You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

While I completely agree with the OP I also think that you have to be aware of the potential opinion of others if you are a victim of rape.

We do not live in an unbiased world and if you are raped when drunk (or whatever) then you are less to get a sympathetic hearing. Whether that's fair or unfair doesn't change that truth.

I write as someone who was raped as a young child. The most important message to me is to encourage people to speak out when it happens. That your own kids know they must come immediately to you. (Before they wash the evidence away.). At the time I only told one other child because I assumed no-one adult would believe me. This was in the mid 70s so perhaps attitudes have changed. But I doubt there is a huge change in all quarters.

cailindana I am so sorry to hear that, what a truly awful response. Of course it wasn't your fault.

There is still so much wrong with how society views abuse/rape/sexual assault.

My counsellors victim blaming confirmed to me that I had been right in keeping quiet (as well as increasing the shame, responsibility etc that I already felt). If people keep quiet then the perpetrators are obviously getting away with it, which is why victim blaming is so dangerous and counter productive.

Buffy exactly.
Again this may already have been said up thread but my lovely (and very red blooded) DH could wonder into an entire platoon of miniskirted, high heeled, drunk-off-their-faces women and gallantly refrain from raping a single one of them. My brother too. And the same can be said of the vast majority of men I know. I don't understand why it isn't more accepted that rapists cause rape.
Anyway I am sure this is just harping on the same thing as many have already said.

But wally they are never going to get a sympathetic hearing. As shown on this thread, if you get raped while drunk, people will blame you for being drunk. If it's by an illegal taxi driver, people will blame you for getting in an illegal taxi. If it's a legal taxi driver, people will disbelieve you because "it's very unlikely that a taxi driver would do that", which is what a police officer actually wrote as a reason for not bothering to investigate John Warboys. If you get a friend to walk you home and he rapes you (which is the most likely scenario in the above), then the woman is blamed for being too friendly and having poor judgement. So what can you do? Stay at home with a partner? It's not as if anyone is never raped in that scenario.

Every time someone says "this would not have happened if you had done xyz" it deflects the blame from the rapist. Rape is not an accident waiting to happen, it is an active decision of a predatory rapist to violently assault a victim. None of this helps the victim, or prevents future rapes. Yes people are unsympathetic to victims for getting themeselves into situations where they will be raped, but that's because they are intent, for reasons unknown, to blame the victim. It's not because they are correct.

I've been tempted to hide this thread as it has been upsetting for me to see people saying that rape victims have not taken enough responsibility for their safety, but it has helped me come to terms with my own experiences of assault in a weird way, as I can see that the non victim blamers are 100% correct. So thank you.

Sorry, me again... Because I think that while many men, encountering a flirtatious and provocatively dressed female, are highly likely to think, 'oh, yes, very attractive, I wonder what it might be like to have sex with her,' this is NOT a step or two away from thinking (or in fact ultimately acting on the thought), ' oh, yes, very attractive, I think I might physically overpower her, get her somewhere quiet and shove my penis inside her.'
It's just not degrees of the same thought process.
I genuinely don't even think that good, decent, non rapist men would even THINK the latter thought, albeit that they may well think the former. Because having non-consensual sex, either by force or because the woman is insensible, just doesn't seem to be a thing that ordinary (non rapist) men actually take into account.

I haven't read previous posts but I agree wholeheartedly with this.

There seems to be a new philosophy trend going around about putting total responsibility on the individual for everything that happens to them. About having an "internal locus of control", and that you're in complete control of what happens to you. Its twin sister philosophy is the "positive thinking" dogma, by which if a negative event happens to you, you should change the way you think about the situation.

malpractices and abuse towards those who are in more vulnerable positions in society: women, children, ill people, old people etc.

It seems to me that tougher and less empathetic a society becomes, the less it wants to spend on social and public services and care for its members, the more pressure there is for the individual to take all responsibility for everything that happens to them, even in cases of sexual abuse and rape.

I even read about a case where the victim was accused of false allegations, therefore ending up in trouble with the police and the courts. Such victim committed suicide in the end as a result of the stress, and repercussions on her mental health.

I am not surprised that this way of thinking thrives when there's a conservative government in power. It's absolutely disgusting beyond words.

Sorry meant to say "This way of thinking endorses all sorts of malpractices and abuse towards those who are in more vulnerable positions in society: women, children, ill people, old people etc."

It's just not degrees of the same thought process. Because having non-consensual sex ... just doesn't seem to be a thing that ordinary (non rapist) men actually take into account.

Precisely. This is why - for me, at least - alarm bells go off every single time I hear a man doing the "You're not going out dressed like that!" and "What impression does she think she's giving?"

The police & rape awareness charities seem to agree with me, given their rather good "Not asking for it" campaigns of late.

Further information for rape apologists.

That's one crucial point, isn't it? A women might well have been going out of an evening looking for sex. It's something I used to do quite often in my youth. And so she would dress and flirt accordingly. The crucial point though is that she's looking for sex with a man of her choosing. Not openly inviting any man who fancies it to have sex with her whether she fancies him back of not. The whole idea that men are entitled to have sex with any women who advertises herself as available even if she didn't specifically choose him persists and is a dangerous offshoot of the Madonna/whore mindset.

YY, Peppa, it is an abusive mindset. Take what you want, and never mind if you hurt somebody. It's unacceptable.

Posts above have reminded me of the counsellor I saw at university when I first disclosed having been raped. She asked me if I thought I "came across as a natural victim"

It took me 18 years to go to another counsellor. These attitudes cause damage.

I do think there is very bad teaching as to what rape is. That it is a crime of violence and not sex.

...does not seem to be conveyed very often.

Fucking hell EE, what does that even mean??

A friend of mine is a former SAHD, very open-minded, very kind and gentle. We were recently talking about feminism and he said he had no damaging attitudes. So I asked him what he would say to his daughter (who is still little at the moment) if, at age 15, she went out with friends on a summer's night, say to a youth club party, with very short shorts, a crop top and high sandals on. He (very warily) said he'd be concerned and maybe tell her it wasn't such a good idea etc.

I'm afraid I struggled to keep calm but got across to him that that was one of the most damaging attitudes that he could have around his daughter - the idea that she had to cover up, even on a summer's night, that she "might be in danger" because of what she was wearing etc etc.

He did get it, I think.

I havent read the entire thread because i cant stomach that much victim blaming at a time.

to everyone talking sense here. I was raped and knowing that there are people who believe victims and hold only the rapist responsible is a small comfort.

My rapist was my boyfriend, i thought i was safe with him. Instead i was spiked, beaten, and repeatedly raped.

I want the others on this thread who have shared to know i believe you, and it was not your fault

Gin - I am so sorry for what happened to you. I believe you. I hope you are able to be in a better place now (the way you've phrased it implies it was some time ago?).

Gin, not dissimilar to what happened to me. I am sorry you suffered at the hands of someone who was meant to care for you.

I believe you x

EE that is terrible. Sounds like there are some really bad counsellors out there, doing untold damage to people they are supposed to be helping.

I'm so sorry to hear the stories being shared here. I believe you all and it was not your fault.

I was really shocked in a Relationships thread maybe a month or so back about "basic truths of relationships"- one of the points the OP put forward was stg like "if you keep getting into relationships with EA men it is the vibes you are putting out"

(sorry if I'm completely misconstruing but I do remember it like that)

Penguins yes, it was around 10 years ago. He was my second sexual relationship. My first abusive relationship. My abusive relationship with him and the rape (although the sexual behaviour i endured from him at other times may class as rape too, certainly coercion / abuse) have shaped my relationships with men, my relationship with myself and my sexuality, and my self confidence over the last 10 years.
Im now over a year on from the end of my marriage to a different, but also abusive, man, im finally having rape counselling, and im feeling stronger and more capable than i have since before the rape.

Loveneverfails im sorry you understand, its awful that there are so many of us who have experienced rape and sexual assault.

Gin, my rapist was my everything too, bit of a head F*ck isnt it to have all your dreams stolen in one foul swoop :(

Thank goodness, there is always hope.

Hope you go from strength to strength in your recovery xxxx

Please explain to me why it is the norm to give crime prevention advice for other crimes, but, according to people on this thread, it's not appropriate rape?