Could you take him back after midlife crisis?

[PaisleySheets]

Just what the title says really.

If your otherwise exemplary and lovely husband had a two year hiatus from being a normal human being, where he got depression, was not sure he loved you or ever did and moved out, would you be able to forgive him?

He wasn't having an affair, there's never been anyone else involved. I am not sure why he did what he did. All he will say is that he felt he had to do it.

One minute I feel really sorry for him. We had a terrible debt problem and he'd been my rock for a long time and just couldn't cope. I also feel sorry for him because he made an awful mess of his life, he's had dreadful depression that's crippled him and he's been through a miserable time on his own. I also genuinely believe he loves me and regrets what he did.

One the other hand, during the worst of this "midlife crisis" he treated me like dirt on the street. The first I knew of any problem was an email to say he didn't love me anymore and was never coming home and to move on with my life. I won't bore everyone with all the details of the last two years, but in the first six months he was really about as cruel and unfeeling as a person can be and I got to the point I was calling Samaritans every week.

We had a happy marriage, losing him like that was the worst experience I have ever been through but I fought through it and made a new life for myself 400 miles away and my career took off.

I hoped for so long that he would "get better" and want to come home, but now he does, I don't know what to do. I am just so angry at him!

I know I love him, and before all this happened I couldn't fault him or us and I felt it was everything I'd ever wanted -but everything that's happened since feels so hard to get over.

I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face though, and part of me feels like working things through with him is my best chance at happiness. I've dated a few great men and none of them make me feel that way that my husband did.

Has anyone ever let a wayward spouse come home after a long period apart or after them doing wrong? How did it go? I feel like I just can't go through being hurt again :(

I tried to keep this short by not including too much detail but I can also point out that we don't have children, we are both late thirties and neither of us filed for divorce.

I have shown myself and him I am perfectly capable of living without him, and I enjoy life and have filled it with fun and friends and travel and new hobbies and dates but I admit that without him I feel a constant void deep down.

Fifteen hundred people could tell you it COULD be part of the depression. NOONE can tell you for definite.

But if it isn't how YOU feel. If the anger and hurt does not outweigh the desire to have someone in your life, then walk away. You cannot get what you need from the relationship and you cannot give what he will need in return.

And it's ok to say that

Depression will have made him feel worthless. It will have made him feel certain things and not feel other things. It could explain why he felt as though he didn't love you.

All those things influence decisions, but ultimately there is still a choice.

Your H was very lucky that he actually had a supportive wife and family.

I'm so very sorry he treated you so badly. Maybe now that he is better you can truly grieve for your relationship.

Put yourself first.

I rememeber back to back then when my counsellor told me to try and get him to see that he had to wait until he was better to make life changing decisions because his perspective would be off.

He said it was a risk he had to take.

I don't think your counsellor did you a great service in telling you to try and convince him to do anything.

When he wanted to leave, you should have let him go. All your efforts to get him back and reconnect with him harmed you more than him leaving, IMO.
You can't win it, all you can do is move on as you eventually did.

I did get the impression that you really didn't want to get back, as you are perhaps realising now. You have to give yourself permission to let it go.
I don't think it's unfair on him to meet to find some closure for yourself. He owes you that much at least. And a sincere apology. What you don't need is any pressure from him to get back together. If he does pressure you in any way, that would be a red flag to me.

Paisley, sadly that was the risk he took :( in doing so he broke your heart. He can't undo that.

Hmm....

Someone once said to me that you have no choice but to forgive when the harm anger is doing you is too great. I argued with them vehemently that they were wrong but actually I think they are right. I'm not so good at forgiving. I'm not bad at saying this anger has no purpose so I need to let it go

It is far easier to forgive someone or something that you don't ever have to see or speak to them again.

Walking away is ok

I think I need more time to just recover anyway. All this has sucked me back into feeling like poo and I want to take my time.

I waited two years.

He can wait.

Your post of 15.33 is heartbreaking.

He has treated you APPALLINGLY. Cruelly, carelessly.

Not just once or twice, but steadily, for a long time, when there was no need, before and after he had treatment. When urged not to, when his cruelty was being pointed out by a third party.

I feel quite angry for you reading that post, because I think that while there is a general acknowledgement that he behaved badly, the flip side 'Ah but he was depressed' creates a very unfair dismissal and minimisation of what you underwent. Suddenly, if you detail or dwell on the horrible things YOU went through... it means less.

He may have been depressed, but you still underwent this horrible treatment. It still HAPPENED. He still DID IT, and it had devastating effects.

And the way he did it, the EXTENT of it, the level of cruelty...well, it's very hard to explain it all away as depression with absolutely no reference whatsoever to his character. There must be agency. We see that in the fact that everyone's depression is different - some would withdraw entirely, some would lash out with cruel behaviour when in extremis - some would do what your husband did, and basically torture you like a captured animal.

Your post of 15.33 simmers with anger, justifiable anger, that the sentence 'He was depressed' effectively silences you, and takes away some of your validation. Don't let it. He was an absolute shit. You tried your very hardest, and he damaged you hugely. You now owe him nothing.

Have you waited two years? I would say no - you do not define your life in terms of him - you have spent two years moving on, rebuilding, and you are now on the way to mending both mind and soul. You have taken him out of your equation, and are better for it - do not place him back at the centre of your mind. That, more than anything, is what will set you back.

As I said upthread, my advice would be to speak to him if you feel it would give YOU something, and if not, do not. And absolutely do not apologise for it.

Letting go of anger isn't forgiving.

You don't have to say "I forgive you" to someone's face to move on.

OP said in her very first post that he wants to get back together, that he feels he made a terrible mistake. So for him this isn't about helping her find closure, which I agree he owes her, it's about him trying to go back in time. Well tough.

He owes you that much at least
No. In a relationship there is no owing.

His need in meeting you is to have you understand his upset and regret and get closer to you.

If that definitely isn't on the table, it's not fair to meet.

Just because one person behaves badly doesn't mean you have to too

Just as long as you are upfront about why you want to meet, I think it's fair to meet for closure. It's not about pay back or behaving badly. And he does owe you that. Whether he is prepared to give it to you or not is another matter.

Coffee, are you being deliberately provocative?

Do you really think that if you treat someone like shit over a protracted period, to the point where they become suicidal, and then stop contacting them for over a year that you owe them nothing because you were once in a relationship with them?

OP and her H are not in a relationship. They haven't spoken in months and months. She's with someone else.

She owes him absolutely nothing. He owes her an apology and the best explanation he can manage. Both can be achieved admirably in writing. Neither need him to visit for the weekend with the stated intent of winning her back.

FWIW, I firmly believe that I owe it to my DH to treat him with respect and kindness to the best of my ability. I owe the same duty to every other man, woman and child I come across.

Both which if you read an earlier ops post he has given.

I just don't believe in keeping score or owing either way. Give nothing more than you can willingly lose and you don't have to.

I believe two people have needs. Either they are compatible or they are not. If they are not, you walk away.

This anger is all only coming out now. It's been sucked down for two years out of the fear that if I showed it, or even allowed myself to feel it - he might kill himself and it'd be my fault.

For whatever reason, him wanting to talk NOW and saying he is better has brought it all out. My counsellor has been telling me for a year and a half that I should be angry but I just couldn't feel it while he was ill and unhappy.

So yes, Castle, I feel like his illness silenced me. It silenced all the people around us from saying "poor you, what an arsehole" because all anyone could see was that he was ill. And worse than that, I think probably a fair few of them joined him in believing it was my fault.

I do agree with you. I can't explain two years worth away on "just" depression and I feel there's some aspect of character here too. I think, knowing him and as sweet as he was, he is also rubbish at talking about difficult things and prone to running away rather than facing things and looking back I wonder if he'd stopped loving me for other reasons - what would he have done? Talked to me? No, honestly I don't think he'd have had the balls. I think he'd have been the type to have an affair and just leave when he'd replaced me.

All that makes him sound awful, and he wasn't, but he did have this potential to avoid problems that first of all got him depressed in the first place (avoiding the debt issue) and second of all made him deal with it catastrophically.

I also think there was an element of being so unwilling to believe there might be something fundamentally wrong with him, that it was easier to blame me. And also perhaps allowing others to believe that too. His parents and family grew frosty with me after their initial sympathy and I noticed being "uninvited" to things I would have been invited to before by mutual friends.

For me it was like being attacked from all side and I had no idea why. I remember wracking my brains wondering what I'd done wrong. I really loved him! I was so nice to him, looked after him, spent time with him, gave him affection and love and everything a wife is supposed to do and it felt to me like I was being told I was faulty but without being given any opportunity to understand specifically why that was.

I remember questioning him.

Do you think I was a good wife? Yes
Do you still fancy me? Yes
Do you like being with me? Yes
Can you think of anything I have done? No
Is there someone else? no

He just didn't love me anymore.

Coffee, I don't agree. In a marriage I think you do very much owe the other person something. Like a right to participate even remotely in a decision to end the marriage, like a conversation, like some respect in your position as the partner they have vowed to love in sickness and in health till death do you part.

I am just too angry right now to talk to him or to even respond properly so I am just going to say exactly that, that I am too angry to talk now. As I said it's all spilling out now.

I give respect because it's mine to give. Not because I owe anyone anything

Coffee up thread you said that you didn't think I should meet with him unless I want to get back together because it "wouldn't be fair on him" - but this situation has not been fair on either of us, and while his choices were limited, mine were non-existent.

I thought of nothing BUT his feelings. For two years I have probably thought of almost nothing BUT his feelings. Laying awake at night wondering if he was okay.

What I am most angry about here is that he has hurt himself this way. I hate the idea of him living with regret guilt, sadness or feeling those same feelings of missing me that he put me through. Thinking of him being sad or unhappy breaks my heart all over again but I couldn't stop him. I just couldn't. I tried SO hard. I got on my knees at his feet and I begged him just to stay in contact and meet me for an hour a week, and I told him I would wait however long he needed and he ABSOLUTELY insisted the only way to get better was to be completely away from ME.

Try and actually imagine being told that for years. That you are so bloody awful that the only way a person can possibly be happy is if you disappear.

Paisley, I know you know this, but I'm going to say it anyway, it wasn't your fault. What he did, how he felt, how ill he got, none of that was your fault. You tried to help him and he rejected you and was incredibly cruel. Even after that you still tried to help him.

None of that was your fault. It really wasn't.

You have gone on to rebuild your life, you are successful and even after everything you've been through you are still willing to give love a chance.

I think your H belongs to the past now. It's fine to talk things through as long as he knows you aren't planning on reconciling, and there's no need to do that face to face.

It's not your fault. You deserve to be happy. The fact that even through all he's done you still care about his feelings proves your kindness and generosity. I don't think you can be happy with him. Not now. It's too late.

But that's not your fault either.

Your two last posts.

They are your truth.

Stand by them.

Not only is there nothing for you in this, there is also nothing for him. So, if you do want to feel that you are being 'fair' to him - think of it that way. That if you were to get in touch and say 'I do not think that there is anything to be gained for either of us by talking. What's done is done - I have had to move on, you should do the same.' - then you would be being utterly fair, and humane, and honest.

In the immortal words - He made his bed. He really really did, in that even if you threw yourself into forgiveness and tried again, that bed would still be made. Not by his depression, but by the way he expressed it. Your comments on that come from your understanding of his personality. Now you have been able to access your anger, this is what is coming out. I believe you.

On top of that, I honestly think that someone who could, after everything that has happened, even have the front to get in touch and state that they would like to try again has to have something quite fundamental missing in their humanity. If he understood a fraction of what damage he did, and had the emotional capacity to appreciate it... he would have left you mercifully well alone, surely.

At least this is allowing you to access your anger - and I think that is good. A part of the healing process - paradoxically, maybe this contact will further your healing... not by talking to him, but by giving you a platform to say 'No. You have spent your goodwill. I will not suffer for you any more.'

And this bit, this here, right now, the choice that he never have you is entirely yours.

*never gave you

I agree with everything Castlemilk has said on this thread. Paisley I can't fathom what you have been through - although you articulate it really really well - but imagining a hitherto loving husband suddenly treating you like that is so hard.

I honestly could not get over how his sickness manifested itself and I honestly could never rest easy again with him. the first row, the first sign of unhappiness, the first day when he is a bit low, you will feel a clutch on your heart and wonder if it is going to happen all over again.

You deserve to be happy - with new happiness not a makeshift, cobbled together re-do of the old happiness he destroyed.

FuckyouChris, honestly, I will say that I know what you say about it not being my fault must technically be true, because if I was doing something wrong I didn't know it, but deep down in my inner place I honestly feel responsible. If I'd been better this wouldn't have hap penned. If someone as nice as him had to get away from me I must have something bad about me. I have no idea how to work through that, but when the new man tells me how great I am, I admit I feel like if he spent a few years with me he'd surely change his mind. I am hoping for some sort of "Good Will Hunting" moment because I know my intentions were always only to be a good wife and to make him happy but I can't shake the feeling he gave me.

Castlemilk, every word you say rings so, so true for me. Not just depression, it was the way he expressed it. He has said consistently since the day this began that when he was better he would find me if it was meant to be. I told him outright that by the time he did that he might not find me waiting and he didn't care. YES, I know he was ill when he said those things but I was given a choice to stay in limbo forever (and people around me were calling it "denial") or to accept what he was saying as truth.

I'm not healed anyway, so even if I WERE to really want to try again I honestly don't think I can until I am healed.

If you read my many posts. I have never sought to minimise what you have gone through.

To me it comes down to do you believe it was down to the depression and whether for you this means you can forgive let it go etc. The answer for you may be very different from me or anyone else. That's ok because that's how you feel.

Life isn't fair. That doesn't mean you spread the pain around

However badly you have been treated that doesn't mean I believe you have some kind of right to behave badly back. Ask your questions by all means but you don't need to see him to do that. Also you might never get more answer than you currently have.

It's also ok to say I'm so angry I'm not in a space I can or want to talk to you and I really don't know if that will change.

I will add No you don't have a right to a say if a marriage ends. It might well have ended for person but not the other. One of the few things a marriage does promise is in sickness or in health. Which actually I don't think is the best way of looking at things for your own happiness.

You need to look at what you need now.

I know that feeling well. I would strongly recommend some counselling just to talk it all through.

It wasn't you that made him ill, I could play devil's advocate and point out that he didn't miraculously become better when he moved out. So there's your proof. But it'll take you time to accept that you are not "faulty". You were a loving wife. The man you're dating adores you. He's not wrong to either.

It's still not your fault.