You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

ACheesePuff - yeah we could teach our daughters how to avoid being raped in dark alleys by bogeymen, or we can teach our sons not to be rapists.

It wasn't the victim's fault.

But we can teach girls how to avoid being victims

Thisisnotgood I am so, so, so sorry you have had those experiences, they are horrendous. I hope that karma reaches out and smacks those arseholes around the chops, and gives them what they deserve. A fitting punishment for that uni student you described would be to have been eventually charged, arrested and convicting of raping someone.

for you This.

Cheese - teach your daughter, and your son, not to be shit faced in an alley, yes. That is good safety advice for both sexes. Teaching your daughter not to be shit faced in an alley because you believe it will have any meaningful impact on her lifetime risk of being a victim of rape is a total misunderstanding of where her risk lies.

I know two individuals from my school who were killed in (separate) stupid accidents because they were horribly drunk. I will sure as hell be teaching my children about that.

Jesus, ACheesePuff are you just picking up where someone else left off? Have you even read through the thread and seen how your 'advice' is pointless?

If your sentence goes 'not the victim's fault, however' you are blaming the victim.

How do you not get that?

MEOD - Yes, I mean I knew that statistically I probably did. And I knew that they didn't walk around with a bag. But it's the external normality of all these rapists which is really punching home to me from people's stories. I am lucky that all that has ever happened to me is a grabbed boob in a club, a snog I pushed away, etc. I have never lived the experience and these stories make it so, so real compared with statistics.

I know two individuals from my school who were killed in (separate) stupid accidents because they were horribly drunk. I will sure as hell be teaching my children about that.

Indeed. I know of someone who died while very drunk because he decided he could jump from the balcony outside his flat (he was into free-running) and completely misjudged the distance.

My ex has also been in numerous fights, taken cocaine and been arrested for fighting due to being stupidly drunk.

I'm already teaching my children about the dangers of drinking too much, both my daughter and my sons. I will NOT be teaching my daughter about 'keeping safe from rapists' - gives completely the wrong message.

ThisIsNotGood I believe you.

I've only read the first 12 pages, sorry, I just couldn't bear to read any more.

Thank you differentname for posting this. Who'd have thought it would still be necessary to post this bleeding obvious stuff? Clearly it is, I hope just a few people have rethought their attitudes, whether they are posters or lurkers. Most of all I hope that some who have been raped and have become locked into a prison of self-blame maybe have read your OP and have begun to see that it wasn't their fault

more for all who have shared their stories here.

Aduaz shame on you for still being here on page 20 arguing the toss about something that has never happened to you.

to everyone here who has shared their harrowing experiences, you are not at fault at all.

I know it feels like you're banging your heads against a brick wall, but the fact that you've made one person (penguins I'm looking at you) realise just how rife rape is, and face the fact that they must know at least one person who is a rapist, despite probably seeming like a decent chap, makes your sharing worthwhile IMHO.

Here is a really interesting article I found with a bit of googling. Apologies for the source, and I did try to find another one, but this article puts it far more succinctly:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-369262/Women-blame-raped.html

The report talks about some very interesting stats from the Victims Support group:

"A third of Britons believe a woman who acts flirtatiously is partially or completely to blame for being raped, according to a new study.

More than a quarter also believe a woman is at least partly responsible for being raped if she wears sexy or revealing clothing, or is drunk, the study found.

One in five think a woman is partly to blame if it is known she has many sexual partners, while more than a third believe she is responsible to some degree if she has clearly failed to say "no" to the man.

Ah forgot to put this quote in, which is also very important:

The national charity Victim Support urged criminal justice professionals and healthcare workers to "consider how best to educate people about the terrible impact of rape, with a view to changing these attitudes."

Windy - Absolutely. I realised how common it was, in numbers. I think that's a different thing to realising emotionally. And I have come across plenty of men I've found 'a bit creepy' and plenty of 'lads' who, if pushed, probably would have thought made up a lot of those statistics. But this is pressing home how many won't be those people.

ThisIsNotGood I believe you, and I am so very very sorry that happened to you. I am sorry that it's happened to far too many of us.

I get it, I really do get it. Why women, despite knowing that all their advice is of absolutely no use when it comes to rape, they still give it. It's a rabbit's foot, a St Christopher Medal, an elf stone to ward off the boogey man. We know the advice isn't worth shit, but we still give it, because we're so desperate to protect our daughters from the pain of rape. I get it.

What I don't get is idiots, rape apologist idiots, coming along on threads about things which, god willing, will NEVER affect them and telling us we're doing it wrong. That we are actually culpable, and here's how... Honestly, fuck off. Just fuck off.

There is one surefire piece of advice which will save every single woman on this thread and on this site from rape. Never interact with another man, ever again. I can absolutely promise you that you will never be raped. Can't promise you won't be sexually assaulted, but the chances are pretty low.

Sounds pretty man hating doesn't it? However, for the magical thinkers among us, this is the natural conclusion of that thinking. Sadly, I like men, I think a lot of them are fun to be with, I enjoy socialising, I don't drink because I hate the hangovers. Women can't be expected to change the way they want to be simply in order to mitigate a few men's shitty behaviour. It's unreasonable to ask women to do that. Far better that we believe women when they tell us, that we prosecute rapists, that they get proper sentences and aren't just able to wander back into well paid, high profile jobs. We should be supporting survivors, not tearing them to pieces by having endless threads whereby we get to question out every move on the day/night we were raped to see if our rape will measure up to some fictitious yardstick of the 'deserving raped'.

I feel less alone knowing so many others have been raped too.

to you all.

Another long post coming. I am in Australia, so sleeping when the thread appears to be at it's busiest. I'd like to thank those who picked up the gauntlet & shouted down the raps apologists/victim blamers & took time to explain those with genuine inquiries.

PeppermintPasty no worries..

Aduaz

As it always has and always will, the one person to blame for the rape is the person who raped, do you disagree? I think it is VERY obvious that I agree with that only person responsible for rape is the rapist.

The quotes you used put responsibility of the rape on the victim. Putting the responsibility of rape onto a victim is victim blaming, do YOU agree? I am genuinely concerned that you DON'T see it as victim blaming.

Why is the behaviour of the rapist the last thing anyone cares about in these cases? Nothing to say to this, just agree so much with it.

"You walked home on your own Aduaz so you deserved to be attacked" No it isn't! Victim blaming is subtle...victim blaming is putting the onus on the victim to have behaved in such a way as to not get raped.

You don't have to say "you caused your rape" to blame her.

"Why did you drink" suggests that you feel she could have prevented it by not drinking.

It is all about subtlety.

Emeraldgirl2 It really, really wasn't your fault.
PuffinsAreFicticious It wasn't your fault. I am so sorry for what you endured.

And in that recent Ched Evans case I think the hotel and the other people involved must take some blame or responsibility. Could these places not tighten up their security systems. It was no more the fault of the hotel, or other people involved than it was the victim. To say it was [the fault of others] and to say that they should take the blame is taking the blame away from Ched Evans.

because it doesn't seem like you were doing anything that might place yourself in danger. There... "PUT YOUR SELF IN DANGER" = VICTIM BLAMING. Putting herself in danger would be lying on the road in front of a truck, lying down on a train line. Walking alone, drinking, wearing short skirts is NOT putting yourself in danger.

You REALLY need to review your posts! You have accused everyone of misinterpreting what you are saying, do you think that, maybe, just maybe, what you are saying is not what you think you are saying?

Bear in mind this isn't sexual, it's about power EXACTLY! Which means that it doesn't actually matter what is being worn by women, because if a man is a rapist, he will rape.

If you make yourself an easy target when there's a rapist about you're more likely to be the victim That is how victim blaming works. All the ladies on here who have shared have been "easy targets" ergo = they are to blame for their rapes, because they MADE themselves easy targets.

cigarette or key as a weapon at the ready etc And if they freeze, they will blame themselves for not using their weapons, as will society & in their mind, you...because YOU told them to defend themselves & they couldn't. Do you see how damaging your message is? And I do get that you have the best of intentions, but you are not helping anyone by giving that particular gem of advice.

I am saying if the circumstances [i.e if the woman had not walked home after dark/drunk] were different then so would the outcome But you are putting the onus on the woman to change the circumstances, not on the rapist. Therefore, you are holding the woman responsible [for the rape] not the rapist. Ergo you are victim blaming.

because people keep confusing legitimate advice with "victim blaming" without explaining their bizarre opinions. Ok, firstly, I would thank you not to call the opinions of those on here, who have suffered sexual assault/rape 'bizarre'. It is belittling & condescending. It is also a way of exerting control & it isn't welcome here.

Secondly, explanations for our opinions are ALL over this thread. If you care to read the posts properly instead of getting caught up in your [incorrect] definition of victim blaming, you will see exactly where all the posters are coming form.

Thisisnotgood NONE of it was your fault...not one bit.

If your sentence goes 'not the victim's fault, however' you are blaming the victim. Yup..because however is just a fancy 'but'

If you make yourself an easy target when there's a rapist about you're more likely to be the victim That is how victim blaming works. All the ladies on here who have shared have been "easy targets" ergo = they are to blame for their rapes, because they MADE themselves easy targets.

Urgh, that should have come with a disclaimer... my answer is in italics. The following should have been added

"I do not believe, for one second that women make themselves easy targets!"

This is a quote from an MRA (men's rights activist) website. This one is full of men who seriously hate women and make no secret of it. What I found interesting were the parallels between men who openly hate women's views on rape, and a few of the views expressed on this thread.

We try to teach our daughters that it is ok to be themselves but they need to follow certain protocols to save themselves from being raped or mugged. We do the same thing for our boys but the Feminist society believe we can teach a rapist not to rape, instead of trying to teach our hopefully, perfectly sane girls to not walk down alleys by themselves, be vigilant about where they leave their drinks unattended etc. It isn't having a go at their rights but the fact is, there are some psycho's out there who can not be tamed or taught as these idiotic feminist keep spewing.

Also for a girl to get drunk and be raped is seen as the rapist fault, which it is of course but puts no responsibility on the girl getting drunk and talking to strangers. Where as if the boy got drunk and got bashed in a dark alley, he would be told he was warned not to go down the alley and said he couldn't handle his alcohol and made to look a fool. 2 things both violations of somebody who both got drunk.

Like you the term rape is not rape in many cases. Having sex with a stranger who is passed out is rape. Attacking someone and forcing them into sex is rape. An 18 year old who has never had sex before, having sex with an experienced 14 year old who coerced the 18 year old, to me is not rape.

Oh god.