Marriage - I need to understand why I feel like this so that I can explain it.

[feelingunsupported]

I want to get married. Dp doesn't.

I've read lots of threads that start like this but I'm stuck and upset because for some reason I have changed my mind about marriage and I'm not sure why.

I've always firmly believed that marriage wasn't important. That its how you feel about someone that is important but since I had ds 3 years ago I have wanted us to get married.

Dp says I'm unfair because we agreed that we felt the same way about marriage when we got together and I guess he is right -I'm trying to move the goal posts and that's not fair. But I can't help feeling like this and it's causing rows. It is the only thing we row about.

My reasons for wanting to get married are:
Commitment (even though we own our home and have ds together. I still just want the commitment and can't really explain why)
Surname - I stupidly agreed to ds having dps surname and I hate having to say 'I'm xx xx, yy yy's mum'
Financial - dp and I both have teachers pensions but, if anything happens to one of us I guess it just disappears - I don't think the other can claim it
Partner - I don't like using the word partner and like boyfriend / girlfriend even less - we're in our 30's and 40's

Dp's reasons for not getting married:
He doesn't want to.

I know there's no compromise. I've come to bed upset after seeing 2 wedding announcements on the dreaded facebook and fancied a rant and a little cry

OP is he from a broken home?

There are two main reasons why a man behaves like this when his partner wants to get married (by which I mean refusing to marry and refusing to discuss it in the hope she will just shut up and give up). The more benign one is that he is uninformed about the legal difference between being married and remaining unmarried when you have a home and DC together, and he thinks of himself (and often, his partner too) as 'alternative' people, young and radical rather than boring conventional married couples.
THe other, I'm afraid, is that deep down he still considers you a 'will do for now' partner, and wants to remain legally single in case Anjelica Jolie suddenly walks past him and announces she's available.
A woman not wanting to marry I would have more sympathy for, given the long history of marriage being all about men's ownership of women, and the fact that it's only 25 years or so since a married woman obtained the legal right to refuse sex (before that, a man could just have sex on his wife whether she liked it or not and she would have no legal redress - he owned her.)

This whole thread is strange to me.

If anything a WOMAN should want to resist the shackles (real or ideological) that a marriage means. Men have every reason to want women to become their wives, adopt their name, merge their finances etc etc.

Personally I dont understand why anyone would participate in it. And I resent the implications in this whole thread that women are "unprotected" in a civil partnership. It assumes women are all still "homemakers" with no financial autonomy and that men resist marriage in order to preserve their wealth or something

Dont like to have a surname different from your dc? Give them your name!

I think you partner is right.

mslizzy the OP is not in a civil partnership though; hers is a heterosexual relationship, and at the moment, a civil partnership (which you rightly say, gives a couple the same legal protection as marriage) is not available to her.

She is cohabiting with her partner - which leaves both parties more vulnerable in the event of sudden death or the relationship ending than if they were married.

I take it the talk did not go well then OP?

The transference of pension could be resolved with a will. So could any of the other financial "risks" raised here.

Why should OP's partner agree to a marriage he doesnt want and never wanted (whatever his reasons are) because OP doesnt like the term "partner" and feels uncomfortable with a surname different from her dc? Those reasons are no more persuausive than his!!!

But what are his reasons! Just that they agreed they didn't want to get married several years ago.

What are his reasons, I can't really think of anything that would make me hold out against my partner's strong wishes.

It's funny he hasn't stated them.

mslizzy the issue here is that the OPs DP believes that they have all those protections in place without a will - he is making his decision about not marrying from a position of ignorance.

The OPs problem is that her DP, like you, is so hostile towards the principle of marriage (which is the traditional way of addressing the issues the OP has raised) that a discussion about her fears, and the ways in which they could be alleviated, is not possible.

The OP and her DP need to discuss their wills, and the way in which assets will be divided in the event of their individual (or joint) deaths - that's just common sense, surely?

He doesnt want to!

I didnt want to! I hated the word "husband"! I hated the idea of changing my name! The whole wedding malarky (ugh!!!). I didnt feel any of it belonged to me, I love my partner, but I don t want to be his wife. Having lovely dc made my resistan e even firmer.

Maybe he feels like that? Mahbe he thinks "what a crock of s**t!".

This is not a civil partnership mslizzy. A civil partnership is also not available to heterosexual couples, only same sex couples .

I am wondering if the OP is really his "she will do for now" woman until someone else comes along.

And by no means are all the financial risks and problems solved by purely making a will.

If he was to die tomorrow, OP would be in all sorts of financial dire straits as well as dealing with her own emotional grief on top. Many women I feel simply do not realise the whole legal ramifications of them as a couple not being married when the man dies. She would not be allowed for starters to open Letters Of Administration for his estate, claim a widows allowance from the Government (this is only for married women) nor choose a headstone for him. She could become very reliant on his parents goodwill too.

I think you should ask him if you can change DS's name to yours, that is reasonable. It must be awful to hate saying your son's name, I can completely understand why you feel that way.

"Do for now" person?? Eh?? They have a baby!!! For whom they take turns waking up!!! Surely that is a sign of respect and commitment greater than a piece of paper?!?

Choose a headstone

OP, we made our wills recently with the help of a mnetter, mumblechum. Reasonable price, very friendly over the phone, she sent out the documents, we signed and sent back, done. It's an unpleasant task, but it has to be done. Then you can forget about it again.

I hope you have a good talk

I think the whole "its just a piece of paper" stuff is tiresome because its true!! Relationships are only as committed as the people in them. What if OP convinces her OH to marry? Is he somehow more committed than he was last week? I dont get it. Its all a load of bs. IMHO.

I agree, a will does not solve all of OP's problems, but it solves some of them. I can fully understand you, Op. I would want to be married to the man I love and have dc with, and I am.
I wonder why he is so reluctant, if you don't want a big do and it is just about the being married.

Mslizzy - you sound as unknowledgeable as the OP's DP about the realities of the "piece of paper". It's not just about commitment, but about far more than that. Fine if you choose not to have it, absolutely fine for you - but that doesn't make it bullshit for people who would prefer the protection.

And yes, headstone! People can die suddenly, you know - if the OP isn't her partner's registered next of kin, then she won't have any rights over her partner's funeral, headstone etc. - those will default to his parents if no will is in place.

A will can be changed at any time. Even the day after it's made, without informing the other party so certainly does NOT solve any problems for the disadvantaged party.

Marriage should be renamed to financial and legal sharing in case things go tits up. Because this is what it is. It's an insurances policy that insures you share the assets of your marriage.

There is a lot more to marriage than the tangible things you mention AlphaBravo and this is one of the reason the OP feels this way. Marriage has meaning beyond financial security and for many, it is not just a paper. It carries a certain je ne sais quoi. Furthermore, because of the additional burden it places on both parties in signals to a large extent an extra commitment (or perhaps bravery and leap of faith) to carry that ball and chain.

There is a challenge in the courts at the moment to the idea of civil partnerships being confined to same sex couples, so it looks like this will change in the near future.

I married my partner for legal and financial reasons and I didn't like the change it brought about in our relationship. Before I referred to him by his name, afterwards I started to refer to him as my husband. I also felt that we started to fall into stereotypical roles after our relationship became a marriage.

It is hard when one of a couple changes their feelings about what was a foundational agreement between. You have every right to change your feelings, but I also think he has every right to want to keep to the initial agreement.