Marriage - I need to understand why I feel like this so that I can explain it.

[feelingunsupported]

I want to get married. Dp doesn't.

I've read lots of threads that start like this but I'm stuck and upset because for some reason I have changed my mind about marriage and I'm not sure why.

I've always firmly believed that marriage wasn't important. That its how you feel about someone that is important but since I had ds 3 years ago I have wanted us to get married.

Dp says I'm unfair because we agreed that we felt the same way about marriage when we got together and I guess he is right -I'm trying to move the goal posts and that's not fair. But I can't help feeling like this and it's causing rows. It is the only thing we row about.

My reasons for wanting to get married are:
Commitment (even though we own our home and have ds together. I still just want the commitment and can't really explain why)
Surname - I stupidly agreed to ds having dps surname and I hate having to say 'I'm xx xx, yy yy's mum'
Financial - dp and I both have teachers pensions but, if anything happens to one of us I guess it just disappears - I don't think the other can claim it
Partner - I don't like using the word partner and like boyfriend / girlfriend even less - we're in our 30's and 40's

Dp's reasons for not getting married:
He doesn't want to.

I know there's no compromise. I've come to bed upset after seeing 2 wedding announcements on the dreaded facebook and fancied a rant and a little cry

People change, especially after children. You shouldn't feel bad for reappraising your view on marriage - I feel it's about validation; wanting the world to know they chose you and you accepted...and visa-versa - and wanting your children to see that positive statement. Sometimes it's so complicated replicating the various aspects of marriage that you have to ask the question 'why don't we just get married'. Walk in 'through the front door' so to speak.

(I personally hate the idea of the wedding day, but love the idea of marriage. I like the idea of celebrating on the day, but hate all the attention, focus and stresses that go with the social conventions...)

At the very least though he needs to explain in detail his position..an eloquent explanation from you could break down his resistance.

As you will know, if you are the lower earner and especially a SAHM not being married means you are financially vulnerable, eg if you break up. Many men who claim to be anti marriage for other reasons are well aware of this.

Having your DS is more than enough reason to change your mind, since your position has changed and (if now earning less or not at all) you are more vulnerable now without the legal and financial security of marriage than before DC.

If you are in this position is he willing to address this by marrying (without a big wedding) or with alternative legal agreements? If not, he might well not have your interests at heart.

Is any property or other assets in both your names?

At the very very very least sort out wills, life insurances and pension stuff asap. Surely that can be done without too much disagreement?

Breaking up is more likely to happen than death but of your P wants to avoid financial/legal responsibility then things like cohabiting agreements on who gets assets etc might be more contentious to sort out.

I bet it's not about money or commitment. Being a teacher, he may be a little bit 'lefty' and likes the idea of being a little bit unconventional. Although he's in his 40s he still thinks 'young'. (not saying that's bad) Getting married maybe a milestone that shouts of being an old fogey......just a thought...? Perhaps he's also worried of the relationship changing afterwards...

I think it's quite cruel of him not to discuss this with you. If you don't know why he doesn't want to marry, that leaves you imaging all sorts of issues.
Could you wrote him a letter explaining that if you can't talk about this then it's never going to be resolved and that isnt going to do your relationship any good. And ask if he would agree to arranging a talk say for an hour at a set time?

He can't just dismiss something that is so important to you.

I sympathise totally, I can't cope in a relationship for any length of time without being married, hence why I riffle through my old marriage licences like a deck of cards *

I think he needs to understand that if he won't talk about it, you will go on wanting to talk about it - he seems to think that if he won't talk about it, it's more likely to stop coming up, when in fact it's the opposite. He may have very deep reasons for not doing it - for many men it is desperately wanting to avoid turning into his father, and I can't blame him for that, I turned into my mother in my first marriage and much as I love my mother, it was disastrous. However, if you are aware of the danger, it's less likely to happen IMO.

I would be more impressed, personally, if you got on with getting a will sorted, a financial adviser round and get the practicalities done. There is absolutely nothing stopping you calling yourself Ms Husbandsname from next term. I completely agree with Jack45 about the complexity of trying to do it any other way, but the fact is that you are refusing to fix the details, because your list of reasons isn't particularly valid either - you just want to be married, just as he doesn't want to. Coming to him with a list of reasons that can be sorted another way is not the way to persuade him. The first thing to do is to accept that his feelings are valid and ask him to talk to you about them as he would do about anything else. If you can accept his reasons as valid, you may feel less angry, and less anger about this would actually increase the likelihood that he might change his mind. Shouting about unfairness on his part is also completely pointless, your feelings are likewise valid and he needs to understand that.

I wouldn't hold my breath for him changing though.

If you've changed your mind about marriage since having a child it's probably got a lot to do with security. Having children IME suddenly highlights all the uncertainties and perils of life. Security takes a much higher priority when you have a dependent.

At heart, marriage is a pretty hard nosed contract that confers certain rights over shared property, inheritance and kin status. The froth and flowers aspect is just decor! Name changing is merely a convention. Echoing others therefore, make an appointment with a lawyer, sort out wills, name each other as beneficiaries of insurance policies, document any assets and cover off all the main aspects that marriage would involve.

Protect yourself

• not my joke, somebody else's

I recently got married to the man who has been my partner for 27 years, & father of our 2 children. I never wanted to be MRS anybody, I was adamant that I didn't want to belong to anybody. I wanted to be me, but that was before I had kids, before there were properties, pensions, finances & old age !! so I am with you all the way re "identity", about commitment & security.

Financially I was in a very bad place if he decided to slink off with an OW, or die suddenly, there was no will. I live in Europe but not the UK.
OH refused to marry, he was divorced from a flaky woman he wed when he was in his early 20s, & clearly saw no advantage.
I was known as Mrs small child's mother, or Mr X's partner, but legally I was Mr X's concubine. (Yes)
Fortuitously for me, there were tax reasons for us to marry when OH was selling his shares in his business, & so basically for finances we did the deed in a small civil ceremony here. But I wasn't happy that he wouldn't "commit", he held all the cards, with properties, salary, pension.
So, finally I am safe. My position is established, He finally is committed to sharing everything. My name is still not Mrs OH because after all these years I don't want to change my name.
I am glad for you that financially you are in a safer place than I was, but
I know how you feel, but I don't expect many other people here will !

He, by the way, shed a tear at the wedding !! & it wasn't in sadness for his freedom

Thank you - so much to think about, I really appreciate you all taking the time.

I will make sure that we find out about pensions etc - dp is very laid back and will never get round to it without some insistence.

The next of kin thing is important tp me. When I was pregnant dp was down as emergency contact on my notes but my dad was next of kin. I was 33 - it was ridiculous and I hated it.

I'm going to ask dp to sit down tonight and talk about it. We've given each other a wide berth since NYE as we're both cross.

He's a head in the sand type and thinks that the problem has gone away once the row dies down. I've taken to festering about it between blow ups as it's so frustrating to be met with 'it's pointless - we're committed etc'. I know that this is childish.

His parents are happily married cola, as are mine, both of our siblings and most of our friends.

"head in the sand type and thinks that the problem has gone away once the row dies down"
Yes,mine is the same

It might be sensible to list all the things that you would need to do to equate to the protection that marriage would give you automatically - there's a fair bit!
It might also be a good idea to bring up the possibility of one of you dying tomorrow, what would happen? Because no one ever knows what tomorrow will bring, so it's a good plan to be prepared. You need to know what the differences would be if either of you suddenly died, and you need to point them out to him. And then go back to the list I mentioned in the first paragraph, point out how much work would be needed that could be taken care of by a 20 minute ceremony with 2 witnesses at a register office.

I think a list is the way forward - he's having a lie in (my turn tomorrow) but I'm going to ask him to write a list today to discuss tonight. I'll do the same (although we have plans today so my research will be limited)

I understand how you feel, OP. DH and I have been together since university, and I was adamant through my 20s that I didn't want to get married. This was mainly due to uneasiness about the historical meaning of marriage (women as property etc), not wanting to be centre of attention for a day, slightly awkward family issues, and the feeling that being a wife was a level of adulthood that equalled 'old & sensible'.

However, as I got into my 30s and started wanting to have children, my feelings changed. I felt that marriage was a sensible protection for women with children (who tended to go back to work part-time or become SAHMs), and part of me felt that you shouldn't have children without being married (catholic upbringing that I haven't managed to completely overcome). The awkward family situation was resolved, I had more confidence about being the centre of attention for one day, I'd started to hate referring to 'my partner', and being 'old & sensible' didn't seem that bad anymore :)

So, we decided to get married! One thing that struck me was how happy DH was - it was clear how much he'd wanted to be married, which he had downplayed due to my feelings about marriage. We had a small wedding, I haven't changed my surname, and saying 'my husband' felt weird for a while!

Marriage hasn't changed our day-to-day relationship, but I am pleased we have that security now I'm pregnant with DC1. It is very unromantic, but that was one of the main benefits to me. There was also something unexpectedly lovely about declaring our commitment to each other in public.

I hope you're able to have a discussion with your DP about this - good luck!

You had a kid so your circumstances changed, it's not fair to insist that your views should remain identical to when you first met when your life has altered so fundamentally.

I don't have much patience with head in the sand types, it's very self-indulgent. Personally I would not have a kid with someone who wasn't prepared to give me the legal and financial protection of marriage. He may be unaware of the the vulnerable situation he's put you in, or he may be fully aware and that's why he's doing it.

The inhertance tax question may focus his mind if you're worth over 325 grand, or the fact that if he was run over tomorrow, it would be his parents not you deciding whether to switch the machines off.

I agree with posters who say you must go to a solicitor and sort out all the legal and financial details, but honestly it won't cost you much more to be married, and if you really want to be, then you've every right to push for it.

OP you need to explain to him what a vulnerable position this puts you both in if something happens to either one of you! I had been living with my partner for 14 years when he died very suddenly of a heart attack age 39! We had a joint property, registered as joint tenants we thought! It wasn't! the solicitor had made a mistake & it was registered as tenants in common but this did not come to light until my partner died & his children from a previous relationship inherited half of the house!

We had join life insurance policies but I ended up spending quite a chunk of this on legal bills to keep my house! We stupidly had not made wills, like you it was on the list of things to do, in fact the paperwork was on the table ready to be filled in but you know we thought we had all the time in the world, sadly we did not!
All this happening at a time when I was absolutely heart broken & bereft!
Good luck speaking to him later, I hope it goes well!

I think your thread title is quite sad. In a good relationship you shouldn't be casting around looking for a convincing way to express yourself. You know perfectly well how you feel and you should be able to say it to your partner without having to prep yourself up like a witness about to take the stand in a trial. You're both grown ups, you're meant to be a family, and it should be possible to have a mature conversation about the future security of that family without anyone either being choked up with anxiety or losing their temper.

Ultimately as someone said up thread there is no reason for your dp to get married. What would he gain? You already live as a married couple but without any of the protection that a marriage would provide.

I'm sorry to say that in my experience when a man says that he doesn't want to get married, its usually that he doesn't want to marry you. I have had several friends and colleagues who have gone through the "I don't want to get married" only for the dp to leave and get married after a few months to someone else. My own cousin did this his partner for 19 years and 2 children, I realise that this isn't particularly helpful but it has been my experience.

I think that you have to make it clear exactly how important this issue is to you, and what he stands to loose, because if you've been feeling like this for 3 years getting wills etc isn't going to take away the feeling that in some way he doesn't quite love you enough. Ultimately the resentment will destroy everything good that you have together. Sadly I think that you may have to be prepared to walk away.

Another one agreeing with previous posters saying you must see a solicitor and sort out wills. Make an appointment this week.

I've been with my (now) DH for 20 years and we have three children. We thought that marriage was unnecessary because we could just make wills - in our case, this was wrong. When we went to the solicitor, he explained that if we both died, our kids would lose an enormous amount of inheritance straight to inheritance tax, some of which could be avoided if we were married. It's complicated, but you need to find out what your position is.

oh yes, I should add, we got married this year in secret with just two witnesses and cheapo rings. I haven't changed my name and it's no big deal, just for legal reasons for our children!