Anyone else end up as an angry banshee after living with “Mr. Nice” = passive & irresponsible?

[Somethingtodo]

Anyone else been through this? I have just realised that this is the dynamic in my relationship – I have taken all the blame for our dysfunctional relationship because I got angry and angrier. I now don’t get angry but need to get divorced. However my 4 children (3 teens) can only see that I am the nasty one leaving their lovely kind Dad. How do I explain it to them – or do I not explain anything?
www.angriesout.com/couples8.htm
“One of the hardest patterns of behavior for all of us to deal with is passive aggressive behavior. Passive aggressive behavior happens when the person avoids responsibility and attempts to control others to keep them away through his passivity and withdrawal. It is a dynamic born of fear of being controlled, fear of confrontation, hidden anger and an inability to deal straight with people.
Passive aggressive behavior is complex and takes many forms. We all have passive behavior that comes up when we don't want to deal with conflict directly or do a task. We all hedge, fudge and remain noncommittal on issues some of the time. That's normal. It's only when repeated passivity creates severe issues for others setting up continual tension and anger in the household that it becomes a serious problem that should be addressed. Common examples of this habitual, passive retreat style of dealing with confrontation and stress include:
• The person who says one thing but means the opposite.
• The man who acts passive but aggressively gets his own way by not doing what is wanted.
• The person who fears self assertion and confrontation, but says no by sidestepping responsibility.
• Anyone in the family who creatively gets out of doing his or her part of the chores.
• The Mr. Nice Guy who puts on the sweet face to agree, then does what he darn well pleases.
• The parent who refuses to discipline the children and insists on the spouse being the ‘heavy.'
• The person who refuses to hear criticism, discuss his problems or read books about the issue.
• The not ready to be committed man wanting someone there for him but feels entitled to his freedom.
• Any individual who spends his effort into under achieving in school, in relationships and in life!
What all of these people have in common is that the significant people in their life become very, very angry at their resistant behavior. The negative energy in the relationship boomerangs from one partner to the other resulting in an unhappy relationship.
While women can have passive aggressive behavior, this condition is more typically found in men, therefore this article will focus on the typical male version of this dynamic. The typical passive aggressive man has not worked through his anger and power issues with his parents so he replays them in current relationships. His anger comes out in passive way of avoidance.

I had a four year relationship with a passive aggressive man who was also an alcoholic.

I ended up being so frustrated with his behaviour that I acted completely out of character and then took all the blame for the whole thing, obviously, because none of it could be his fault. He never got angry, himself. He just made everyone around him furious and upset, by his lateness, lying, non compliance and resistance to expectation.

He had and still has a victim mentality. It felt like I died when he left, but actually it was the best thing that could have happened to me as he was never going to change.

It really is like banging your head on some bricks. The only person hurting is you.

Oh my. I can add one more thing to my list of 'what the funk is wrong with my ex'...
For years I was totally convinced that if he could sort out his alcohol problem we would be ok. Two years of facing reality, helped by counselling, reading and thinking about things that happened made me slowly realise even without the drink he was a compulsive liar and a Narcissist.
Now reading this thread I can add passive aggressive to his character traits. He really is all those things all rolled together. It had never occurred to me that one person could be all these things at once.

No wonder I was so damn confused and hadn't a clue what to do.

Two years on from initial divorce papers and still married. Trying mediation for third time, possibly. Off to read the links above, thank you for those.

Op you sound so strong and determined, I wish you all the best luck with your children. Xx

greenberet, my XH was exactly the same - eventually had a massive strop and refused to communicate with my solicitor because he felt she had been rude to him! Ahh, petal. He was stupid enough to write that in an email, though. He divorced me as quickly and ruthlessly as possible, then prevaricated and stonewalled over reaching a financial settlement, because I wouldn't agree to what he wanted. I ended up having to go to FDR, where he arrived lawyered-up with a barrister, after previously insisting he was such a Master of the Universe that he could represent himself

He's now being a tw@t about child maintenance, so after giving him fair warning I've passed it onto the CMO. It will cost him an extra 20% if they collect the money on my behalf, but hey ho. He should cooperate when told to. I know it is unbelievably difficult, but try not to respond to your H's lack of response. All that PA men want is for you to get angry so that they can turn the tables and say you are being unreasonable. Just be factual - if you don't do x than I will do y. This is not a threat; it is the inevitable consequence of your behaviour.

Have faith; life gets better, though even now I don't think that my XH has fully grasped that he can't manipulate and control me any more....

PP mentioned the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" have had a look at the website - it explains how their PA approach to life negatively affects their careers, colleagues, friendships etc might be helpful for those who's OH want to change.....and also for us who are frustrated that others only every see the charm.

www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy/the-book.html

They also run a forum for the PA male
www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/

as well as one specifically for long suffering partmers
www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

I just said to dd1 'I'm reading a really interesting thread about passive aggressive men'

She said

'Oh you mean like dad'

She knows the score too! He used to make me sooooo agonisingly aware of the ENORMOUS sacrifice he made if he had to miss a sports session to fetch HIS OWN CHILD from school, but because he can't be seen as the bad guy EVER (I mean it is so in built that he does it with such skill and ease he doesn't even have to think) he ended up driving a whole family of randomers (dd2s friend from school) to a town about an hour away for their own child's birthday celebration. ??

Gah

It makes you properly insane

My extremely lovely neighbour once came over and said I haven't said anything to him because I know what it's like, but you left your front door open today. I shut it for you. He had heard me screaming like a loon so many times and he still knew the score... People do know...

Something

Sorry for lazy quick messages yesterday. I just wanted to say I am just so impressed that you have left after so long... You might be worried about what messages you've sent your kids over a long period but ending it sends a really really strong message that you can leave a shit situation.

He resents feeling dependent on the woman so must keep her off guard. He makes his partner feel like a nothing through his neglect or irritability but he keeps her around because he needs her. His script is ‘Be here for me, but don't come too close and don't burden me with your needs or expectations.'

This was my life. Actually most of what you posted could have been it really.

So is he still on the sofa?

I have not rtft all the way through... but..

my ex, whom I still have to deal with. does not quite fit the criteria, but your title definitely describes me.

he is weird. can't quite put my finger on it really. there is possibly a bit of asd traits going on. (he is so like ds who does have a diagnosis) there is male superiority.. definitely.. (insert several swear words as to what I think of that. there is a bit of premie going on... loss of executive function. but he sure as hell copes at work... because that is important to him and he can organise his own stuff that is important to him.

he does not care enough to bother about things that bother me or the children. . eg:
putting a bag in the bin before dropping his snotty tissues in... leaving stuff in front of the changing mat so I tripped carrying small babies.
putting a pirce of cloth over ds's willy so that ds would not wee on his own head when he took the nappy off. ds did manage to wee on h though, and on h's stuff not leaving vegetable knives point up in the
drying rack... not having hte window open with toddlers on the second floor...

leads to me ranting at him as he has done it several times before. and just does not care to remember.

he was also agressive aggresive though to...

With regards to "Mr Nice Guy" syndrome - I'm definitely on the list.

I'm not sure where you live but there is a meeting group in London (possibly other cities) that offer help and discuss this. I don't think it is exclusively men only but try and talk your DP into at least reading the book. He might go "Oh.. that's me.." and then go from there.

He won't be able to change on his own though, that is clear, but encourage him to recognise the "symptoms".

It's apparently an anxiety based disorder rooted to how he or even myself developed as child. Not being around men, abuse or something like that. It is used to avoid confrontation and based on wanting people to "like" us.

For me, I am going to work hard and get over this and the issues I have.

I have some podcasts to that I bought a few days ago from drglover.com (not selling his site!!) but they were great.

Message me if you need any more info but I really hope it all works out.

Six - he moved off the sofa and into his mothers 3 weeks ago - he comes to visit the children 7-8.30 each evening - and is here all day Sun 9-9 whilst I make myself scarce.

working OK as zero disruption for the children - routine will evolve as we all get used to it and sell house etc. I dont talk to him or have eye contact at the moment as I want to avoid me triggering into a rage. So we text. But been to Relate today and they suggested that I should not create this atmoshere for the kids (even if it is silence) - so I will say hello, do a handover. flash a smile and be on my way.

Wibble - I have already invested a lot in his rehabilitation - and he has not.

In a typical co-dep way I bought 2 copies of Living with the passive aggressive man" - sent him off for a weekend to a hotel to read it - whilst I stayed home with 4 kids and read it. Next step was to meet up and work thru chapter by chapter to see how we both saw the issues....he enjoyed the weekend alone in the hotel - read the book - said he recognised stuff but then refused to engage in discussing it with me and how we/he could address issues. I have sent him lnks to websites and begged him to go to counselling - he did 2 telephone sessions (this was a condition of him returning home when we separated last year) - then promptly stopped once he was back home.

I will send him the link to the No More Mr Nice Guy book (being seen as Mr Nice Guy is so critical to his existence so this will appeal), and the web site and resources as he needs to sort himself out for himself and also if he wants to have any sort of constructive relationship with his teenagers.

But there is no going back for me. The hostility was so abusive I was driven to real despair for 30 years - he cannot see that.

Both of his parents are alcoholics and his mother NPD so explains how he came to be this way....but does not explain how he continues to be this way.

I have given him the tools, and time and time again he has chosen not to pick them up.

I think he is quite happy now that he can just swan in and out to visit the children - now he still gets to do nothing - but isnt nagged any more.

Delighted for him - he has won and achieved what he set out to do. Back home on the lash with his alcoholic mother in her filthy little flat.

I would argue something that if he hasn't used any of the tools thus far, don't buy him the book. Stop doing any of this stuff for him. He's got to want to. Buy it if you're interested yourself, but he's had enough opportunities to look at this stuff and if you expect any different with this one, you'll probably be disappointed. It might sound small but it's just another thing where you are trying to fix him. And you're not even together any more. Get the book if it helps YOU.

And definitely a hello and a smile and a goodbye is the way forward for his visits. Be extremely businesslike in this respect, like a receptionist

I meant don't send the link not don't buy the book.

Six - yes you are correct - it is me being co-dep - he spends his life online - he can google / research when ever he likes.

I dont even want to read it for myself -- I know the syndrome inside out - I need to look more closely at my syndrome - co-dep - and focus on healing that otherwise the seething resentment and bitterness will not dissipate and I will be co-dep with someone else.

Yes like the receptionist idea.

This is also r eally important as you go along: his relationship with his children is HIS responsibility. You can create a context for it which you are doing, but beyond that it is his shit. If he carries on being PA and their relationship with their dad falls apart, that is not your fault or your responsibility to fix. Remember this while you watch it all unfold and desperately want to step in and fix it for their sake.

Great idea to work on the codependency... Glad to hear it. IT should also prevent you getting involved with any other such idiot while you are in a vulnerable position. I don't know what to suggest about the bitterness, there's something about being validated that helps with that, are you in counselling?

something one of the most useful exercises my counsellor ever gave me was to make a list of stuff that I didn't have to do for XH any more. It ranged fom the intimate to the mundane, such as not buy his nieces and nephews presents / not take his car to be MOTd. I look back at it now and am amazed that I ran around after him so much. It might help if you made a list, too. I remember him being utterly outraged when I told him to stop bringing his laundry on the weekends he visited DD. My washing machine; my electricity bill; my rules.

Blackeyed I remember that frustration so well. I once asked 'D'H in absolute desperation whether he ever had to plan ahead at work. He looked at me as though I was stupid (a speciality of his) and responded, Yes, all the time. Vast amounts.

So why can't you apply that to your personal life? I asked.

He never did, because he never wanted to. He had me to remember (or do) stuff for him

Yes I need to leave him to it. The relief for me is not having things I have already done undone or if he does some-thing it is done so badly it is more for me to unpick to put right. One of his classics is wiping down the work tops which involves finding a cold dirty greasy sloppy cloth and slopping it across the work tops leaving puddles of filth everywhere.....if he washed up or filled the dish washer it was crashing and banging for 20 mins in a temper.

Patterof - alcoholism also coloured our relationship and is inextricably tied with PA. Both his parents are/were alcoholics and he has/had a big drink issue. (i should say he is alcoholic - maybe i am still in denial there) i have started another thread about the drink specifically but I am struggling with my inability to forgive the alcohol stuff even tho things have improved.

We have been together 30 years. He had a big drink problem for over 20 years - gave up totally for 5 years - and is now drinking again (last 5 years) - but not so heavily as before. But I keep having flashbacks to the alcohol incidents - and wondering why I endured them at the time....does that mean I forgave that behaviour then ? but why am I looking back with anger. now...?

These are the flashbacks:

Me cowering and trying to cover for you whilst feeling deep shame, watching our friends wince with embarrassment when you were the only one really steaming drunk when we were out or when we entertained - slurring, dribbling, red-faced, eyes-rolling, head lolling, falling asleep at the dining table by 9.30, boring the arse of people, not being able to keep up with the conversation, falling over, dancing like a dick head.

Every, fucking, time. Me getting distressed and moody on every social occasion when you behaved like this - so never enjoying anything and creating an atmosphere with F&F.

Then next day your long lie ins and hours in the bath, reading the news papers detached emotionally and physically unavailable to us all (x4dcs) as you dealt with the hang-over so could not participate in normal family life - the fun stuff and the not so fun stuff (childcare/chores/decisions etc) - so I did this all alone with seething bitterness and contempt.

Your refusal to acknowledge that you had a drink problem (even though both of your parents are/were alcoholics) - because as you were able to (i.e. forced to) totally cut out drinking Sun-Th as you couldn't function at work with hangovers and you had already lost one job -- but from your pov it was fine to get hammered on Fri & Sat and to not function as a father or husband all weekend and on holidays. So you minimised and defined yourself as a "binge drinker" not an alcoholic. N.B. AA definition is that you have a problem when your drinking impacts/upsets those around you......it did, you knew that, and did not care.

The constant lying about how much you had drunk. Every single time. 'just had one bottle of red" - so who does the empty 2 litre bottle of cider below to?

The visual image of you behaving like this on our wedding night - you stayed up in friends bedroom until 6am and then zig-zagged along the hotel corridor then slumped to the floor at our door.

The time (or the only time I was aware of it at least) that you shat yourself due to being so pissed - we were alone in a foreign capital city and the rest of NYE was spent trying to find somewhere to clean you up and dump your pants.

The time when I had just given birth, asked you not to drink whilst looking after our PFB and went up to bed...came down at 4am to find baby stuck at end of sofa and you slumped drunk.

When I had gone away for 2 nights to a family wedding leaving you in sole charge of just turned 2yo, 3yo and 5 yo - and you triumphantly declared on my return that you were now teetotal - because, your words, "I thought - Great!! she is going away, no nag, nag, nag about drinking - I can get brilliantly plastered - so I did - but the next day i couldn't cope with the kids and though I would die" - I took this as a positive - and congratulated your efforts - i did not consider the risk you exposed our v young children to and I did not appreciate that I should never have left you with them. I am deeply ashamed of this.

For the 5 years you were dry - I strangely found it deeply irritating, i suppose it was admitting that you could not do moderation i.e. normal and that the problem and the label was 100% real. All or nothing Then you started drinking again, slowly at first and now heavyish - and lies are creeping back in again.

Loads of other hideous (non drink related) dreadful behaviour after the drinking subsided then crept in (or became more apparent) and I decided to divorce - but took you back as I knew that you would keep sliding and end up the lonely dirty alchi in a filthy little flat - and you would blame me (or I would take some responsibility) for this demise - and this was not the father I wanted for my x4 dc.

But it was just not working, i could not live lie - I despise and hate him for the historic alcoholism and have separated now for good.

Maybe the Q am asking is why can't I forgive myself for enduring/enabling for so long - and even though there is not an apparent drink problem now - I am unable to get over the past - both what he did and what I didn't do (i.e. walk)

this could be psychobabble crap, something. But is it possible you find it impossible to forgive yoruself partly because actually, it's the first time you've stood up and said to someone No, I will not be your carer? If all your conditioning is to be a carer ... actually breaking that conditioning is very hard. just maybe you're feeling guilty because of it. (as I say, could be way off the mark!)

Meera I don't think it is psychobabble at all - I do find it hard to walk away, not fix and not care....so the FOG descends I get befuddled and internally angry...just waking up to it all now really.

My XP, father of my 3 DC, was like your DH. I stayed in th erelationship for 15 years. After he'd gone it was like a breath of fresh air. I wasn't together enough to end the relationship prior to this.

Don't beat yourself up; just get on with the rest of your life.

My DC are now grown up - they understand their DFs faults but still love him and welcome contact from him. My anger towards him is now totally gone. I am too busy enjoying my life.

I am separated from a passive aggressive man. I haven't read the thread yet but I'm marking it to watch. Will read in a calm moment

Something

It sounds like you experienced a total nightmare for a really really long time

You actually have every right to be angry with him - it sounds like he just literally robbed you of so many years you should have enjoyed in your life with him. I also understand why you're angry at yourself, BUT go easy - you're clearly a very different person now than the one who stayed in that relationship and wanted to fix it. At the time, you were doing what you thought was best, with the knowledge, tools and baggage you had. Now you're doing what you think is best, and it's different, because you've changed and you've learnt and you're still learning. Be kind to your past self, sympathise with her... The shit she put up with has made you the stronger self you are now...

Haven't read all the posts, but so much resonates with me too. For 10 or so years, I thought I was going mad. He wouldn't come home at a reasonable hour, didn't make any contribution to anything he didn't want to, then would waft in as he chose playing Mr Amazing. I'm still living under the same roof as him (he cheated) as I can't afford to move on at the moment, hasn't said sorry, or explained himself. And he's not going to, is he? I finally understand his behaviour at least, and know it wasn't me at all.

I'm so much happier not engaging with him at all. I feel sane, and although I'm angry underneath, I'm no longer exposed to his passive-aggression. So bloody liberating!

notsgoldenoldie - I am glad you have seen the light and found some peace and release from your temp arrangements - when do you think that you can be fully free? ... or will the "emotional divorce" like PP strawberry (21/1) be longish term?

six yes I need to try to come to terms with my previous self - the quote from link is helping me:

"She was taught in her family of origin to accept a high level of frustration for a minimal level of love and caring"

My childhood was v tough....and I walked from that straight into this co-dep/alcoholic/PA dysfunctional dynamic whilst still at school - and really believed I could make it work -- but did not see STBXH issues at the time - tried to fix his alcoholic father and mother - without recognising that he was also afflicted.

... and now he's a big problem all on his own and his behaviour has far from fixed, it's damaged you and the kids.

out of interest, were there any signs that he was like this when you first got together, if you had had the experience then to spot it? or is it something that developed once he was firmly in your life? Just wondering if it's something that you can detect up front, if you know what to look for, or not.

something I feel freer already, because, thanks to Mumsnet, the scales have fallen from my eyes and I am slowly coming to terms with things as they are. My issues are now mainly practical: when can I afford to move on; how do I tell dd (for, indeed, it will be me doing the telling); how can I reinvent myself having only worked casually for the last 10 years or so; and, finally, how can I cope with the anger and betrayal and turn it into something positive. I've also realised that, by cheating, he has done me a favour: I have been forced to look at my life and future in a different light and I am making strides already in terms of new friends, social life and (hopefully) work opportunities. I'm luckier than some, though.