Completely shocked by husband

[birgittestyle]

This evening my husband told me he didn't love me anymore and had been seeing someone else for the last month. It has come as a complete shock as I hadn't suspected anything. He is a fantastic husband and amazing father until now. We have 3 young children aged 7, 6 and 4 and I have no idea what to say to them.
My big worry right now is that we live in Germany, the youngest was born here and my husband is german but I am English. He says the marriage is over and I just don't know what to do. I want to move back to England but I am not sure how this works under german law.
Does anyone know how custody and moving country is decided? I cannot bear the thought of having to stay here and just want to take the children back to my home. The older two were also born abroad but not in Grammy. We married in England.
Any experience or knowledge would be very helpful. I am in such a complete state of shock and need to think about what to do next.

You can't apply for benefits unless you have been living in the UK for 13 weeks. I now have to wait another 12 weeks before I can begin applying. But I completely agree with all your other advice lavenderhoney.
Also, the benefits office seemed to be anxious about the idea that I wasn't supporting myself in the interim, so you must say that your mother or family is helping you out.
Actually, in my case, my husband is being very agreeable and has deposited some money in my account to help with uniforms and what have you. I don't want to make this thread about me, but I was absolutely horrified to read about helpbeth.org, where a British woman lost custody to her Austrian husband, and now has to stay and live in Austria, while not even seeing her children regularly. It's horror stories like this, that are going on right now, that makes me want to strongly encourage women in this situation just drop their life and go home, if possible, because things can get so much worse.

I'd consider cancelling the visitors and letting them know the truth. I would imagine most people would be understanding.

In some respects you are lucky the kids are young - they are young enough that changes in schooling shouldn't matter at all. My DCs switched countries and schooling quite a lot and it didn't seem to matter at all. They started in a country with a late school starting age and caught up easily when we returned to the UK.

I'm not sure whether getting angry is always the best plan. Only you know your DH but if he is absolutely resolute that he is in love with someone else and is leaving you might as well 'help' him to go and try and keep things as amicable as possible... But.....If you need to scream and shout at him for you own sanity then scream away

I'd change all my passwords on everything if I were you and I would start doing some lists and collating information.

OP you need legal advice that people here just can't provide.

You need to follow Fuckwittery's advice. If you can't get permission from your husband to permanently remove the children, you'll risk them being returned to him, which will make your situation even more complex.

If he won't agree that they can move back permanently, it might help to view it from the angle that your children are used to Germany, and another big change might not be in their best interests right now?

You also need to secure your bank account, as a priority, and talk to him about where you will reside. If he does give permission, do you have somewhere you can stay here immediately? Do you have the means to fly everyone ASAP - passports, etc?

You'll need to look into whether you'd be entitled to any benefits if you return, and also whether you can satisfy the habitual residence tests required to file for divorce here, etc.

Do remember that any time after you remove your children does not count in terms of them being resident, though. You cannot make them habitually resident here without permission, regardless of moving them here and settling them in new schools, etc. Without DH's permission, it would all be irrelevant should he make a Hague Convention request.

Fuckwittery,
Yes, I though it had been confirmed upthread that she had to get his permission. Further advice was based on the idea that, having been given his permission, what should she do then, and what steps should she take.
My worry is, that he will agree to it, then she might delay, for whatever reason. So based on the given that she has his permission, she still needs to act pretty fast.
Another thing to consider is, that he may give permission, and then fade away with his new love.
But if the OP delays her move to the UK pending permission granted, he may start to weigh up all his options.

Meaning, it was very good advice given upthread that she now needs to take advantage of his possible guilty feelings and/or his little love bubble with his new woman. Children can complicate a man's happiness when he's fallen in love with another woman and THIS is what she needs to take advantage of. And she does need to get them to the UK now, if possible (WITH his permission, naturally-- nobody ever suggested othewise)

Permission in writing, correct? Double check legally what you need, get it while he is still feeling guilty and actually while the company is there is a good time - he's less likely to kick up a fuss in front of people. (don't ASK him in front of people, but do it while they're in the house perhaps?)

don't forget to get all your documents together - passports etc and put them in a safe place.

A good friend of mine has been stuck abroad for 8 years because of this rule.

I would advise you to be as sweet as pie, lie through your teeth, do whatever it takes, to get him to sign something in writing NOW whilst he is feeling guilty and still thinking with his cock. Explain how much his eldest needs to avoid seeing the situation in order to not hate her dad for doing this to her, how awful it will be for the girls on both sides, how vilified his new love will be if you are seen around the own daily, just a shedload of bollocks that make it look as if your leaving is for the best in terms of making his life easier. Tell him how, if it doesn't work out for him with this woman, then he would need to leave the town himself anyway, and you will all be set up logistically for him to just get on a plane and come to you (like I say, any shedload of bollocks).

You don't have to actually do anything quickly or make any decisions (and you shouldn't because you're in shock), but you do need to get something in writing now so you at least have some options. There is nothing in it for him to sign anything other than thinking it will benefit him personally, so get in quick before all his family start telling him to not sign any documents.

Then once you have this permssion in writing (it doesnt need lawyers i don't think, so long as it clearly states he is in agreement with your removing them lto live abroad) you can start thinking about you choices and start telling him what you really think of him

Good luck.

Thank you everyone so much for all this advice. I have been on the phone all morning trying to find the right people and cry to others. I also had a long conversation with him. It seems as though he expects me to take the children to England but had expected at the end of the school year in July. He wants to meet and see the children. I don't want him to but think for their sake I should agree. Friends coming to stay now, very good old friends who I can cry on and whose children will keep mine happy. One of them is also a lawyer so sensible head which I need through all these tears. I am going to find a lawyer here and there and see if I can get him to sign this thing. Thank you

I'd definitely cancel the friends coming over. Or ask them to come for a few days less. Unless you think it would be nice to see someone and unload? Are they your friends or his? I'd not want the extra stress and it could lead to arguments you don't really want to have until he has signed that you can take the kids back to UK. I'd not want to rock the boat.

birgettestyle I'm willing to bet that your H will not want to keep your DC with him. It would interfere with the new love nest. If OW has 3 DC too, 6 DC would turn the romance of the century into a nursery.

Forget schools, places of residence, divorce just for the next few days. Focus on taking in this change and figuring out what you want.

BUT, do make sure he has no further access to your money. And remove passports. (Get one for the baby if you haven't already)

A horrible shock for you OP, look after yourself - eat, sleep, exercise, try to relax some of the time. Tell the kids daddy has had to go away for work, you can tell them a bit more when you are feeling calmer and stronger.

Ah, X posted!
Good - they sound like the kind of people you need around now. I'm sure they will help more and look after you which will be nice.
I'd get him to sign the papers and then go through the details afterwards - you can agree to bring them over for the 2 week school holidays perhaps?

Good luck. I hope it all goes as smoothly as it can. It sounds as though he, ultimately, will be the loser. Your children sound lucky to have a mother like you.

You're doing brilliantly birgitte.

Have you told the visiting friends what has happened? I'd be amazed if they want to come if they know, unless it's to offer you their wholehearted support.

I would strongly advise not to wait until July. If he has agreed in some heart to heart conversation with him, then you need to act now, while he is still in this mood.
There's always the chance he'll decide in a few months that he doesn't want to be with the new woman, and he wants to be with you instead, and she wasn't all she was cracked up to be. If this happens, he's not going to allow you to return to the UK with his children, is he. So he'll basically have got away with what he's done.
The longer you leave it after finding out what he's done, the more the power balance shifts in his favour. Soon there'll be a point where you "Didn't leave"

I think it's a really positive sign that he is able to calmly sit and chat with you and that he has basically told you that you can take the children. I just worry that it won't last!

Hi birgitte, so sorry you are going through this, what an awful shock.

Just want to offer to help with any translation you might need help with or research of any specific questions you may come up with once you've heard more about what H thinks is going to happen.

Also if you want to PM where you live, I'd be happy to google specialist lawyers and so on, no experience personally but if it would help let me know.

Do you have any English speaking friends nearby? I hope you can get some RL support.

Sorry cross post, thank god he seems willing to cooperate, agree it needs to be nailed down urgently. Lean on your friends now. Wishing you all the best and much strength.

No advice to offer but what an awful thing to have happened. I'm so sorry you're having to go through it.

I would also strongly advise you not to wait til July. If he is being reasonable it is because he thinks you will comply if he plays you correctly. Whilst he remains amicable you need to get everything YOU want laid out and signed. Lawyer friends visit is very good, she will be able to help you hopefully. Mu gut tells me he is setting the scene for more revelations and needs you on side for the moment, please be aware that if he can implode your family like this then he will also be capable of behaviour you never thought possible. He is not the man you thought he was...keep that in mind.
So sorry you are facing this.