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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Marriage - I need to understand why I feel like this so that I can explain it.

200 replies

feelingunsupported · 03/01/2015 00:23

I want to get married. Dp doesn't.

I've read lots of threads that start like this but I'm stuck and upset because for some reason I have changed my mind about marriage and I'm not sure why.

I've always firmly believed that marriage wasn't important. That its how you feel about someone that is important but since I had ds 3 years ago I have wanted us to get married.

Dp says I'm unfair because we agreed that we felt the same way about marriage when we got together and I guess he is right -I'm trying to move the goal posts and that's not fair. But I can't help feeling like this and it's causing rows. It is the only thing we row about.

My reasons for wanting to get married are:
Commitment (even though we own our home and have ds together. I still just want the commitment and can't really explain why)
Surname - I stupidly agreed to ds having dps surname and I hate having to say 'I'm xx xx, yy yy's mum'
Financial - dp and I both have teachers pensions but, if anything happens to one of us I guess it just disappears - I don't think the other can claim it
Partner - I don't like using the word partner and like boyfriend / girlfriend even less - we're in our 30's and 40's

Dp's reasons for not getting married:
He doesn't want to.

I know there's no compromise. I've come to bed upset after seeing 2 wedding announcements on the dreaded facebook and fancied a rant and a little cry

OP posts:

NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 05/01/2015 14:41

How did things go OP?

ARGHtoAHHH · 05/01/2015 21:39

Hello op

I've been lurking on the thread but haven't posted. I'm in a similar situation. Just wondering how you got on. Hope it went well.

Original poster

feelingunsupported · 07/01/2015 15:46

Hi All - sorry, I've not been staying away on purpose - I've just not had much head space.

We had the chat (well, we've had a few...) and we're not really on the same page.

I know that lots of replies on here have been about the legalities and practicalities (and I appreciate them a lot - DP certainly wasn't aware of most of them and they've allowed me to go at this with slightly less emotional rage!) but first and foremost I've been leading this with my heart and that's made it difficult for DP.

He doesn't really do emotion (sees things totally in black and white) and I've struggled before with the lack of emotional support from him. Don't get me wrong - I know that he loves me and he demonstrates that but he doesn't get why I might be upset etc.

DP read the letter - and came back with 'if it's what you want we can get married' and 'I have no real problem with getting married if it stops you being upset' WOOHOO you might say - she got what she wanted etc. But it's not - and DP can't understand that.

Yes, I want the legal protection etc that marriage offers but I also need it to be for love, committment, to celebrate our relationship, to demonstrate a bond within our little family... him agreeing the way he has means that there'd be no joy or celebration in it and that's not what want.

I know that I will sound 'princessy' to some of you - and that's a million miles from the truth - I'm not arsed about a big proposal or fairytale do but I don't want to always think 'he married me to shut me up'.

OP posts:

Chunderella · 07/01/2015 15:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ARGHtoAHHH · 07/01/2015 15:57

You sound exactly like me, op. I'm really sorry that's the way it went for you. It's heartbreaking isn't it? We did get engaged but I called it off after a few months because of this very reason. He was only doing it to shut me up. I was heartbroken.

Together 15 years and he always says "one day" but the day never comes, and it's clear it isn't what he wants and even if he asked me now, it's too bloody late. I am seriously thinking of leaving him (to be clear, not for the marriage reason although that does have its part to play). He is emotionally distant, cannot support me emotionally and it's starting to kill me.

I don't have any advice for you, only . All the very best to you.

Twinklestein · 07/01/2015 16:21

I understand that what he said is not exactly what you wanted to hear, but at this point I think you have to accept that for him, marriage is not about 'commitment, demonstrating a bond, celebration', he's never ever going to see it like that. If he is going to respect your wish to be married (I understand why you would prefer if it was a little more enthusiastic), I think you need to respect that for him, marriage simply does not signify what it does to you.

You're on different pages about what marriage means and I think at this point asking him to change his view of marriage so that he sees it your way is not realistic. And bound to lead to more upheaval.

I have to say that marriage for me is a legal and financial contract, it's not really about love or commitment - that can exist or not exist independently of a marriage contract.

kaykayred · 07/01/2015 17:04

OP - With your update, I think this is as far as it will go. You have three choices.

Don't get married, because you don't want to feel as if you have dragged him into it, but remain in the relationship because - on balance - you feel you are happier within it. Also: if you go down this route seriously discuss changing your child's surname to at least a double barrelled name (since again, you mentioned that bothered you a lot).
Get married, but accept that it is never going to mean the same to him as it does to you. This can take a while to get over. You won't get the romantic proposal or wedding that you might want (note: by "romantic" I am not talking about a huge expensive wedding with all the trimmings. I mean the atmosphere and the feelings of the people involved. Whether that's 4 people or 400).
Decide that actually, you want to be with someone who will actively want to marry you, and do so with the same heartfelt emotion as you feel. This means ending the relationship since you both have fundamentally opposed views to what marriage is.

I would add to this that my partner and I also have very different views on marriage and weddings, and are getting married in the spring. To me marriage is about a declaration of love, a social promise in front of each other and family, as well as the legal and financial security it brings. They are all equally important to me, and I couldn't be with someone in the long term who didn't want to marry.

To my partner, marriage is a legal commitment, period. I know for a fact he would be happy to stay together without ever getting married, as he doesn't see marriage as a bench mark of commitment. The only reason we are doing it is because a) He respects that it is much more important to me and wants me to be happy, and b) I refuse to have children before being married, and we both want children.

It did hurt at the beginning when I'd ask him what he was most excited about or how he felt about getting married, and all I got were unexcited, non plussed answers. But in the end, if the intentions are good you just have to let it go.

Iggi999 · 07/01/2015 17:48

He says he will marry you to stop you being upset. That could be interpreted as shutting you up, or him sacrificing his own wishes to make you happy!
I think you could call his bluff so to speak and start arranging things. He might get into it/really love the day/ love that he has a wife. I surprised myself at how much I got into it all despite having never been interested in marriage.

angeltulips · 07/01/2015 17:57

I do think you're being a little precious. He is willing to compromise to pay respect to your wishes. That's actually what being married is about, when it comes down to it.

Coyoacan · 07/01/2015 19:03

I have to say that marriage for me is a legal and financial contract, it's not really about love or commitment - that can exist or not exist independently of a marriage contract

I agree Twinklestein. The only other reason for marriage, IMHO, is if that what your religion requires.

You say he loves you, you have a child and a home together, so you have the love and you have the commitment. The marriage would probably be a good idea from a legal and financial point of view, and in that sense go for it, but he still has the feelings about marriage that you both shared when you got together.

Don't let this desire for a special day ruin what you have. I got married and the next day was the same as the day before, it doesn't change anything that really matters.

AlphaBravoHenryFoxtons · 07/01/2015 19:04

If you do decide to leave him, I would advise you marry him first.

ArghAhhh You too.

They may beg you to please not leave the marriage. And so will begin the basis of a proper relationship with a very necessary ceding of power from them to you.

AlphaBravoHenryFoxtons · 07/01/2015 19:07

If you are going to marry someone, you may as well throw in a bit of romance, all you have to do is bend your knee and say some stuff. It would be over in about 7 minutes.

mix56 · 07/01/2015 19:58

kaykayred says it very well.
Just get married, he says he will, You get the legal stuff sorted.
1 the rest is a compromise? So be it....
he doesn't do fairy tales, but he may be pleased in the end .....
Say YES & get on it !

Bakeoffcakes · 07/01/2015 20:13

I think it's a positive thing that he said he would get married as previously he was very against it, so he had done a complete upturn and agreeed to marry you. I'd do it get married in a small ceremony and you will get the security you deserve and the name you want.

Coyoacan · 07/01/2015 20:14

If you do decide to leave him, I would advise you marry him first

How romantic and committed!

tumbletumble · 07/01/2015 20:26

My earlier post on this thread was along the lines of - you want to, he doesn't, why should he get his own way? Now he's effectively agreed that his position is not fair on you. I think he's being reasonable. I agree with other posters that getting him to fundamentally alter his lifelong view of marriage may be a step too far.

Thumbwitch · 07/01/2015 21:38

All right, I am going to say yes, I think you're being a little princessy and illogical.

You've SAID he "doesn't really do emotion". You've SAID he doesn't emotionally support you. You KNOW these things. So why are you expecting him to completely change over this one issue? He's not going to! He CAN'T.

'if it's what you want we can get married' and 'I have no real problem with getting married if it stops you being upset '
Either accept his agreement to do it, because he's doing it to try and support your feelings - your wants and your emotional upset - in the best way he knows how. He's black and white, he doesn't do emotion, he can't pretend an enthusiasm he doesn't feel!!

FGS, you want something you're never going to get from this particular man - so either accept it on his terms or spend the rest of your life chasing rainbows and end up miserable and resentful because he isn't the person you want him to be.

Weathervain · 07/01/2015 22:03

I think you are being a bit unreasonable to expect him to be as fired up about this as you and invest all his emotion in an institution he doesn't agree with and never will. The fact that he is prepared to get married shows his commitment to you and to giving you some financial and emotional peace of mind. Let it be enough. It's really not that important and I think you have got a bit fixated on the marriage side maybe because you are really wanting much more in the way of emotion from him?

Some men and women are not overtly emotional and never will be but their commitment is there for all to see. There was an old film where the heroine says to the hero at the end, we may not have the moon but we can have the stars or some such gump! Perhaps that should be enough?

Weathervain · 07/01/2015 22:05

To clarify. Accept his offer, arrange a quiet wedding and put the whole thing to bed.

BeCool · 07/01/2015 22:12

your DP has said that he will marry you if that is what you want. He is willing to do it for you.

But you want him to want to get married - which is expecting him to change on a fundamental level. With what you have said about him (ie him seeing things in black and white) it sounds like this is going to be hard to achieve.

I don't know any people who would enjoy being forced to want something they really don't want.

Accept his agreement to marry, organise a low key affair & celebrate in a way you know you will both enjoy and go for it.

fakenamefornow · 07/01/2015 22:31

I actually think he's doing the right thing by you here. He's said he'll get married as he can see how much it means to you. That looks like love to me, he's doing something really major, that he doesn't really want to do, because he can see how important it is to you. Hopefully on the day he'll be really happy for nothing other than the fact that it's making you happy.

Plan your wedding do it quick and enjoy the day.

SolidGoldBrass · 08/01/2015 00:07

You mention that you have 'struggled with the lack of emotional support' from this man in the past. Do you mean that he ignores your distress, teases you when you are unhappy, gets irritable if you are worried about something? Or that he is simply a reserved type of person ie not interested in discussing feelings but demonstrably cares about you in that he will buy you a thoughtful gift when you are sad, or deal with a worrying problem in a practical way?
He's agreed to get married because he knows that you want to, and he understands the practical aspects better now - but if he's not a sentimental, 'romantic' type of person then you can't expect him to start gushing about it. If he has ethical or philosophical objections to marriage (as some people do) then he is doing a kind and loving thing by setting his principles aside to make you happy, and it's a bit unfair to expect him to start performing soppiness as well.
However, if his 'lack of emotional support' means that he is generally indifferent to how you are feeling and expects you just to get on with housework/childcare/daily life no matter what, then maybe you should ask yourself why (other than for the much-discussed legal and practical reasons) you're so desperate to marry him.

ARGHtoAHHH · 08/01/2015 09:37

This is a really important point. Your answer will tell you whether you are being emotionally abused or not. And even if you are not - can you imagine spending the rest of your life without emotional support from your significant other? This is the quandary I am in right now.

Also:

Alpha: If you do decide to leave him, I would advise you marry him first.

ArghAhhh You too

They may beg you to please not leave the marriage. And so will begin the basis of a proper relationship with a very necessary ceding of power from them to you.

This has made me and I am intrigued - would you elaborate on this point please, Alpha?

Chunderella · 08/01/2015 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thurlow · 08/01/2015 14:05

I also need it to be for love, committment, to celebrate our relationship, to demonstrate a bond within our little family

Here you have to accept that for your DP, he doesn't make that connection between a marriage and celebrating a relationship, demonstrating a bond. There is nothing wrong with either point of view, but they are of course very different.

If you fully believe that your DP is a loving, committed, devoted, faithful partner who just doesn't see marriage in the a romantic, sentimental way that you do, then you have to trust his reasons for not wanting to get married.

At which point, his agreement to get married to you despite this is a huge and important thing.

As others have said, you can't expect him to change the way he feels about something like the romance of a wedding, for example. It's going to be something that is pretty core within him. What he has done, by the sounds of it, is agree to do something he wouldn't do by choice because it will make you happy.

Sometimes couples have such a different viewpoint on marriage that I can see how it makes sense for them to split up. If the higher earning partner is unwilling to provide protection to the lower earning partner, that's quite understandable as something which will tear a marriage apart. (I'm saying all this as someone who is consciously and deliberately unmarried).

However the romance of it? That's a big deal. You've been with this man for a long time, you suggest he's not the most romantic of people - are you willing to break up a relationship over this?

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