Marriage - I need to understand why I feel like this so that I can explain it.

[feelingunsupported]

I want to get married. Dp doesn't.

I've read lots of threads that start like this but I'm stuck and upset because for some reason I have changed my mind about marriage and I'm not sure why.

I've always firmly believed that marriage wasn't important. That its how you feel about someone that is important but since I had ds 3 years ago I have wanted us to get married.

Dp says I'm unfair because we agreed that we felt the same way about marriage when we got together and I guess he is right -I'm trying to move the goal posts and that's not fair. But I can't help feeling like this and it's causing rows. It is the only thing we row about.

My reasons for wanting to get married are:
Commitment (even though we own our home and have ds together. I still just want the commitment and can't really explain why)
Surname - I stupidly agreed to ds having dps surname and I hate having to say 'I'm xx xx, yy yy's mum'
Financial - dp and I both have teachers pensions but, if anything happens to one of us I guess it just disappears - I don't think the other can claim it
Partner - I don't like using the word partner and like boyfriend / girlfriend even less - we're in our 30's and 40's

Dp's reasons for not getting married:
He doesn't want to.

I know there's no compromise. I've come to bed upset after seeing 2 wedding announcements on the dreaded facebook and fancied a rant and a little cry

I used to be a trust and estates practitioner dealing with wealth protection. Frankly it would be substantially cheaper and less time consuming to get married, if you both love each other.

Cog it is very sad - and I'm very sad to be in this situation. It does nothing for my confidence to feel like I have to persuade him to do something that should be done for love.

I'm going to do a quick search to try to work out how much it would cost to draw up a legal agreement if ds naps at lunch time.

Our house will never be worth £300k+ so that's off the table.
Thanks again everyone. I was expecting a massive flaming.

Part of me agrees with a pp that you should suggest that you'd like to change dcs surname by deed poll so its the same as yours! He most certainly won't like that one bit! He clearly wanted dc to have his name.

That winds me right up when he won't give you his name by marriage.

But then that's a bit mean to use dc as a pawn like that. I'd instead use the upset you feel at the different surname to your child when you (hopefully!) discuss it.

Good luck op, I hope he'll talk about it. It really would be cheaper to marry low key than sort all the legal protection/arrangements separately.

Just to add though that I'm married but still have wills etc and am financially safe on a personal level.

For me I would not share finances let alone genes with someone who didn't feel they loved me enough to get married. To each their own but above all marriage should be about love and showing the world that you are committed to each other.

I wish you well.

I don't think you can generalise about reluctance to get married. There are so many different reasons. Some men don't want to get married because they're not fully committed. Some are fully committed but have no idea of the legal and financial implications. Some don't like the idea of being married. Some just can't be arsed.

It's a female interpretation to infer that it's because he doesn't love you enough. He may not see it like that at all. He may think 'you know I love you, you know I'm 100% committed, we have a house and a kid, so we don't need the bit of paper' etc.

I would disagree with that, but I don't think there's enough information from the OP to be able to deduce his agenda and I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions.

A couple of my friends had DPs who dragged their feet, but insistence and spelling out of the legal and financial implications was enough to change their minds.

On the other hand my cousin wasted 5 years a gf's life not marrying her and then married someone else.

Also, I omitted in pp that several years previously to our marriage I did manage to get him along to local notary to see about wills/inheritance, who is a local villager & H knows him pretty well.
His answer was, "go home & start writing the invitations" (to your marriage !)
No-Brainer to him.
You can also do a PACs, although not much point really, as financially the protection is less, & you can undo both,
Maybe you should just show him this thread, it kind of says it all.

Do you own a property together? If yes, how about he transfers his share of the property to you, in recognition of your disadvantageous position caused by giving birth to and raising his child. After all it's only a piece of paper and you are committed to one another anyway, so nothing will go wrong. And make sure all cars are in your name.

The only reason men don't want to marry, is they don't want to concede their advantageous financial position that comes from being unmarried with an unpaid woman who cares for your children living in.

I am afraid I agree with alpha.

You're allowed to move the goal posts. Things change, feelings change. You're not a machine that can just switch to one decision or another.
I wasn't bothered about marriage until DD came along and now I want to be married for the reasons you listed and for her too. She deserves her mum and dad to be married, it's a symbol of lifelong partnership and it's stability for her, albeit the rate of failed marriages. But it doesn't matter.
Maybe you should tell DP just how serious this is and what it means to you. If he doesn't agree and it's affecting you so badly, you may have to explain that for you, things have changed. It doesnt matter what you said previously, they just have. Then leave if you have to.

I agree with previous posters that it is completely reasonable to change your mind about this - don't let him make you feel bad for doing so. When DC come along, your priorities change about lots of things.

In response to Twink we are all having to generalise because none of us know all the particulars. Ultimately you can only control your own actions and thoughts. None of us truly know what makes other people act in a certain way.

I accept that my view is not particularly helpful here as its a bit like closing the barn door when the horse has bolted.

I stand by my view though that getting married should be about love. If resentment has set in then that is corrosive. You are both entitled to your feelings but I don't think drawing up wills etc will ease the underlying resentment. That is only my opinion. As a legal professional I would always advise protecting your position, that's a no brainer, to the married and unmarried alike. That doesn't cover the emotional side of things. As I said before the cost of having all those documents drafted, approved and endorsed is likely to far outstrip the cost of a simple marriage. Personally I wouldn't be too impressed to be in a relationship with someone who would rather do all of those things rather than marry me...without wishing to impose my feelings on the op.

Chunderella - It's impossible to emulate marriage legally.

Chunderella - So how do you sort out the inheritance tax on a £2M house, owned as joint tenants to cohabitees?

Chunderella - The £2M house is owned as joint tenants, mortgage of £200,000 joint and several, other assets just about offset debts excluding mortgage debt. Man 50 had a heart attack and sadly died. Woman is 45 and stay at home mother to 3 children all at fee paying schools. School fees were paid out of income. Aside from his pension from which he has just taken a big lump sum payment to reduce the mortgage to . The pension scheme trustees do not allow cohabitees the same rights as spouses. They have 3 children all at private schools. And no life insurance policy aside from a small one that will pay £20,000. Man left a will leaving all assets to his cohabitee excluding his fishing rods which are passed directly to his sons.

The IHT due on death will be £1M, minus the nil rate band (£325,000) minus £100,000 mortgage debt, minus debts, plus other assets valued as at date of death e.g. car, shares, etc, minus the costs of administering his estate and the IHT due then would be 40% of that remainder sum (in this case about £250,000).

Chunderella - I look forward to your answer.

Chunderella - "But the surviving unmarried partner would be liable for IHT at 40% on £1.675 million in your scenario, as the nil rate band is only 325k."

Eh? I already said their house is owned as joint tenants. You don't seem to understand the basic rudiments of the law surrounding IHT and cohabits.

I don't need any legal advice thanks. And no of course that didn't happen to me. But it does happen to people and with property prices growing it is becoming an increasingly common scenario.

Absolutely Chunderella! Exactly what happened to me! We believed the house issue was sorted out but the solicitor had failed to answer several letters from Land Registry as to how the property was to be registered hence property registered as Tenants in Common & it didn't come to light until my partner died! It was terrible!

Chunderella Ha! I thought when you said: "Indeed it is, Alpha." That you meant marriage is possible to emulate legally. You should have said indeed it isn't, Alpha. We are on the same page.

This thread does appear to have gone slightly off track.

I think we are all agreed that the op should protect herself, as much as possible legally, however there is no real substitute to marriage. I think I've made my feelings clear on that subject and don't want to keep banging on about it.

I've noticed that the op hasn't been back in a while?