You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

This thread is depressing. There is no set of circumstances where a woman loses the right to own body. Being drunk/walking alone/alone with a man etc are not crimes. Rape is. The thread was not titled safety tips it was a support thread for survivors where people still felt the need to come and victim blame. Brilliant.

Maybe we need to ban alleyways.

They seem to be implicated in so many rapes.

Depressing is an understatement!

So much rampant misogyny in our society. It is highly disturbing and makes me worry dreadfully for my daughter.

I agree with the OP wholeheartedly.

The idea that by not getting drunk, wearing a mini skirt or walking down dark alleys alone you can avoid rape is a fucking joke (not that ANY of these things are an excuse for a man to violently assault a woman!).

I have been sexually assaulted several times.

At 14, I went to a boyfriends house in the middle of the day in my school clothes to 'watch a film'.

At 18 I got in a cab (licensed) in normal clothing after a couple of drinks out (NOT drunk).

At 24 my boyfriend wouldn't accept that our relationship was over and locked me in to his flat when he tried to leave.

All situations ended in sexual assault.

This is the reality of rape.

Men have a choice not to rape. The logical end game of telling women to limit their behaviour in order to avoid rape is the Taliban regime. Cover then up, lock them away and make them the chattels of men. Its a deeply, deeply disturbing line of thought.

*when I tried to leave, sorry

The even more depressing end to that, WreckTheHalls, is that even when you treat women Taliban-style, they still get raped, and what is more, they still get blamed and face being hanged or stoned to death.

Absolutely, Annie!

to all those on this thread who have been raped/sexually assaulted. It was not your fault.

Thanks to all the people on this thread who are quite rightly on their "soapbox" - the fact that there are complete arseholes on here ranting about "soapboxes" and "tigers" and "not sending out the wrong signals" means that the soapbox is exactly where we all need to be.

to the nice, ordinary, decent men I and my friends have known - the ones who've tucked us up in bed when we were drunk and brought us a glass of water the next morning, the ones who've slept beside us perfectly platonically after a night out, the ones who've paused mid snog and said "you're not that into this, are you?", the ones who realise that sometimes women dress up because they're up for mutually enjoyable consensual sex with a man of their choosing, not open to all comers..

And to all the rape apologists (not a personal attack because I'm using that as a descriptor of behaviour, not naming individual posters - so if you feel this is a personal attack on your posts, well, take a moment to reflect on why the cap fits...) fuck off to the far side of fuck and fucking well stay there.

Banning alleyways?

You are a genius, everything!

Or maybe they could have gates on with a chromosomal test pad so only women and girls could open them? Men would have to go the long way round.

Well said Lurcio.

Another round of applause for Lurcio

As depressing as it is to watch some of the rape apology happening on this thread, amazing posters like Lurcio, Buffy, Annie and no doubt many more I am accidentally omitting makes me feel good and that there is hope.

W e B e l i e v e y o u

Or maybe they could have gates on with a chromosomal test pad so only women and girls could open them? Men would have to go the long way round.

Yes, very good thinking.

Also, and I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe we could abolish darkness?

I mean, light pollution levels in the UK are atrocious.

Or... are they?

Let's put the blame for rape where it belongs - on abstract concepts and parts of our urban environment.

On the subject of women being told to alter our behaviour to avoid being raped, I keep coming back in my mind to the words of Golda Meir. During her time as prime minister of Israel, there was a series of assaults against women at night. In discussing the problem one of the cabinet ministers suggested that a curfew be imposed on women to halt these attacks. Meir's response was simple: "But it's the men who are attacking the women. If there's to be a curfew, let the men stay home, not the women."

Of course people take precautions to keep safe. If you had a young babysitter for example you would either walk him/her home or give them a lift home. You would not let them walk home on their own. Why not? And I wouldn't like my son or daughter to be drunk and incapable and hardly able to stagger around in town late at night. Though of course it happens. It's just not safe for various reasons. And to pretend otherwise is just plain daft IMHO.

I don't understand the babysitter thing. So I walk the babysitter home. Then I walk home again by myself. Why is it better for me to be walking around alone at night than the babysitter? Doesn't seem to make sense!

As travelin points out if I was a man, statistically they'd be safety by themselves anyway, ditto if I were to drive them.

I am horrified yet sadly not surprised by some of the comments on here.

Victim blaming is so engrained in society it is truly depressing. The most shocking victim blaming I have experienced came from an NHS counsellor. It was my first attempt at telling someone about the sexual assault I experienced when I was about 15/16 years old. Her first response was 'was it really bad enough to be described as a sexual assault?' She then went on to ask me what part I had played in it and how I got myself in that situation. I had never met him before. I don't think I had uttered a single word to him. All I had done was be there.

I left that room full of shame and feeling very stupid for thinking it even mattered. I had waited about 17 years to tell someone because I was so ashamed and thought I was somehow responsible. I never told her what actually happened.

What I did do though was get myself a new therapist.

snowflake. 'All I had done was be there.' Exactly.

I think maybe Aduaz was your counsellor - since he was saying the exact same things to women here. And it just shows how damaging this really is.

snowflake I believe you, and I am very sorry the counsellor you saw didn't.

Vivenne, no one has, at any point, said that they are safer staggering around drunk. Being staggering drunk isn't a good idea for anyone, ever, not least because it can lead to really poor decisions and slow reactions.

Why do people like you continue to throw strawmen about? Being drunk doesn't make a rapist rape you, being a violent sex offender makes a rapist rape you. People with views like yours mean that rapists don't have to spike their victims drinks, they just have to buy them for her, because rapists know that people like you will nod sagely and tell each other that if she hadn't had a drink, then she wouldn't have been raped.

What Puffin said.

Thank you.

The same counsellor also told me that I had no right to complain about anything my husband said or did to me because I had chosen to stay. Guess this is victim blaming too. (Maybe she had a point about this but still not helpful to hear).

Jesus snowflake. She absolutely was not right. She was a nasty individual who may have been getting her own kicks from being abusive towards you. It's worth remembering that in all professions there are dickheads who abuse their position.

No one ever has the right to abuse you. Ever.

A counsellor I went to said I was sexually abused as a child because I was "too trusting." She also expressed clear disgust when I wanted to talk about the abuse and advised me to write it down and bury it, ie, I don't want to hear it.

She was a total and utter arsewipe.

The thing is, really, and forgive me if this has been pointed out up thread by someone more erudite, that this view (that being out and about drunk and scantily dressed is an open invitation for rape) is actually very very offensive about men! As if the majority of them are just unable to prevent themselves sticking ther penises into unknown women simply because they have a golden opportunity. Given that I don't for a single moment think that this is true (that, thank heavens, the majority of men are NOT in fact opportunistic sexual predators; only rapists are) it really does seem to tar ALL men with the same brush. Which, counter-intuitively, I don't even think rape apologists intend to do. In their eyes it's all about criticising women. Whereas in fact their views hint, unwittingly, at a deeply unflattering view of men.

Does that make any sense? Sorry if its already been said!!