Completely shocked by husband

[birgittestyle]

This evening my husband told me he didn't love me anymore and had been seeing someone else for the last month. It has come as a complete shock as I hadn't suspected anything. He is a fantastic husband and amazing father until now. We have 3 young children aged 7, 6 and 4 and I have no idea what to say to them.
My big worry right now is that we live in Germany, the youngest was born here and my husband is german but I am English. He says the marriage is over and I just don't know what to do. I want to move back to England but I am not sure how this works under german law.
Does anyone know how custody and moving country is decided? I cannot bear the thought of having to stay here and just want to take the children back to my home. The older two were also born abroad but not in Grammy. We married in England.
Any experience or knowledge would be very helpful. I am in such a complete state of shock and need to think about what to do next.

omg, you told him not to come and he just came anyway and then got you to agree that the children go to his mothers??

Well, what he is doing is showing you that he will do whatever the hell he likes. And the LAW supports men who treat the mother of their children like this.

So ignore anyone who says you need to facilitate his access to the children because it's good for them to see their father.
What you do is you allow him to see them because you are FRIGHTENED OF RETALIATION.

It is perfectly normal for a wife to react by telling her husband she wants space alone with the kids after finding out her husband has been cheating, but no no, we must put the cheating husband's needs first, according to the law.

So you have NO CHOICE but to continue to allow him to see the kids but please please start putting up some boundries. Your brothers reaction is NORMAL, but brother probably doesn't understand how much power your husband has over you, by law.

Forget reconciliation and all of that. Have you asked him outright whether he'll allow you to take the children to the UK. You need to get a solid answer from him.

It's ridiculous of your h to suggest going to couple counselling at this point in time. I wonder if he is suggesting this so that when / if you refuse the counselling or break it off prematurely he can score points with the German divorce / settlement / childcare arrangement. Ask your lawyer what would happen if you don't agree to counselling.

PLEASE consider these last posts seriously, it seems very good advise, & if you get it wrong, you could be bad footed for good.
so: DO not give him access to the kids to pacify him. be reasonable then close the door, while waiting for legal advise.
Do not assume his is being conciliatory because he is back tracking re mediation etc., you are shocked & hurting a have been blind sided by this mammoth dump from him, PLEASE try & forget the former trust you had, be very VERY careful that he is not manipulating his German system, that he has had time to research & understands, against you.
Its not because you want it all to "rewind" that he has essentially changed his plan.
Sorry, my heart breaks for you.

Not agreeing to counselling won't go against you, but not agreeing to mediation very likely would.

Do not forget that the most important thing in all of this is to get him to agree in writing for you to remove the kids should the marriage breakdown. You must not forget this in all your hoping that the marriage can be saved.

If it were me I would send him a long, rambling email, starting that email by telling him that you need to email him your feelings/points because whenever you see him you are too emotional to remember to get your stuff across. Then splurge whatever you want to say, but whatever you do put, make sure that bang in the middle of that email you mention that you are grateful that he understands and agrees that it will be appropriate for you and the kids to move back to England should things not work out. Don't highlight the point, but get it in there somewhere. And then hope that he sends a reply and that you then set up an email correspondence trail. That could then be used should you need it as evidence regarding what he has said to you now regarding freedom to move the kids.

It's deliberate, its underhand and its not the nice way to do it. But would you rather be stuck in that hellhole town for 15 years with him parading His new family round town? It's a small thing to do that you can then keep in our back pocket should the worst of all alternatives comes to pass. If you cannot reconcile and do decide that you want to make a new start elsewhere, then don't expect him to do the honourable thing. He has already shown you that he will shit all over you when it suits him.

I think the DH has to explicitly consent to the kids leaving Germany so although it's good to get the idea out there in writing it wouldn't serve as anything binding to get him to mention it in emails.

Maybe someone who is legally qualified can confirm though.

Yes it's too important to be able to dupe him into it, and he can change his mind anyway.

He would have to be fully behind the move. His consent has to be clear and unequivocal.

Yes and if he's not going to give it, he needs to just come out and tell her so that she can go to plan B.
He might give his consent, though. Depends on a couple of factors.

I really think there are a number of issues all getting muddled up.
Yes, the op's husband has been behaving like a complete bastard. In terms of what will happen regarding the affair, possibility of rebuilding the relationship etc, nobody knows. Agreeing to go to some kind of counselling is certainly not a bad thing to get things into the open and talk. OP has obviously been through a lot of stress in the last few years with three kids close together and limited integration into the society she choose to live in.
OP is clearly in acute shock. This is not the time to make life changing decisions.

There are three children. One has chronic health needs.
Is it in the best interest of the children to be moved? I don't know the answer, I simply dont know.
The OP does not have access to benefits housing etc in the UK as she would not pass the habitual residence test. Same for housing. I am uncertain if her child would ne entitled to free healthcare on the nhs until habitual residence is established.
Besically unless OP can access a job and childcare, she is completely dependant on others for a period of time. Assuming she left the UK in her twenties, how easy will it be to just slot in eleven years later with three young children?
Unless she has a good professional background it will be fairly close to the breadline.
In terms of maintenance, the German system is or used to be more generous and more enforceable than the CSA.
Also the options to be retrained properly in a career with a long-term perspective (umschulung) is quite possibly better in Germany. This will give her support in rebuilding her own independent life.
I agree that small town anywhere can be a problem but there ate cities, there are co-housing projects etc.
It is understandable to want to retreat back to childhood in the initial acute shock but I would urge you to look at all options and not focus on rash decisions.

Sorry for your situation.
Perhaps posting on the Mumsnet Living Abroad will give you more access to people with experience of the EU.
Have you access to cash. If your ex is control of the bank accounts you need to examine this ASAP.

I should add that you might find that social support and financial will be better in Germany than you will find in the UK

Re access arrangements, may I suggest every other weekend and half of holidays? A) It is the bog standard arrangement in Germany, so it is reasonable in the eyes of the law, noone will think you are withholding reasonable access. B) The midweek overnight and half of every weekend (rather than all of every other weekend) could work against a leave to remove application, once that pattern is establised, as it is impossible to sustain cross-border.

I am posting as someone who has lived moved, worked etc between the two jurisdictions and even though I did not have the consent issue from my eldest father's ex did try after a very painful awake in to move back (in my case the other direction). There are advantages in Germany. Healthcare, childcare and financial support as well as tenants protection is far far better. There is no comparison.
In my case I had simply not lived as a adult person with child in Germany. I had left in my early twenties. When I returned I had some support and it was nice that my mum was minding my child some weekends, however while I had friends I had remained in touch with had also moved on with their lives and the relationships I had had before leaving had changed and were not what I had envisaged. I did return after a while because while physical arrangements were better I was not able to settle "back" after such a long time.
My return had nothing to do with the ex who frankly was a waste of space.
All I am saying is to look very carefully into longterm perspectives and issues of building a life that is yours.

Agreed madwoman.

There's a lot more financial and other governmental support for single parents in Germany (one thing that leaps to mind is 20 days paid leave if your child is ill) which makes things generally a lot easier over there.

Childcare is heavily subsidised too. I also think the medical system is generally excellent.

Sorry, posted too soon.

I meant to add that it is often not easy to slot back into an area that you left a long time previously.

Visiting for an extended period of time every so often is no indication of how things will be once you're back for good. Often friends and family drop everything to support you and see you when you are visiting, in a way that they wouldn't be able to do if you were back permanently.

Today is the 1 year anniversary of leaving my idiot drunk ex (german) and father of my 2 kids (6 and 4) here in Germany (BW OP if you are in region, PM me :) ) I haven't lived in UK since 2007, and had/have no intention to live there again. Kids were born in a third european country. we weren't married so it SLIGHTLY alters the situation for me here in Germany, but yes, without his written explicit consent you can't leave with the kids (I took some advice before i left, though not with a lawyer)

I was a SAHM when i moved out, but the jobcentre were really great and helpful and non judgemental, and i recieved very generous benefits as a single parent, plus they paid the rent in my new apartment and i went on a language course for free for 4 months (i spoke german but not brilliant). Now i am self employed as a cleaner, not with the jobcebtre anymore and doing fine. He will have to pay maintenance, to kids, and you as you were married (PP mentioned Düsseldorfer Tabelle) and it will be taken direct from his pay if he tries not to pay it. Kindergeld is good, job opportunities are good here, medical, school, kindy, it is all better.

I will stay here for next 15 years until kids finish school and then I will go back to the third country again. I don't have loads of friends or support here (EX is pretty useless) but its ok and I really think better than you would get in UK and anyway, ultimately you may have no choice.

But now, of course, you are in shock and it took me a couple of months to get my head round the idea i would stay here, but now, I am even considering buying a house next year, if i can!

Something to consider is, if you stay in Germany and want to move to a new village/town, you can only move up to 200km from the other parent under German law, so you couldn't hot foot it to the other end of the country to escape him. But you certainly could move to a bigger town with much more possibilites for you.

In my local town there is a Verein for Alleinerziehendeeltern and they gave me free advice and had a meeting once a month for single parents to meet for friendship and help etc, they also, if you joined the verein, offered free lawyer appointments. They may have one in your local town, google and see.

Could the reason his stance to reviewing the relationship has changed be because the OW is not leaving her husband after all the revelations? In fact is her DH even aware of this?

I'm not suggesting you contact her but I'm pretty skeptical about his change of heart re: counselling. I'd just bear this possibility in mind.

Yes I wondered if the OW was separated, or what her position is ?

Have just had a look, mutter kind kur still exists for parents under severe stress and not sleeping and constant crying might well qualify. These are three weeks of fully funded residential spa health treatments with on site childcare to treat and prevent health problems resulting from stress. Not sure where to apply for that but your gp / hausartzt will be your best point of call. That will give you the headspace to make decisions. They work holistically with a lot of natural treatments. You will meet new people, discover that your German is probably far better than you thought and generally try to look at your perspectives
After that you can look at courses etc.
Verb and alleinerziehender eltern is certainly a good support, so are local women's centres, assuming they are still around.
Re the ow, it is unlikely going to be the romance of the century. Some relationships survive an affair, some dont but try to focus on yourself and your needs rather than on him.

For a Mutter Kind Kur you should contact your medical insurer.

How are you doing OP?

Feeling much stronger. Lots to update on but my mother has arrived and I am spending lots of time talking it through with her. I really want to answer lots of the questions above and explain more but feel I might be able to sleep so will take the time to post properly tomorrow (plus I have a v snory 4 year old next to me in bed!). I cannot tell you how helpful everyone is here. It has given me strength, perspective and a very welcome dose of compassion.

I'm so pleased to hear your mum is there with you. Get as much rest as you can xx

Sleep well BirgitteS.

Hurrah for mums!

That's lovely that your Mum has come. I hope she'll be able to help take care of you and your little ones whilst you are getting your head round all this . to you both .