To be sat on the sofa crying again because MIL is a cunt and DH is a spineless little mummy's boy.

[BramwellBrown]

Sorry long but it doesn't make sense otherwise and I don't want to drip feed.

MIL has spent the last 7 years bullying and belittling me at every opportunity and can be really spiteful.

MIL decided she would take DD to visit a different Father Christmas this year, one of the expensive ones that has a petting farm with reindeer, DD loved the reindeer and said he wasn't a bad Father Christmas as it goes but his grotto wasn't as good as the 'real one' I usually take DD to at the church fair, where FC knows DD's name and asks how her dog is etc (and is my Dad). MIL 'oh for goodness sake you're 6 any normal child your age knows the truth by now, that grubby church hall your mum takes you to isn't real either, there's no such thing as Father Christmas and Christmas is just a made up load of commercial rubbish celebrating the birth of an imaginary baby.' DD is really upset and doesn't even want her advent calendar because she says there's nothing to look forward to now, I know DD was likely to find out the truth about Father Christmas soon and fully expected this to be the last year she really believed in him but I'm furious that MIL would be so spiteful as to tell her like that or imply there was something wrong with her for not knowing and can't even describe how angry I am about the rest of it, I'm Catholic.

MIL then came round yesterday with a huge shopping bag of sweets for DD and none for DS as hes not DH's biological son I told DD to pick 1 for her and 1 for DS and I'd put the rest away for later, MIL starts on about me being mean and ridiculous, part of childhood is eating sweets til you feel sick I mentioned to MIL how upset DD is and MIL started screaming in my face and calling me stupid, DS tried to stick up for me but DH didn't say a word, then this morning MILs just text saying shes picking DD up from school at 3.15, I've said not today, she sent back 'it wasn't a question'. as it happens DD has a school play this afternoon so I will already be at the school (MIL was invited before the argument but school plays are boring) So DH and I have started the day on an argument because I asked him to have a word with his mum and he told me to stop winding her up.

AIBU to think its not I'm winding her up, she's just a cunt and that if DH loved me or had any respect for me he'd step in occasionally, I don't want him to go NC or anything but the odd 'Mum, that's enough' would be nice, I wouldn't let my parents treat him like this and its making me question if i want to be with him anymore.

If you are going to lose it,at least use a relevant argument not a sexist tirade.

I have indeed RTFT and, while it maybe wasn't OP's finest hour to be so rude to the MIL, it's quite possible she hasn't made a bad situation any worse. The MIL has been bullying OP and side-lining her son, and all the rest of it, for years.

The MIL is a bully. Maybe, just maybe, MIL will take time to think about her own behaviour. Maybe the husband will do likewise. But OP had reached breaking point - and it wasn't her that broke it/the family relationship in the first place. She has tried being reasonable and has had enough. I hope you have good weekend, OP.

The dh said that the op was winding his mother up resulting in a chorus of LTB from the frothing masses. And now the op has revealed that she told the mil that she needs a good fuck which has resulted in the mil rightly getting upset over what she's said.

Thing is, if this is how the op has reacted then one cannot help but wonder whether this is how the op routinely reacts towards/treats her mil and whether the dh is in fact as unreasonable as we are being led to believe.

Assuming this is true, as soon as you stoop to someone's level you lose the high ground. In this response the op has stooped beneath her mil's level, and it would not be unreasonable for the dh to be questioning his position. If my dp told my mum she needed a good fuck I'm not sure there would be any way back from that. And really, telling a child father christmas isn't real does not warrant that level of response. A bit of perspective...

WannaBe for once can you not give it a rest??

Bramwell. It might have taken you a whirl to get there (like at least 7 years!!) but I like your style. With the pair of them. I'm not sure I'd have bothered to give him until Monday, but if MIL is genuinely his only downfall, then maybe. But stick to your guns.

'it wasn't a question'. Who The Actual Fuck Does She Think She Is??

Father Christmas stuff...I'd have buried her at that stage. [These days anyway. I had an evil mil, genuinely evil, who I allowed to get away with far too much and an equally spineless DP. A large part of why he's an ex].

DH is either part of the problem or part of the solution. The is no middle ground and he needs to decide, once and for all which he is.

If he had acted like decent Dad, husband and son, it could have been sorted a very, very long time ago. He allowed it to fester and grow, he's responsible for the enormity of the situation now, so don't let him make this all out to be your fault. It started with his mother and he let it grow.

Oh, what a shame.

You totally blew it, op.

No more moral high ground.

And you have given mil, on a plate, a cast iron reason to think you are a useless, stupid mother.

It won't matter anyway, because you have just kissed your marriage goodbye. Which is a shame - although he hasn't done very well standing up to his mother in this particular matter, I had assumed this was because she had been shouldering an awful lot of childcare responsibility when he was the sahm and you were working. As this change is very recent, I assume they are both struggling to assume their new roles (he has free time while she looks after the kids and you are at work) and I had assumed you were struggling with your new role as primary caregiver as well. A big change for all of you.

And now you've ruined it. Killed your marriage. And proved yourself to be just as rude, spiteful and ignorant as mil.

Ah well.

Enjoy the bed you have just made. And enjoy handing dd over to xp and mil when it's his turn at the 50/50 residence. (I assume mil will have sole care during this time, like she did when dh was the sahm?)

I was totally rooting for you until you proved herself her equal.

Damn it. I thought you had more class.

Pictish, Usual and Arsenic, you're right it wasn't the best thing to say, I had planned to be very calm whilst telling her to fuck off but you know that point where you've been being polite and bottling everything up, then you just explode? it was like that and I'd said it before I really thought about what i was saying if you see what I mean, its not the kind of thing I'd usually say but it very much fits with things shes said to me over the years and once I'd started to stand up to her every little comment I've ignored sort of gathered into one big lump of hatred and anger, to be honest I'm surprised I didn't say or do anything worse than that.

Wannabe, I doubt there was any way back from this anyway, the Father Christmas stuff was just the last straw, MIL has said far worse to me over the years and I've just shrugged it off.

Oh believe me, I understand the temptation. (You've reminded to start rehearsing lines for use on the ILs at christmas now.)

Be careful though; madwoman is enjoying herself a bit a lot too much, but her point about divorce and 50/50 residence is a good one.

Don't let granny grinch get her hands on your DC.

madwoman, MIL has never played any role in childcare at all, she has taken DD off to get a cake or whatever if one of her friends is about and she wants to show DD off but very much on her own terms with DH having to wait in town to go get her the second MIL got bored, she has never babysat DD or spent more than 2 hours alone with her, we rely on my family for childcare as if I need a babysitter for DD the chances are I also need one for DS so MIL isn't any help at all. DH's days were arranged round MIL but not because he was relying on her for childcare.

I very much doubt they will go for split custody if we do split up, they didn't bother to even try for contact with DH's other DD, it will be me having to bend over backwards to get DH to bother to see DD.

Why did you have a child with someone who didn't bother with the one he already had?

That sounded snarky, sorry. Is DH at mils now?

I must have misread earlier then. I was sure you had said dh used to be sahp and mil had been a lot more involved at that point, and that you were now trying to assert yourself.

My bad. You still handed over any right to the high ground.

I don't know, I was young and stupid, I was 16 when we started going out, 19 when I had DD, he said the mum wouldn't let him see her and I naively took that to mean he'd tried and it wouldn't be like that for us anyway because everything was going to be fairytale perfect. I found out about 2 years ago that the mum had never stopped him seeing her, she'd just stopped chasing contact because he didn't turn up half the time

No, he won't leave, which is why i'm still awake, I can't bring myself to get into bed next to him and the sofas not very comfy.

Ah yeah I worded that badly mad, She was more involved when DH was a sahp, because he came running every time she clicked her fingers.

Why has this thread turned on op?

It sounds like she has been putting up with a lot of shit for a log time, most posts are full of support for her, both in terms if her MIL & her DH.

But as soon as OP speaks her mind to her MIL, posts turn on her.

People like MIL (and I have an aunt in law like this) DO NOT understand gentle chat, they don't listen to gentle nice suggestion/talk/conversation once their mind is made up...sometimes you need to just lose to make them see that you are no longer going to be the pushover they think you should be.

You behaved as badly as she does. No she didn't.

You see, MIL is like this constantly. Has been for years by all accounts * sees nothing wrong with continually abusing op & her children. Ruining a very special time for a little girl & ignoring her older brother. Treating the two differently. That is the definition of bullying.

OP had ONE outburst after taking taking too much crap & getting absolutely NO support form her dh & watching her dd go constantly undefended. That makes her someone who food her voice to stand up for herself.

You seriously cannot lump these two woman in the same category!

It's military strategy means it's game playing. You don't play games with people who are intent on wreaking your life. Her dd is 6, she has had this bullshit for 6yrs at least & her own dh has been complicit in that bullying. And now they are both doing it to a CHILD!!...it needs to stop, sans games!

Bullies understand one language, their own. Sometimes you have to fight back in equal terms for it to stop.

I want to win. WTF? What are we, 12? This isn't a school disco dance off! OP's life isn't a competition. All she wants is a nice life with no agro, she doesn't need to win anything, she just needs the bullying to STOP!!

And really, telling a child father christmas isn't real does not warrant that level of response. A bit of perspective... Did you read the bit where op has been bullied for SEVEN years? The bit where op said her ds has been subject to bad treatment & how her dd is now on the end of it...or the bit where op said her dh does fuck all to stop this constant bullying by his mother, so is therefore complicit in it & condoning it?

That makes her someone who found her voice to stand up for herself.

So many typos!

It's military strategy means it's game playing.

No it doesn't different, it means if you want to keep your DC away from toxic people it pays to keep your temper.

Not that I'm saying that's easy. It isn't.

And what's with the assumption we've all being following and memorising all the previous threads? I was just going by ths thread.

Bramwell so basically your H has form for doing whatever is easy? I'm not surprised they're both driving you screwy.

Hey Bramwell, hope you manage an hour or two. Sofas are ok compared with sleeping next to a wet weekend.
Don't let her 'hurt' or DH upset make you back down now.

No it doesn't different, it means if you want to keep your DC away from toxic people it pays to keep your temper.

Losing your temper, keeping your temper, as long as it stops both accomplish an objective. I would very happily raise hell if it meant stopping unacceptable behavior, and I have. I'd certainly be ok with being the bad guy if it meant protecting my child. I'll happily be "that parent".

Really, the moral high ground is just a way of being sanctimonious, and sitting there saying "Oh, look how calm I was, look how upset MIL is" is just another mind game. It's basically doing the same thing MIL was doing to OP, antagonizing her until she was upset. You're just playing the same insidious game where you act like the good guy and sit back while MIL explodes. Had OP been calm, she'd be doing the same thing MIL is doing "I was polite and MIL is a monster! See?". So don't think martyring yourself to take the higher ground is really taking the higher ground. it's not.

I really don't understand this whole "Whoever gets mad loses" mentality. It's just as childish, not to mention emotionally stunted. Anger is a good thing, it lets you know that boundaries have been crossed and it gives you the fortitude, the motivation, and the adrenaline to make the changes necessary. Displaying anger is a good thing, it lets other people know they've crossed boundaries and what they've done is unacceptable.

The fact of the matter is, this isn't a game. It never was. There were never going to be any winners in this. Being calm still would have caused a rift in the marriage, any sort of digging her heals in and putting a stop to it would cause MIL to throw a fit. The objective was to make the problem stop, not look better on paper. Frankly, if you're arguing so you look good, you're doing it for an audience, not to solve anything.

Productive arguing involves figuring out a solution to the problem. MIL has made it clear that for the last 7 years there wasn't going to be a solution. So some hell had to be raised to let her know that under no uncertain circumstances was this to happen again. If she's crying, then maybe, just maybe OP finally got through to her. But we all know she didn't.

Everyone upset at the OP just wanted her to keep her cool for the satisfaction of being the bigger person. Not much different than the people cheering OP on for the satisfaction of telling MIL off.

At the end of the day, if MIL no longer has contact with DD then OP has done a satisfactory job.

Really, the moral high ground is just a way of being sanctimonious, and sitting there saying "Oh, look how calm I was, look how upset MIL is" is just another mind game. It's basically doing the same thing MIL was doing to OP, antagonizing her until she was upset.

No it isn't Bulb. The 'moral high ground' just means not getting right down in the mud puddle.

Perfectly possible to ban MIL from further contact with DC, to get angry even, to say a few sharp things, without saying that particular thing about needing a good seeing to from the 'latest boyfriend' (or anything else that brings you down to her level).

It's not about 'keeping your cool' or 'whoever gets mad loses' or any of the other distortions you are coming out with.

Everyone upset at the OP just wanted her to keep her cool for the satisfaction of being the bigger person.

No. For the satisfaction of not shooting herself in the foot.

I was 16 when we started going out, 19 when I had DD

yes, your mil sounds unhinged but what are her other reasons for not liking you? your dd is aged 5/6 and your ds is older. did you cheat on your dh early on in your relationship-hence why neither of them like your son (still doesn't excuse adults taking out their issues on children), or did you have your ds when you were about 12 years old - do you think that may be another reason why she has that attitude towards you?

your mil has been bullying you for years and both you AND your dh have allowed that to go unchallenged - so i can understand the explosion of anger via text - however you have ALWAYS had the choice to deal with that in a more reasonable and timely manner so you are partly responsible for the situation as it is.

Both she AND your dh have also been deliberately treating your ds differently because he's not your dh's biological son - yet it doesn't sound like you never challenged that behavior and you've allowed it to carry on

Now that it was your dd turn to be 'picked on' you see red and blow a gasket - understandably so but why are your ds feelings and the way he gets treated by other adults not as important as your dd?

"ever" challenged....

Oh my word, this needs to be addressed and fast.

You really need to assert yourself here, you need to be saying "it's not a question'

I'm not sure if I am more shocked at the Father Christmas thing, or buying sweets for one child while another is expected to look on! That's just plain cruel and if your child were playing with a random child and was given a huge bag of sweets you would expect them to share.

She is a nasty piece of work and needs to be put in her place now. Show your OH this thread, tell him it is unreasonable behaviour and you will not tolerate it.

Personally I would go NC, with a view that if she can come and explain how she is going to treat your children in future then you will consider her having some supervised contact.

Damage has already been done, make that clear but don't accept anymore damage!

Good luck.