Completely shocked by husband

[birgittestyle]

This evening my husband told me he didn't love me anymore and had been seeing someone else for the last month. It has come as a complete shock as I hadn't suspected anything. He is a fantastic husband and amazing father until now. We have 3 young children aged 7, 6 and 4 and I have no idea what to say to them.
My big worry right now is that we live in Germany, the youngest was born here and my husband is german but I am English. He says the marriage is over and I just don't know what to do. I want to move back to England but I am not sure how this works under german law.
Does anyone know how custody and moving country is decided? I cannot bear the thought of having to stay here and just want to take the children back to my home. The older two were also born abroad but not in Grammy. We married in England.
Any experience or knowledge would be very helpful. I am in such a complete state of shock and need to think about what to do next.

Hi OP, sorry to hear about what you've been going through. I think there is a very strong argument for you taking the children back to the UK: they need their mum to be able to support them practically, financially and emotionally. You will be much more able to do that in the UK and Germany, where you will be happier, have support of family and friends, and be able to get a suitable job.
He's the one who decided to break up the family by having an affair. He's been the selfish one. He doesn't get to call the shots and dictate what you do now!
I also agree with what others say about getting a good solicitor and filing for divorce ASAP.
Don't trust your husband and DON'T do the "pick me" dance. He hasn't even said sorry - he's so far from deserving you and a second chance.

Meant "in the UK than Germany", grrr!

I hope you get your children out ASAP OP.

For school places: you could show him some of the English stories about pressure on school places, and tell him that trying to get them into an English school Asap is your best chance of getting them into a good school where you can support yourself.

The LA will have to find them school places once you are here, even if schools are managing their own waiting lists. They will adapt and catch up quickly. The sooner they become emersed in the new language the better. Use all this to explain why you need to move them now!

Protect your money etc. it is the money you have to support your children.

Move now while he is feeling guilty, he is more likely to give you permission.

Well, "we'll see" just isn't fair.

He's shat on you from a great height, he's made the decision to break up your marriage and your family, he's made all those decisions without consulting you, and now what? He wants to dictate when you'll return to your home country? A place where you'll be able to lick your wounds amongst friends and family? Where you'll get the support you need? It's just not fair. Tell him that.

Tell him that it's reasonable of you to make this decision on your own, since he's unilaterally decided to change the lives of you, and your kids with no consultation whatsoever. You want to go back, you want to go back now.

I can't believe the arrogance of the man. He wants your oldest daughter to front up to school and face everyone when her father has shacked up with her best friends mum?

Your kids will be devastated, either way. Tell him you don't want to prolong the uncertainty and upset. He owes you that much.

The school in the UK will get sorted out. Don't lose sight of the main problem- he doesn't get to control your life and your dc, you need a lawyer to file and you must keep pushing the move to the UK.

He's really all about him isn't it? Your poor dc. He doesn't care for their emotional welfare. Write iit all down, all this stuff- daily, with times and dates - because you won't remember and it will be invaluable info.

What Misery for you. Sadly I doubt very much he intends you to take the kids back to the UK, I would take a bet that he is stalling while he sorts out his admin/divorce paperwork so that you have no escape with the kids. He hasn't shown the tiniest bit of compassion, why would start making it easier for you now?
Serve him with divorce papers immediately. Your marriage is "broken".
The only way you will get to leave is proving that he is an adulterous man & you have no means of being financially independent in Germany

Good morning OP, I hope you were able to sleep a bit. I have been thinking about what your h has done and how he is acting. Is there a chance that him and ow have a history and know each other for longer than you think? I am just surprised that he willingly told you about the affair (which could have been the 'decent' thing to do rather than to continue cheating) but at the same time is acting without any kindness or consideration towards you.

Also, and I hope this is not true, but is there any chance that the ow could be pregnant? Sorry to suggest something like this out of thin air (I don't mean to shock or be hurtful) but that could be one possible explanation for his decisiveness about wanting to live with ow.

My feeling is definitely do not trust him because even though your marriage has sadly broken down, at least you can hopefully start over in the uk with your children. Is there a chance you can get his mother 'on your side' to help you fight your corner or would that be tricky?

This is not the kind of thing that can be reconciled.
Their additional behavior is why you don't forgive, not because of the OW per se.
So for example, he is really showing his true colors by hemming and hawing about "allowing" you to go home with the children after what he's done instead of showing a display of modesty and humility and shame. So this disgusting behavior is why you should not seek a reconciliation. It would be very different if he had said to you, "Okay, please go back to the UK for 6 months or however long you need, and I will wait for you, for ask long as it takes, or give you a divorce, if that's what you want."
But he hasn't said anything of the kind and he is STILL with the OW AND dictating to you how you can live. You are in the thick of it now and probably traumatized. Please don't search for a reconciliation because if you give him an inch he will take a mile, and you will find yourself stuck in Germany for the children while he goes off with the other woman and does whatever the hell he likes. He might even lie to you and just carry on seeing her on the side after you seek a reconciliation. He might even do it again with a different woman.

Hi Birgitte,
Thinking about you and your kids today at this watershed moment .

If you want to stay in Germany for yourself , you can continue building up a life and career for yourself , then do it. You might like living there and prefer it to the UK. Just get a solicitor and find out how to prove that your husband is at fault so that he pays for the legal costs, pays good maintainence and properly shares in bringing up the children.

If you don't want to stay there , remember that this is Europe and you are allowed to circulate freely . Your kids just need id papers and then you and they can come and go as you wish. Why not stay with your parents for a break ? I suggest you ask them for help during this time and also with the period to come .

Holding hands and wishing you much warmth and kindness. Take care of yourself.

"So for example, he is really showing his true colors by hemming and hawing about "allowing" you to go home with the children after what he's done instead of showing a display of modesty and humility and shame. So this disgusting behavior is why you should not seek a reconciliation. It would be very different if he had said to you, "Okay, please go back to the UK for 6 months or however long you need, and I will wait for you, for ask long as it takes, or give you a divorce, if that's what you want."

Precisely. If he wants to end the marriage amicably as possible he isn't doing a very good job. What shitty selfish man!

apparently he has only just decided to uproot his whole family life, he must have seriously thought about this beforehand, the chances of him back-tracking are not favorable
As mentioned by PP do not flee with kids if you haven't ascertained legally if you are abducting. He may not want to have all 3 of them permanently in his love nest, but he probably doesn't want them living the other side of the channel either.

Sorry not clear, by this I meant that if you flee, he may be entitled to have them removed back the Germany permanently

Hi, sorry you find yourself in this situation. Whatever you do, don't do anything without professional legal advice.
If you leave Germany to live in the UK your husband can have the children returned under the the Hague convention. This is fairly automatic. Also given that you have not lived in the UK for 11 years you do not have habitual residence, this is completely separate from nationality or citizenship and means you are not entitled to out of work benefits and have restrictions on access to health care, apart from emergency care.
Also if you have a child with special medical needs, the health system in Germany tends to be better.
You do not want to be in a situation where your children get returned to Germany and you may have lost your residential status/possible benefit entitlement there.
Also, if you have lived most or all your adult life away from the UK it will not be that easy to just fit in again and resume your life where you left it eleven years ago.
Whatever you do will be difficult but do not make rash decisions.

Perhaps another way of getting his permission is to reassure him that you will not be difficult about access, will bend over backwards to facilitate etc. He can come and see them every two weekends - perhaps even find out if there are holiday lets or B&Bs he can stay with them in - and half of holidays.
My experience is that he was ultimately unwilling, despite months and months of negotiating, my trying to reassure him. For him it was all about power and control. I had to get court permission, at eye watering cost, and with him stringing me along all the way, but it had to be done. Beg/ borrow to find the funds and find a good lawyer to do it for you. It really sounds as if you need to go back. On the basis of my experience, save yourself the pain and humiliation of trying to change his mind (I think he is just stringing you along) and go in there both barrels with a good lawyer to get court permission/ leave to remove. In a way I am glad I tried so hard to deal with him, as I know there was really nothing more I could have done, but the stress of dealing with him nearly finished me and I still resent him and kick myself for letting him take so much of my precious energy away from the children and me, at a time I could ill afford it.

I think that's a good point Autumn.

It takes a hell of a lot of time, energy and money to get permission. Ask yourself if it's really worth it. After the initial reaction of "I want to go home", you might find its better in the long term to stay.

It's certainly financially easier in many cases - look at childcare, rent costs etc in the UK. Can you really afford it with 3 kids? His contribution will be fairly easy to work out if you know his income - look at the Dusseldorfer Tabala.

Usefully, that's a good point too. With hindsight I do not know if I would have gone for leave to remove had I known then how demanding it is. I could have stayed and made it work. But I also heard lots of horror stories of mothers not being allowed back to their home countries, a couple are good friends, they are scraping by emotionally. I was determined to give it my best shot and was well supported (and thought right up until the end that he would give permission). Now I am just deeply thankful I managed it. I am just happier here, the emotional support is much better, my true friends (I lost many) are almost all here, job perspectives are better, children have settled. Crossing your fingers for you, OP, for whatever you decide.

I guess the point that strikes me about your situation is the school gate and small town scenario. It seems to me that you need to move somewhere else, for your children to be able to thrive, especially eldest DD and you. Whether you can see that happening within Germany or only in the UK is for you to decide. For me, the children would have been ok where we were, but we would have had to move further away from friends, support network and job, downsize to be able to support two households, and here I knew they (and I) would thrive.

So sorry this is happening to you.
I would go for leave to remove through the courts - relying on his good will to let you leave for the UK may not get you far, particularly if he has OW whispering things in his ear.
It is so unfair that the person who does this type of thing has had months to prepare, organise their affairs, speak to lawyers, etc. He will be miles ahead of you in understanding the process and his rights.
But one thing is fact - he will not put what is best for you or the kids above his own needs. He has proven that already. You need to get legal advice quickly.

Please don't rely on negotiations with him to get what you need.
I liked Brian's argument for leaving. I also think all the other comments about agreeing when he will see them next before you take them will also help. You could suggest a weekend visit a few weeks into the new year.
Good luck x

also, Germany is a big country. So it may be worth reminding him if he starts to hint that he wants his children close & not in the UK, that if he makes you stay there is nothing stopping you from moving to the furthest corner of Germany where access is equally difficult, & as he has already fucked your life up, the very least he can do is allow you to go to your home country where you can speak the language & get a job, have family support & ultimately rebuild your life. He after all has his love nest. He cannot expect to have the luxury of decreeing where you live, if indeed he wants the kids in Germany which is the assumption?
Did you see the lawyer today ?

mix has a very good point. I suspect that while he can keep you in Germany, he cannot keep you in the same town - so you could feasibly relocate where you're not running into them all the time and where you can set up your own network of friends. Doesn't have to be anywhere close to him.

Just wanted to offer hugs and support as I'm 20+ years from a similar situation. I survived and although it won't be easy, you will too. Get good legal advice and keep your cards close to your chest. X

OP, the idea that your H will want to look after his 3 children full time is laughable. The OW already has 3, one still a baby, he will not want 6, that will seriously cramp his style. If you were feeling very strong evil I'd say tell him you are going home on your own for a week. Leave the DC with him.

I bet when you got back you would find a much more conciliatory H.

Plus, no court would award him custody when you've been SAHM and he works ft. How would it make sense?

Go on. Give him a reality check.

It doesn't cost any money at all to get permission if he AGREES. Spouses live separately all the time, the world over. Sometimes a husband might go abroad to do a Phd or whatever, and the wife might return to her hometown because it's easier with the children.

So

if he was being contrite and agreeable then you would be fine.

It's if he doesn't agree, that you have problems. I thought there might have been a change this husband would agree amicably because he seems to be interested in setting up another life with OW. But all of his recent "I have joint custody", "we'll see" "think of the children" "stay to July" means that time is quickly running out for the OP and yes, she should begin thinking of other options such as staying in Germany and making a life there, or going for the big guns and taking him to court, at what will probably be a hefty cost.

Personally I wouldn't leave without the dc as it may be used to enforce the dc staying plus op doesn't want him back/ he has no plans to come back. The last thing she wants is him wanting full residence surely?

Can you travel to the UK for a holiday, and put the house on the market?Then you have no where to return to, iyswim, and no job etc. your dh is admanant the marriage is over etc etc, it's impossible etc - and see a very very shit hot lawyer. I know several ( sadly) I have pm d you.