems and look for solutions????

Pros? There are pros. He does the majority of the shopping and cooking. He plays with the children and takes them swimming (not regularly though). When he wants to he can be lovely. It's confusing. I feel like I'm sucked into a black hole and I can't see a way to break the force field.

On a practical level I am taking everyone's advice and getting organized. My paperwork to receive unemployment and find a new job is sorted. I need to find out next about health insurance and savings account details. Child benefit unfortunately comes via DH's salary.

I do feel guilty though. I think a lot of this is my fault. I have had so many problems while we've been together with depression etc. and he always stayed by me. In many ways I willingly let him take over my life. I've always seen myself as the weak one in the relationship and him as the strong one. Yes I think he likes that I am submissive, but at the same time, I have allowed all this to happen and he's just carrying on as normal. I can't carry on like this though. I have to find my backbone somewhere.