Co-sleeping with teenage son

[FamilyXmas]

I will be spending time over the hols with the relatives who do this. I've namechanged as they know I'm on mumsnet. The mother sleeps with one of her sons most nights. He is 16. Her husband sleeps in another room. I have no reason to believe they 'do anything' but am uncomfortable about it. AIBU?

Is it weird, abusive, or charmingly affectionate?

She only sleeps with H when forced by circumstance. Sleeps with son maybe 5 nights a week. At Xmas I will probably sleep in DS bed, H most likely downstairs.

I had to share a bedroom with my daughter right until she was 16 as our house was quite small, I personally wouldn't dream of sleeping in same room as a teenage son though.
Sounds like she could be avoiding sex with the old man at any cost.
I guess we all have our own individual idea of what constitutes 'normal'. They have lived like this for so long that has become perfectly acceptable and normal family life to them.

Deliverance (The film) comes to mind.

If the teen son is safe in his own bed, the mother needs to insist he sleep in it - for his own developmental purposes and to develop independence.

If the teen son is unsafe in his own bed due to fear the husband may abuse him, the mother needs to leave with the son.

Continuing to have a 16-year-old boy sleeping in the same bed as his mother is going to do a total mindfuck on the kid - if it already hasn't. At minimum the kid should be on a blow up mattress on the other side of the room.

Parentification or spousification of children is abusive. (Sorry about the clunky terms but the concept is valid). Unless he has learning disabilities that mean he functions as a much younger child or physical disabilities that mean there are safety issues to sleeping alone this is completely inappropriate and quite concerning.

Spousification is the word I was looking for. She has done it but not, afaict, to the extent of physical sexual abuse. If they ever go to a therapist when they're older I'm fairly sure they'll find out they've been emotionally abused by both parents in different ways.

Their dynamic makes sense to me now, with the protection element. Emotionally I understand why she didn't chuck H out for violence to the DC but we fell out for a long time over her refusal.

Not quite Deliverance, Finger, but weird enough.

I think the idea that the DH may be violent towards her or his sons is a red herring - or not really the point.

The point is that it is not normal or advisable for a 16 yr old to sleep in a double bed with his mum. At 16 he is likely to be having wet dreams- let's not beat about the bush here- regularly and want to masturbate a lot. Most 16 yr old boys do this in the privacy of their own rooms.

If she is using her son to avoid sex with DH or protect either herself or her son from the father, this is completely wrong- she will end up with a psychologically fucked-up teen, if he's not there already. I'd certainly want his school and teachers to be aware of the arrangement because it needs intervention from SS. He is still legally a minor and sleeping with your mum either because she's scared of her H or scared of what he might do to her child is abuse. I cannot imagine how the poor boy feels assuming he is of normal intelligence because what on earth would his mates think if they knew???!!

TBH OP you are colluding in the whole set up if you know what goes on yet say nothing.

it's not necessarily consciously abusive though but certainly it's not normal and she is monumentally screwing up her child by doing this. I couldn't not say something tbh.

(test)

sounds like SS should have been involved a long time ago

What is the deal with the other dc ? - you say he is the youngest .... where are the others and did they sleep with the Mum as well?

Was the Mum scared of sexual abuse by the father on the children or just physical.

Does the Mum still want the co sleeping arrangement to continue - maybe she just hasnt had the heart to say leave to ds - who maybe terrified of his df....if that is the case Mum is responsible for getting the father out of the house.

Have you spoken with the Mum in the past about this? If not do it gently.

I don't feel there's much I can do. Anything I say will seem belittling, especially to DS, and trigger rows. Years ago I called the police about the violence and the family closed ranks. I'm walking into a dysfunctional set-up and, knowing this, I needed to straighten my head around this issue so I can be appropriately supportive as needed. I won't lie and pretend I think it's normal or healthy.

The eldest son is in his 4th year of uni. He has asked to talk about his family relationships a few times in the past - I'm as honest as I can be within the limits of his questions - and it's likely he will raise it again during the holiday. He has an intense love/hate relationship with the youngest. It looks to me like rivalry over their mother's affections and I'm trying very slowly to help him detach. The youngest doesn't discuss anything personal with me, never has. He seems the most enmeshed.

It's only Xmas - it will be mostly food and films! It's useful to have a better understanding of how this family works (after a fashion) and I've gained some compassion for my female relative, which helps me steady my own values.

I feel sorry for the women her sons eventually marry, but that's a bridge I don't yet need to cross.

This is really, really weird and IMO abusive behaviour by the mother whatever the motivation. The dynamics sound profoundly messed up.

Something, there's no suggestion of sexual abuse by the father. The older children slept with her until about 14, I think. Now all the DC are physically bigger & stronger than their father, he abuses them verbally but doesn't hit them. He has never hit his wife

When I've spoken about it with her, she tells me it's lovely and more mothers should do it! There's no doubt that she's very closely bonded with her sons.

There's no doubt that she's very closely bonded with her sons.

No- she has fucked them up emotionally. And it sounds as if you have lost perspective on this too. I am assuming she is your sister, though could be wrong.

The fact that you posted here shows your guts tell you this is not a good situation. It's irrelevant what the older sons are doing now. The point is that this is a highly dysfunctional family and you are colluding with your relative by not being more outspoken.

I think you are a fool for even going to spend Xmas in such a weird set up because quite frankly your acceptance of it is shown by the fact you are not willing to openly challenge it all.

Why don't you make an anon call to SS? If you really cared for the children, you would.

How strange! Hasn't anyone ever challenged it?
My two aged 11 and 13 will pop in for a quick cuddle on a Sunday morning sometimes but after 5 mins they get bored and we get up.
Very odd indeed!

Were all 3 children sleeping with her in the same bed at the same time then?...ie 4 in a bed? and then just moved out at 14?....or did she take in one at a time...so when one moved out at 14 another moved in?

First scenario seems almost impossible - 2nd seems v contrived to suit the mother's needs and not the childrens - if the younger scared children had to wait for a space.

Sounds like emotional incest. Even if the ds and mother are currently happy with the arrangement and unconsciously dont see an issue - it is clear that the adult is getting something profound from this but does not realise that she is stifling the development (sexual and emotional) of her ds.

She needs to get informed (she should read Toxic Parents) and then make a decision if her actions constitute parentification/emotional incest...she might be horrified with herself.

I was parentified by my Mother from the age of 6 after the death of my father and my Mother could nt manage the grief and my other 5 younger siblings - it was not conscious on her part - she needed someone to lean on - and my life has been an emotional struggle as an adult - she then realised that she had overwhelmed me and is mortified.

The point is my Mum didnt know what she was doing was wrong. This woman can have that info (from Toxic Parents) and choose toeither recognise or identify a clearly defined dysfunctional dynamic happening in her own home and address it -- or not.

If you are unable to approach this directly with the Mum (though I think that she would thank you for it) - you could ensure that the oder son who is open to you is informed. Give him toxic parents to read so that he can cut to the chase and doesnt spend the next 10 years trying to work it all out whilst his emotional life falls apart. He might then be in a better position to influence his Mum.

If you really cared for the children, you would.

Don't say that, pink. The op does care for the children. Things aren't always as easy and 'black and white' for people embroiled in difficult situations, as strangers on the internet seem to think.

As the op said:

Years ago I called the police about the violence and the family closed ranks.

Hmm pink, I might try being more outspoken this year! Her bonding with her sons is weirdly deep - I didn't mean to say I think it's healthy. She has never let go of them. She is narcissistic - the family seems to revolve round her ego (as a woman and as a mother) and her husband's anger. Cutting off the relationship didn't help anyone last time. I don't think it will again.

I read what she wrote about closing ranks. And I stand by what I said. She seems frightened of upsetting everyone, but meanwhile the children are embroiled in this terrible family set up.

x-posts OP.

If I were you- and I know this is hard- I'd talk to her before Xmas and say you felt very uncomfortable by being in her home due to the sleeping arrangements that they have . (Not just over Xmas but all year round.)

You haven't said but all of this points to her being your sister - unless it's a cousin.

you could ensure that the oder son who is open to you is informed. Give him toxic parents to read so that he can cut to the chase

This is a GREAT idea! I will, thank you.

If the Mum is a narc - dont waste your breath - but do try and support the ds directly.

But what use would it be reporting to SS, if, when questioned, the 16yr old denies a problem? In reality, he's hardly a child any more. As for reporting anonymously, I don't think it would take many guesses.

I agree, It doesn't sound like a healthy situation, but I can see why the op feels that there's not much she can do.

Your post is full of negatives Mrs Mc!
For a start he may not deny it.
And so what if they guess who told?
She doesn't sound as if she likes this woman anyway so would it be a great loss to have no contact with her?

Sometimes doing the right thing requires courage and tough decisions.

Look at this another way- if this was a father sleeping in the same bed as his DD- what would people say then? Would they use violence or verbal abuse from the mum as an excuse?

Ok- so a woman can't exactly rape a 16 yr old boy, but it's still incestuous to a degree even if sex is not happening.