You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

Aduaz - answer Buffy's question, please. She has put it really well. What if the taxi driver raped them?

Emerald I grew up with both of my parents saying "what was she doing out alone at that time?" Whenever there was a story about rape on the news. When I was raped I couldn't even accept that's what it was for over 20 years, and it took a long time and a shit load of money on counselling before I could even get that far.

The 'you could have done something differently' theme gets embedded in your head and you have to reject it. My counsellor got me to talk to myself as if it was another person who was attacked to see it more clearly. The reason why people get so angry with the people who witter on about responsibility is that it feeds this self destruction.

I don't doubt that the man who raped me is now a married man with children and a settled job. He probably doesn't remember raping me and certainly won't describe it as that to himself.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill that's horrifying.

The thing there is it's this sports connection again - like with CE and Steubenville (sp) where large numbers of people were disinclined to see that a crime had been committed - and in order to do that they had to blame the victim - because otherwise it would be a problem for their precious players and their precious teams.

It's grim.

EE my second rapist would did say "you're making it sound rapey" when I explained why I wasn't happy with what he'd done, but in such a way as to indicate he didn't believe what he did was rape at all. He's now married. I feel so sorry for his wife, he is true turdscraping on the face of the world.

EE

There was once a report of a gang attack near my parents house when I was about 17 and the police had come knocking asking if anyone heard anything.My mum told me this in a really inappropriately excited way "you'll never guess what!!!!!!" which when I was like "oooh what?" and she said "apparently someone got gang raped and the police have been round" I was just gobsmacked I mean what a bizarre reaction. Anyway later on my parents and brother were talking about it and one of them said " I mean what sort of person is wandering around out there by themselves at 2am anyway?" and they all shared a sort of nod together and I said "Well, me" and they all looked really shocked and shut up.

Not sure what the point of that story is other than there are lots of weird attitudes out there around this stuff.

EElisaveta so sorry that happened to you :( and thank you for your nice words.
Yep you're probably right, the man who did this to you almost certainly doesn't remember it.
I saw my old 'friend' at another old friend's wedding a few months ago and I'm quite, quite sure he doesn't remember it, or rather that he remembers it as a Jolly Good Time for all concerned. He had a rather unpleasant, if I'm honest girlfriend at the wedding with him who kept loudly announcing how much she hated other people's children or 'brats' as she called them so I thought they were rather suited to each other. He has a small daughter of his own now, too, and I wonder what he'd think if a boy did that to her when she was drunk one day.
Yep, it's a v v valid point about 'walking home with friends' because in mmy case, nad in fact in the case of other women I know who've had similar things happen to them, it's always been a friend or a man they knew, often pretty well.

I think the issue of the Ched Evans case is a slightly different thing (though a certain amount of victim-blaming is clearly going on there as well).

The tricky issue with that case is the question of to what extent someone who has committed a crime (of whatever type) should be permitted to do a particular type of job after they have been convicted and served whatever sentence the Court determined.

In all the unpleasant victim blaming that's going on it's sometimes difficult to see that issue; but for all I've said on this thread, I do have some concerns about the limits, as a society, that we impose on individuals like Evans.

It is really bizarre isn't it Seven, that people act as if things like walking, drinking alcohol, wearing a piece of clothing are all unforgivable actions, like those things are a crime rather than, em, you know, the violent assault. It's such a headfucked way of thinking of things.

Pompodd, we're not discussing that here. If you would like to talk about that, I would advise starting another thread.

Criminals will be barred from returning to many many jobs pompodd so CE not a special case by any means.

And this thread is about victim blaming and we believe you, not about whether CE should be back in football.

Humble, I am rarely directly rude to people, I'm more of a sarky type, but you are simply talking shit

Let me allow you to say that once again, so that you can wallow in your mire.

What an important thread, and sadly so necessary. Thanks for starting it OP

Understood, I only raised the CE case, Seven, because you referred to it on the topic of victim blaming.

The thing I find most depressing about that case (in the specific context of victim blaming) is that there is a presumption that because the woman went back to the hotel/had been out with footballers/was drunk/was wearing a short dress/whatever it somehow lessens the gravity of the crime. Or, perhaps, that it lessens his responsibility for it (because part of the responsibility for the attach taking place is hers). I just do not understand why some on this thread cannot see that.

For God' sake, the introduction that Michael Buerk gave to The Moral Maze episode on the case on Radio 4 did it too! What hope do we have?

Aduaz - what is the point in saying that though ? They've already been attacked, they cannot change it. The chances of them being attacked in those circumstances again are very very small.
You pointing out to them that they should not have walked home alone or shouldn't in future is just victim blaming because there is no other reason to say it at all.

SevenZarkSeven I don't think anyone is saying that. The obvious difference between "it was risky to walk home that way" and "You walked home that way so you deserved to be raped/attacked" is clear to most people. The first is a reasonable thing to say but the second is actually blaming the victim.

For both the newspaper and the DJ I would say those comments are unacceptable because they seem to be actually blaming the victim instead of offering advice on safety. The first question being asked by the police is maybe understandable because they have to investigate everything that happened, they can't just believe your word any more than they would the word of the man insisting you weren't raped. The second comment is completely unacceptable though.

Aduaz - aaarrgghhh! Do you really not get it or must we assume that you have some agenda here?

Let's just focus in on one thing: "It was risky to walk home that way". Why would you say that? What purpose would you have in saying that (whether it's to or about the victim)?

MEOD, some people are just shits love. It would be nice to think that everyone can be reached, that everyone can see how they're hurting others, but that's just not the case. Sometimes you have throw your hands up and say "the world contains some shits."

I am concerned about the impact this thread might be having on you.

Right so you're 16
You walk home along relatively quiet streets after school
One day you are raped
You go to the police
They say "it was risky to walk home that way"
What are you to take from that?
I'll tell you. What you take is that you did something wrong or stupid and because of that you were raped

That is victim blaming.

And in the vast majority of cases, a person who wants to will be able to find "something" that the victim did "wrong".

And whether you follow all the "rules" or not has little bearing on whether you are raped. What has a bearing is whether you are unlucky enough to be alone with a rapist.