You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

Statistically then, you are more likely to be raped while sober.

I cheerfully wondered for a moment, there, if Cheese's advice would include getting plastered more often But, no, he says being drunk makes us "more vulnerable in the eyes of a rapist." Which is interesting - I've never seen through the eyes of a rapist.

Presumably Cheese has

Depressingly, you're right. But I have seen a change in the general consensus (amongst people I know) in attitudes towards rape and victims of rape. When I was growing up, the emphasis was definitely as per the apologists up thread. I do believe attitudes are changing and threads like this are a part of changing those attitudes.

Is cheese a bloke? I didn't realise they'd said that.

I believe they are, too.

I had intended to have sex with my rapist the night i was raped, and had had sex with him before. Because he was my boyfriend. I should probably take all the blame because, you know, slag etc.

Because rape is just a punishment for not sticking to the rules. Like detention. For the rest of your life.

And do you know what.

Is it worth restricting the freedom of all the women in the UK so utterly and totally in order to prevent just one rape?

I don't think it is, actually.

And it wouldn't make any difference, anyway. If for example all the women and girls in the UK gave up alcohol for good tomorrow, that wouldn't make any difference. Rapists don't rape women and girls (and men and boys) because they see that they have had a drink. They rape them because they are rapists and they want to rape someone. This is just really really obvious, isn't it?

Seven, I'd be even more alarmed if a woman poster knew how women look in the eyes of a rapist.

"Because rape is just a punishment for not sticking to the rules."

Yes this.

This is what is really at the root of it all.

Some people just really dislike seeing women and girls enjoying themselves, basically.

There is also an element of thigh-rubbing in swathes of the "she was asking for it" brigade.

Seven, I like your way of thinking :)
You're right that is the logical conclusion to that way of thinking.
It's why makes me suspect that people who think this way don't think of some rapes as 'real' rapes, just a version of rough sex, because in their eyes obviously 'proper' rape is wrong but short-skirt-too-much-wine-flirted-a-bit 'rape' isn't really rape. So I suspect they would boggle at your (logically sensible) suggestion about prison sentences because if a woman is partly responsible due to her hem length then the case should just be thrown right out of court before anyone is convicted or sentenced as no rape has 'really' happened, has it?

And YY, sadly, to the thigh rubbing brigade

Imagine the fucking outcry if society just went "fuck it, lets change the fucking game" and the message was

-guys, dont drink too much in case you rape someone while drunk
-guys, dont walk alone in case you rape someone
-guys, stay in groups to ensure your mates dont rape anyone
-guys, dont wear clothing that makes it easy to rape someone

People would be fucked off, because its not ok to curtail MENS freedom, but women? Thats fine.

Gin, I agree.
I also think we should take up Seven's call to arms and write to our MPs this very night demanding that sentencing guidelines be changed forthwith. Six months prison time per alcohol unit consumed by victim; a year for every inch her skirt length rises above her knees; judge's discretion to be used in the case of flirtatious or sexually alluring behaviour.

Rules with ever-changing goalposts, Gin.

Don't walk home drunk alone - taxi drivers can rape

"oh, I don't mean an illegal taxi"- John Warboys?

"Well maybe you should get a friend to take you home" - statistically more dangerous than the illegal taxi, and I hazard a guess that his "she was coming on to me and just regrets having consensual drunk sex and is crying rape" narrative would be believed more than her "he raped me" narrative, if she has the courage to put herself into the victim blaming pit that is society...

"Oh well are you sure it wasn't just drunk sex? Maybe you should pick your friends more carefully" - yes, I shall avoid the ones with "I'm a rapist" tattooed on their face

"Yes, well then only go out with a partner" - again, still able to rape me, drunk or not

"And don't ever walk alone in the dark, get a cab" impractical, it gets dark at 4pm in winter and I have a life to lead and a job to come home from.

"Maybe you should stay at home then" or kill myself. I did consider this option after bring raped by the third rapist who worked his way into my life. I have agonised for years about what I could have done differently and why this kept happening to me. The answer is nothing, I had no idea they were rapists when we met. I might be unfortunate and be assaulted again; I can stick to the personal safety rules and it won't keep me safe. Not getting drunk does not protect you from rape.

The only thing that will reduce the risk of rape is not being around a rapist."oh you could do xyz" just makes people doubt someone who claims they have been raped, and makes people believe that rape only happens in certain circumstances by certain people. This does not prevent rape, it encourages it by empowering the rapist and distracting everyone else. Except the victim, who is now having to deal with the shit of everyone questioning her judgement and wisdom and integrity. This really happens - read about the Warboys case - the police didn't investigate him because there was no reason a black cab driver would have alcohol and drugs in his cab, therefore the woman must have failed to follow one of the "don't get raped" rules, that's if she's not just crying rape after some drunk rough sex that she regrets - she can't remember anything after all... this left him free to rape again. This is not an isolated case, placing responsibility on people to not get raped is doing nothing but creating a false sense of security, and a climate where the victim will not be believed.

Absolutely and totally true. Katee. I want to copy your post, it is so so true.

What is the point of curtailing women's freedoms to live a normal life - work, socialise, have a drink, of making them think they are opening themselves up to the 'risk of rape' when doing normal, everyday things, - when rapists still rape, no matter what the circumstances.

They will rape you drunk or sober, on the street, in a cab, at your house, at their house, if they're a partner, trusted friend, stranger or even relative. In daylight or in the dark. Whether you are young or old, in a miniskirt and high heels, or in work clothes, or jeans or in a full burka.

Therefore, the only true rape prevention measure you can take is to never be in the presence of a man. Which is tricky.

It's actually really terrifying. One man who raped me said I was responsible as I allowed him to break the boundaries (apparently clamping my legs shut and saying no and being frozen in fear and crying was not enough boundary drawing). That sounds familiar, I wonder where he got that sense of entitlement and freedom from responsibility.

I would never thought that someone could start a thread on the Relationships board (not aibu, or theory, or a debating section but Relationships, where people come for advice when they are in their darkest and most desperate hours sometimes) to post a supportive thread for victims of a violent crime to remind them they are not to blame, but then some people feel the need to come along and say "oh but you are sometimes". That's really shitty and your words are really chiming wigh the words of rapists. You don't have to say the words "I blame you" to be victim blaming.

We do not live in an unbiased world and if you are raped when drunk (or whatever) then you are less to get a sympathetic hearing. Whether that's fair or unfair doesn't change that truth.

I don't think you need to tell anyone here that, to be fair...it's fairly obvious from countless threads & countless posts that many people are unsympathetic regardless of what the victim did/didn't do. It has been insinuated on here that perhaps if you didn't welcome a man's advances that you shouldn't get into a bed with him ... suggesting that if I don't want sex tonight, I shouldn't get into MY bed, with MY dh!

I do think there is very bad teaching as to what rape is. That it is a crime of violence and not sex. Yes!

"it was just sex, get over it" seems a common theme running through most threads/peoples experiences. As if we are perpetually 'up' for sex & if we resist/are drunk/need coercing, it is 'game playing' and then just 'a bit rough' because sex is good, sex is to be liked always!

People don't see that it isn't about that at all..it's all about power.

It seems clear to me that when posters are talking about taking precautions to avoid rape they are talking about rape by a stranger, or a man they have recently become acquainted with, not rape by partners or people known well to the victim. Just because you can't avoid rape by your DH doesn't mean you can't take some precautions in some circumstances. It seems foolish to me to suggest it's fine to go to hotel room with someone you only met earlier in the evening. Rape by strangers might only make up a minority of cases, that doesn't mean it's not worth trying to avoid.

Cheese are you a man or a woman?

Also "avoid rape"

This casting of women as nothing more than potential rape victims is some bullshit.

Like someone else must have said by now, even if all the women in the world never got drunk and walked dowm a dark alley again, it would not stop rape. The rapist would just change their modus operandi and still get away with raping, because people are so intent on finding fault with what the victim has done.

Only one other poster has mentioned this so far, but I have slept with dozens of men and not had sex. Friends, friends of friends, and colleagues - in all sorts of circumstances from having missed the last train home after an evening at theirs, to crashing en masse at a party, to outdoor activities with shared accommodation. And, of course, with partners. I've shared rooms with men on live-in jobs; one was even my boss. Sometimes there was mutual attraction - partners; friends; acquaintances - and no sexual activity whatsoever. Often there was alcohol, and sometimes drugs.

This isn't weird. It's merely evidence that only some men are rapists. The rest are decent human beings with appropriate boundaries. Decent men who do not see potential victims whenever they look at women; who wouldn't even think of rape.

So, when 'society' tells women to behave as if all men are rapists by curtailing our activities, what's it telling us? Quite an insult to the decent 24 out of 25, isn't it? And why does 'society' want us to act like most men are rapists? Are the rapists speaking for everyone else?

The culture of blame and questioning the victim also makes it harder for someone to identify when they have been raped or sexually assaulted. Or that is certainly how I felt anyway. It took me a while (sometimes years and years) to realise that I had been sexually assaulted because I thought it didn't count as it was my fault because I had done x,y or z. And when I was raped I didn't realise straight away that was what it was because it didn't fit with what society tells me rape is. I still question it now.

If people can't name their experiences then chances are they are not getting the help they may need and they won't be reporting it either.