Dry 6

[sydneysideup]

This is the thread for the alcohol free. Happy and hopeful, continuing from Dry 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a2137624-DRY-5?msgid=50943574
Whether it's been an hour, a day, a week or a year, join us here.

Biggles - good grief, if you can't rant here then where can you?! Feel free! :) I'm sorry to hear that your mother is such a difficult character. My exH's mother was very similar, and has a bizarre way of being able to say horrific things to people but then also be able to take huge offence at any elicited response - she managed to phrase her insulting bombshells in such a way that she always had a 'get out clause'; a reason she could give that justified herself. He/we found it very hard to deal with her, but thankfully she lives in Toronto so we had at least that distance between us. Every year she used to complain if I ever sent her a present at all the money I had wasted on postage, and uses that excuse to refuse to send any presents to her grandchildren. The only thing that has ever really worked for my exH is to cut contact with her, but it took herculean strength because of the constant guilt trips (and he has never lasted very long doing so...). She is so deeply unpleasant that nobody likes her, and then of course you feel sorry for her because she has no friends and no normal decent person wants to see somebody be so rejected.

Anyway - back to you - regarding the frame and any presents, if it was me trouble-maker extraordinaire I would conspicuously tape a gift receipt to ALL presents without exception and if she criticises anything I would immediately say she should feel free to return it. If she criticises the look of any of your DC (how f**ing dare she) I would instantly say "really? We absolutely LOVE this photo, we think the DC look gorgeous" and leave it there. It's all easier said than done of course, and I can understand your prior need to fall face-first into a vat of wine. Bloody well done for stopping drinking in the face of a mother like this. Her comments about your stopping drinking also leave me

Nina & LittleDonkey love Becks Blue too and Corn felt the same watching the kids school xmas play - it's like giving up booze melts away my cynicism ......
Biggles Big hug lovely. Rock and a hard place hey? I can't speak for you - only myself - and there is a very good reason why I don't speak to my nemesis. She is just so toxic to me that however much guilt I feel, my self-preservation instinct kicks in. As teapot says it is so easy to say and so hard to do and did take herculean strength in the beginning but it was a bit like giving up the booze actually in that once I'd survived the initial distress and difficulty it felt amazingly better. Yes I feel terrible about it at times but if she treated me differently there might be a different outcome. I can't change her but she can choose to change herself and if that happened I would review but it's been over 3 years and things are exactly the same so that helps me stay resolute. I'd be tempted to see how this year goes and if she is as hideous as she has been previously and continues to try to undermine your amazing sober achievement I would warn her that if she continues then you will have to review your relationship and Xmas arrangements so she has been warned and then follow through if she continues to be completely unsupportive. YOU and your sobriety are worth more

Biggles like Lucy I am NC too for self preservation, mine is horribly toxic wrapped up in martyrdom and when I got to 40 she started one day and enough was enough - penny dropped in my head and I was like I've had 40 years of this. No more and haven't seen her since.

My mum ruined many a gift giving by not liking it and wanting the receipt. Got to the stage where I bought something from marks so she could easily exchange it. It's not worth you getting upset about the frame if she'll pick it to pieces anyway - easy I know to say.

Mine also has said some terrible things too, called me the worst word you can ever call anyone and lots of other negative vile stuff that I think you never really get over if it's said to you by a parent especially once u have yr own kids and you realise how it should be :(((.

My mum also plays the martyr about everyone else being nasty and wicked wicked people to her.

Big sigh. I wish I had a solution but I don't. NC has been good for my soul but that doesn't stop the guilts and the sadness that my own mother is a cow when it seems at this time if year everyone else is like the happy tv adverts - know that's so not true but you know what I mean I guess.

Enough to drive you to drink

Clausthaler do a really excellent non alcoholic beer too which I love it's definitely saved me from going back to alcohol. I know lots don't agree with substitutes but I do.

Also having a bottle of beer at a party makes everyone assume you are drinking and stops the nosey comments.

Morning all,been thinking about you and your mum Biggles.Have an equally toxic father in law.has said some disgusting things about me,the last involvement I had with him was when dp birthday card hadn't arrived on the day with a fiver in it and to quote him, "that f##kin b## has took it to get pissed on,I'll. F##kin go down there and hang her."
Needless to say the card came in the post next day and no apology. How he thought I could get drunk on a fiver....
Anyway my point is,I think of him as sick,I treat him as I would a person in a bad illness.all that pain he carries round, bitterness and resentment, grateful it's not me. Maybe you could try this Biggles.when the nasty comments come,think ahh,how awful to be ill enough to actually think like that, thank goodness it's not. My head thinking that.
Working alot in the bar,they asked me to serve in a lockin ,but I decided it was a step too far right now.
Stay safe all,dangerous time at the moment,got my defence right up.
Like in the weather forecast I'm on amber alert. Lol

It is odd or not how many of us have toxic parents.

My comments about my DB probably sounded flippant but sadly they aren't. I have been NC with my mother for a couple of years and have never been happier. She is of the Toxic Martyr Narc variety. The ultimate Puppet Master and I just had enough one day and cut the strings. She has no desire to reconnect with me now she knows she cannot control me - I am of no use to her if she cannot hurt me or use me to hurt others.

My poor brother is deep in the FOG and still has regular contact with her. To cope with this he drinks a huge amount and this has had a knock on effect on other aspects of his life. His wife has threatened to leave many times and he has had issues at work. He also takes ADs to numb himself. It's such a shame he doesn't feel able to break free but it's not my life and I never discuss it with him - he wouldn't want me to.

biggles I hope you get through all this with minimum damage, I know how hard it is. Rant away here

stayingdry good tactic re FIL
Littledonkey spot on description that would equally explain both how mine is and why we don't speak anymore. She is visiting the UK as we speak (she lives in France) and staying with my sis and like you we don't really talk about her - although DM would love to get at me through my sis given the opportunity but my sis is wise to her tricks and won't play ball

Thank you everyone I'm afraid the stress overtook me today and I finally lost it with her - really cross as I should have been calmer but the situation was really hard. I went round with dd to pick up a few bits and do a few jobs and she said something so unpleasant about my wonderful dh who bends over backwards for her that I just completely saw I shouted at her, she cried ( what a surprise) and then she did the old fallback thing ' your father used to shout at me' arghhhhh. I ended up crying and trying really hard to explain how I feel when she says such awful things but she just doesn't get it!
In the end I just calmed down and tried to be nice. I know,cop out, but I hate seeing her so upset. Ridiculous really. anyway, hopefully that is the Christmas row out of the way and she may hold her tongue on Xmas day. if not, she'll be going home!

Biggles please don't berate yourself for losing your cool. She said something unkind about your life partner and your anger was an entirely human response! Why is it okay for her to be vile yet if you respond with anger you get guilt tripped? Big hugs.

Thank you.

biggles why do you say "she doesn't get it?" Do you realy believe that?

Obviously you know her and we don't but it seems more likely to me that she knows exactly how out of line her comments are and doesn't give a damn. In fact she may get pleasure out of making hurtful comments and upsetting you. You say she was deliberately awful to your sister, but didn't treat you as badly so there must be some element of her being able to control her vile behaviour.

Why do you continue to put yourself through this? Is it because the guilt you would feel is worse for you than the pain she inflicts on you?

I am not having a go, I am trying to understand where you are in all this. I spent years where you are, making excuses and trying to brush it all under the carpet. Eventually I got to a point where th.e balance was tipped and the effect her abusive behaviour was having on me outweighed any guilt I would feel and I was free.

So please don't blame yourself, you have done nothing wrong. You are coping in incredibly difficult circumstances.

She actually genuinely does not understand that her comments are hurtful. Seriously! I know that sounds unbelievable but it's like she has a blind spot.

I am too soft I know that. I should be harder but seeing her cry breaks my heart. why I do not know!

She's 85 now so I know she won't change. She's clearly mentally ill and should have had treatment years ago so now it's just a matter of trying to get through it.

Sorry.

Don't be sorry Biggles. For a start that is what we are here for.:) But also...do you say 'sorry' alot when it is not your fault IRL? I know that I do. I wonder if that is a thing too with us children of arch manipulators.

Dear Biggles. You are such a good person and have been such a good friend to all of us on this thread. xxxxxxxxx

You'll set me off in a minute xx

Biggles you have to do what is right for you lovely. If you feel that she isn't deliberately hurtful then stayingdry's strategy sounds like the best option - sympathy for her that she can't help herself or understand the impact she has. I agree with Corn and as some-one who is a recovering 'sorry'-aholic I understand I felt like I was apologising for my very existence most of the time but this is one place you absolutely do not have to apologise

Thanks again. I really appreciate this space. I don't want to distract from the not drinking theme of course. Dh is sick to death of me being weak with her although he does get it.

Hopefully the rest of the week will be OK.. dd is 9 on Xmas eve! scary stuff. So of course she is almost exploding with anticipation We drove into the retail park this morning ..and drove straight out again . insanity utter insanity. Spotted one guy with a trolley literally to the top with booze. The price cuts are ridiculous. So pleased I don't have to dash about grabbing bottles. Dh has a stash of lager in the outhouse, the red wine I won and his champagne and I will be quite content with the mulled belvoir, ginger ales, soft posh stuff and becks blues. Determined to just be relaxed. I am feeding my friend's cat every day and she has told me to escape there any time I need to . she's met mother...

I hope everyone is OK today. Remember the shops open again on boxing day!!! xxxxx

Hi Biggles sorry if my comments were upsetting at all. I always get a bit caught up with toxic DM stuff and am prone to projection.

If she doesn't know, is 85 and has undiagnosed MH issues then yes, I guess teeth gritting and a prize winning sense of humour are what' s required.

Could you play DM Bingo to help? You and DH make a little bingo card of things she might come up with ( this chair is too hard, is the milk off?, what have you done to your hair dear?) and then tick them off? I did try this strategy myself but in my case the things being said were too hurtful to make jokes about (you deserved to be beaten up by your husband, your sisters are so much better than you.....)

You sound like a lovely caring daughter and you probably deserve a medal.

Not at all - I get you totally! We used to do that bingo game! it was so funny (to us - she cried of course) and we do anticipate the reactions and comments which are largely accurate.

She definitely has a mental health problem, I guess I just hoped she may mellow with age. Ah well, grit teeth and go running will be one of the plans

Morning all. :)

Hope you all have a very good day. What plans? I have a work project to get stuck in (procrastinating wildly) have to go to a shop to pick up a present for DS that I have had put aside, need to take the animals to the vet for their vaccinations..... it is all excitement here in the Chips household!

Morning Chips I've got the day and house to myself as DC's are out for the day with Grandparents Writing life & business plan for next year (esp in light of non job acquiring last week) and will be wrapping presents and then have sober treat later of trip to beauty peeps for eyelash tint and eyebrow shape and last Xmas shop dash to Aldi. Looking forward to the extra day I've been gifted & hope you all have a great day too

I have to go visit the relations gets it over with.getting ready for the stupid comments concerning my sobriety. Seeing as my dad and stepmother are such for###king experts.will bite my tongue and not say what I'm thinking which is,do you think it's wise to be going out getting pissed every weekend and drinking copious amounts during the week. Just because you think you're different from those that stagger along the street in the early hours Sunday because you get a taxi home.And abit of healthy eating wouldn't go amiss,look in the mirror.But I won't, I'll just put up with the comments, the obvious disappointed looks passed between them when they ask me if I've picked up a drink yet,and the look that follows that says,she will...oh,and they wonder why I never invite them for Christmas day.
Have a good day all x

staying that sounds pretty rough - play the tape to the end and think how happy you will be when you get back to your own home, knowing you stayed sober, knowing you are a much nicer person, and knowing that they will wake up in the morning feeling dreadful. Try to keep your sense of humour.

I am not mumsnetting marking essays this morning and then off to get beautified this afternoon - hair lightened and eyebrows done.

I have done something ridiculous to my back and it is killing me. Hopefully it will be all better in a couple of days.

Have a lovely day everyone.

stayingdry I find it staggering how our families are disappointed when we don't start drinking again - mine are the same. Will be thinking of you.
littledonkey great minds think alike on the pre Xmas beautification! Brufen for back? And I swear by the osteopath if things don't resolve.

Afternoon all . staying dry, it is grim isn't it? just remember you are vastly superior and have more strength of will than them . I had an emergency (not) cycle to mother's this morning with a new phone as she phoned up in a dreadful state as her phone wasn't working properly Dh drove to tesco and picked one up and I took it over and fitted it while she was (get this) shopping at another tesco with the batty old dears from her block of flats..... I know, I know - thing is she would have got in a state and got the wrong one or just not got one and it would all have been too stressful for words.

I didn't mind too much to be honest as I could have a sneaky fag It's the other side of town but good exercise!

I have just impulsively bought tickets for the ice skating rink which appears on the city centre common every now and then. Taking dd and Ds which will be nice.

Then will return for mulled punch and nice telly have a fab day all.

Well that's me back from my yearly pilgrimage to my dad's.Bearing in mind they see us once a year because they can't be arsed to visit us,pretty painless.Abit of an inconvenience me wanting to come today apparently as stepmother wanted to go shopping, had to make it after 3pm to fit in.My kids are their only grandkids for. F##ks sake and last time I looked. Shops were open 24 hours. Grr......
Then apparently my boys were badly behaved because at 6 and 8 they didn't sit still quiet.That's my fault because I drank apparently. Bad mother.
Seeing as they have absolutely zilch experience as parents, my dad left us when I was 5,stepmother never had any kids,too messy,didn't see my dad till I tracked him down when I was 25,their opinion means nothing.
Abit angry with myself for letting them get to me to be honest, thought I had my head straight, never mind.
Like was said earlier, I'll wake up hangover free tomorrow, they won't.