Completely shocked by husband

[birgittestyle]

This evening my husband told me he didn't love me anymore and had been seeing someone else for the last month. It has come as a complete shock as I hadn't suspected anything. He is a fantastic husband and amazing father until now. We have 3 young children aged 7, 6 and 4 and I have no idea what to say to them.
My big worry right now is that we live in Germany, the youngest was born here and my husband is german but I am English. He says the marriage is over and I just don't know what to do. I want to move back to England but I am not sure how this works under german law.
Does anyone know how custody and moving country is decided? I cannot bear the thought of having to stay here and just want to take the children back to my home. The older two were also born abroad but not in Grammy. We married in England.
Any experience or knowledge would be very helpful. I am in such a complete state of shock and need to think about what to do next.

I also agree not to wait until July. A lot can change then, and he will be out of that first glow of the romance. That's when things get nasty. Get his agreement/permission in writing, get the passports/paperwork/medical records in order and go. Get them set up in school, medical care and all that in the UK. Otherwise you are wasting 7 months there just waiting to get your life in the UK in order. In those 7 months in the UK you could have a good job set up, and the dcs settled in school and be all sorted.

I also think you should leave now and not in July. Your youngest is 4 and will be in school in the UK, but not in Germany. If you move in July s/he will have missed out on 7 months of UK education. Best to move now if you intend to make the UK their home.

I wasn't very helpful as typing too fast- you do need his permission to leave

if he has agreed you can take them end of july, get a piece of paper or better still email him saying you agree with him you should return with the children to the UK. And please can he reply on the email just so you can start to arrange things, school etc.

I agree july is too far, but try not to mention dates.

If your friends coming are YOUR friends and not his, it may help you. Otherwise you may spill your plans and they tell your dh. Be uber careful who you talk to.

Re telling the dc, get him to sign the paper first/ send email first agreeing the move. Then the dc will have an idea of what will happen next, start to pack up, all in an age appropriate way.

I also agree with not waiting until July. I would argue that your older kids will have a big adjustment given the difference in schooling systems and will need as much time as possible, also if you move somewhere where places are scarce, the sooner the better. There is too much that can go wrong between now and then, and also as long as you are there, he has the ultimate leverage over you. You will not dare do anything to upset him or he will withdraw permission. This is the real reason he wants you to stay, not schooling.

I have a friend who is stuck in France for the next 15 years, she's very badly off although making the best of it. You need to be as strategic as possible.

OP, I'm very sorry you're going through this. Agree with PP, please find a lawyer specialising in international family law asap. Don't worry about your German, they all speak excellent English. Remember, you can also apply for legal aid (Beratungshilfe and Prozesskostenhilfe) to cover the costs. PM me if you need any help!

OP I strongly recommend you get on faebook and join the group Expat Stuck Mums where you will find other women in similar difficult positions including me unfortunately. If he is letting you take the children to where you want to be then that is your silver lining in what must be a very dark cloud right now. It's your passport to freedom grab it with both hands and get them settled where you feel happiest bringing them up. Only you know where that is, don't allow anyone else to interfere in your decision and as I said, if he is letting you take them then take them ASAP.

Thank you again for such a lot of help. The friends have been amazing, done all the shopping, made lots of tea, kept the children fed and bathed and entertained and listened to me cry all day. I have spoken to him a couple of times, I have been ranty and sweary and teary and just devastated. He told his parents, his mother sobbed down the phone to me. He reminded me we have joint custody and wants us to see some kind of mediator. Nothing so hopeful as reconciliation but to see what can be done without a lawyer. I have a phone call with a London lawyer tomorrow and a couple of good contacts for here.
The children know I am sad and are very clingy. He came this evening to take them out which had been long arranged outing, my friends and 2 of his DCs went too whilst I'm at home with the other friend. I sobbed by the door as I handed them over.
On the phone earlier I asked him for the signed permission and he said "we'll see, rushing is not in the interests of the children" and "you need to put the children first" I know, I was spitting with rage. He is so cold, not once has he said he's sorry. I need to find arguments for moving sooner than July. I think I could certainly use the education catch up reason. Any others?
Thank you for the support. Tonight I hope I can sleep.

Urgh, as if he knows what is in the interest of the children.. and you don't. Condescending asshole.

I would just keep pressing the issue, saying you want to go back to the UK and you want him to agree to this. It looks like he is stalling, and of course, using his power over you. He sounds like he is enjoying watching you suffer, to be honest. "You need to put the children first." My God!

If he has reminded you about joint custody, is that his way of saying he will never let you leave for the UK with the children? Is he toying with you? You need to ask him outright. At least then you'll know and you can deal with the prospect of not returning to the UK until your children are older. But I would keep bringing it up with him. Say that it is unfair for him to keep you and your children around after what he has done. He should allow you all to go back to the UK where you can get on with your lives.

It seems to me that he is not going to let you go.

"You need to put the children first"

What? Was that what he was doing when he started a relationship with another woman?

A mediator? About what? Financial settlement, financial contributions ongoing or children? He's been giving this a lot of planning. It's out in the open now, so he may also be changing his mind and discussing it with ow. Be careful what your dc can hear and know, sadly.

You can still get going with the divorce btw. You need to file before him. Don't faff about with mediation whilst he files first. Or agree and file. That may be what he is up to. Do not hang about. You don't have to have things sorted to divorce btw.

Do you speak German? Can you work there? If not, then your move to the UK to support yourself adds grist to the mill. He will hardly want to support you and the dc in the family home whilst he lives with the ow for years on end.

Be careful with your internet history and make sure he doesn't have access anymore to anything of yours. And take copies of everything. Originals of birth certs and and marriage cert.

Very sorry to hear this.

One angle you might be able to try is the 'the sooner we go, the better it will be for your relationship with the children - if we stay, they are going to be exposed to the gory details/teased in school/embarrassed - it's not going to stay secret in this village, they are going to hear and see some terrible things, I'm going to be affected every day seeing OW, they are also going to see that... and they are more than likely to judge you/hate you for what you've done to the family than if we can make a clean break right now. Unfortunately they can't be protected from knowing that you wanted out of the family, but they CAN be protected from having it rubbed in their faces that you've chosen to leave the family for someone else right on the doorstep, and the parent of their friend no less. Let me get them out of the vicinity NOW, because by July and six months of them being the talk of the school and town I would think neither of us is going to be able to manage to convince them that you're still a loving father who puts them first. You know I won't take them away from you emotionally by moving to the UK and would never want to damage your relationship with them - my main concern is actually trying to protect that relationship, and their innocence, by getting them out of the shitstorm on their doorstep. I don't want them to hate you for what you've done, let me get them out of sight of it.'

^^ absolutely this.

Get your financial assets secure too.

Al I would say is, if he agrees you can go back to the UK, he agrees. He doesn't get to control the timing.

Good points there brian
My childrens father is south american, i live with the crippling fear that this could happen to me. I was living in his country when i found out about the OW. I had flights back to the uk two weeks later. I could write a book on "playing nice".
I got back ok,and think i confused my ex with lots of legal jargon about British laws.
I really hope everything goes well for you.

OP I have se personal experience of exactly your situation.

I'll pm you.

I will use that argument Brian and also the relevant point about working in the UK which would make a difference. I have been a SAHM in Germany and haven't worked in the UK for 11 years so that too feels daunting. I am still hoping he will wake up to the mistake he is making and that we could try therapy. He was only with OW on 5 occasions he says and is willing to throw all this away. I am still so confused

birgittestyle He will be minimising. He's most likely been with her many more times than that and it's most likely been going on longer than he says. They generally only admit to the bare minimum to keep from looking worse than they already look. I agree that he sounds like he's been planning this carefully and is now hoping to keep you in the country, hence the stalling.

I think that your best bet is to put aside any ideas of reconciliation and focus on gaining leverage to get your dcs (with his written permission) back to the UK as soon as possible. And do not try to play nice here or get muddled with sentiment. He is not going to play fair, and he is not going to care what is best for anyone but him.

I wouldn't be hanging around in the hope that he will want to come back to you and try again. That is just prolonging the agony.

Brigitte there is an online forum for English speakers in Germany, Toytown Germany - I am not suggesting that you get legal advice from other posters but sadly plenty of people have experience of relationship breakup in Germany and can do some handholding and general advice.

What a twat. The next time they ask for Daddy or when he is coming home, take them round to wherever he is and tell them its best for the children.
I am so mad on your behalf, what an asshole.
You are very brave, I'd be doing so much to make their lives difficult.
So sorry this is happening to you, you and your children are worth so much more than this

I'd be willing to bet that if you agree to stay until July, that he will then come up with reasons in July that the children need to stay in Germany.

If he is looking for ways to do things without a solicitor as much as possible, it may mean one of two things. 1- he is trying to pull a fast one and screw you over unbelievably (and that seems pretty certain, tbh) and 2- he is concerned about the costs involved and cannot afford it.

Please do NOT go without a solicitor on this - I know it's a horrific expense, but you cannot trust him. At. All.

Brians advice seems sensible.

Would it be possible to suggest to him that you have a trail split where you and the kids move to the UK 'temporarily'. You could tell him he could then have some 'space' and work out what he wants. You could also propose some dates to visit with the kids or for him to visit the UK with the kids.

I know this would be disruptive to the kids but if you main aim is to move back to the UK with them then suggesting a temporary or trial move might be an easier sell than suggesting a permanant move. Iyswim

You could then convert the temporary move into a permanat move once you were in the UK and he has a chance to get used to the idea.

My DCs moved around a bit when they were younger and they didn't find it too disruptive. There were always made to feel very welcome when they they joined schools mid-year. Education wise I don't think half a years disruption is a problem but I suppose that depends on the DC a bit.

I presume that the person you could stay with in the UK is someone that would be happy to have the kids.

Call the education authority of the area you're planning on moving to ... Or one you have as a potential as perhaps you don't know yet. See the lay of the land with regards to how you can find school places. Aside from everything that's going to be one very important issue ... I do know they require residency before you can apply recently called myself ... If you have a relatives or friends address before you make the move ...

What a selfish selfish man. Brigitte I really hope you find a way to shut him down and stay strong. I agree, he's probably minimising, do your children understand what's going on (especially your oldest daughter?).

It depends on the head of the school wrt places outside starting sept. If it's not sept start, it's up to the head, not the council re places. If you want to have places in sept, you have to apply now via the council for your choices. If you want to move them now, call the heads of the schools and ask if they can start easter or ASAP ( in theory)

I moved my dc to a tiny country school last year via email and chats with the head, and we weren't living in the UK and we had no UK address at the time.

He's going to fuck you about. Do not trust him at all, as he doesn't want what's best for anyone except himself. If he pushes you, look confused and say you need to talk to your mum lawyer

The reality is kicking in. You can use that to your advantage.