MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

Mommybird me too. I have been NC for 4 years. Dh and I are currently in marriage counselling and it is going to be ok. But it has been 4 years of hell. But we have survived.

Oh my goodness.

Can't help thinking that husband is going to come home & the first thing he'll say is "did you really tell mum that you're glad that she's been crying about this for the past 6months?"

Haha diddl dont worry I already told DH that I said that to her so it won't come as a shock at least.. but yep thats not going to help my case is it!? As soon as I said it I wish I hadnt. Acrossthepond a million times yes. She is the definition of toxic. DH would NEVER go NC with her but I gladly would. Yes I think how we move forward now depends on how DH handles this. Mommybird and ilovemyelectric how did you end up going NC? Are you both having marriage counselling? Oh lord..

I've suggested counselling to my DH but he refuses. I had counselling when I was pregnant with DD2 because of my anxiety. It really helped. Talked a lot about MIL and how she made me feel and it all escalated from there.

I was told to be assertive. We did.
She then went bat crap crazy, had cancer and a brain tumour because we didn't dance to tune..she's fine now. Obviously.

I think my DH thinks because she's gone. That's it and while it is. I still kind of feel angry towards him for all the shit he CHOSE to put me through instead of standing upto her. He CHOSE to upset me than her. I know why, because it was easier than dealing with her and the flying monkeys.

It did get to the point where he couldn't be arsed. He didn't care about upsetting her because she clearly didn't care about upsetting us. It's been 15 months. We've had horrid texts and the usual stuff but we haven't seen her in 15 months.

It's been fantastic.

Narcissists have a curious filter in that they believe that only the information which passes through their hands actually exists. So if they say something to person A, and the opposite to person B, both stories are true to them. They do not accept that A and B would ever meet up and compare stories, far less dispute them. If A and B both tried to challenged the narcissist at the same time, the narcissist would then tie themselves in knots trying to argue to A and B that both stories were true.

It’s a very curious concept to have to deal with and, I suspect, only those who have seen a narcissist in full flow can ever get their heads around it.

So Happymum , prepare yourself that the story she’s telling DH happened, in her mind. She will have been convincing, because she believes it. And it will be all carefully constructed, instinctively, to preserve her own self interest. To her, your version of what happened must be wrong because it differs from hers

Oh Happy ! Seldom have I so much wanted to be wrong when I said I thought no good could come of your meeting. I actually felt a bit sick reading your post about the outcome. That could have been me posting after my olive branch meeting. God these people are so predictable and damaging.

Just keep reminding yourself that you are in the right. You are not responsible for anything in her life that has brought her to this place. You haven't done anything strange or unusual. You met somebody, fell in love, got married, had a baby. She is the one who sees all this as a threat.

When your husband gets back, tell him that whatever comes up in the ensuing conversation between you and him, you are not making him choose, and neither must he. You appreciate his relationship with his mum is unusual/difficult, but that cannot be an excuse for how she treats you and how he allows this to happen.

Ask him what he would find more difficult - visiting his mum on his own, certainly for the immediate future, or an anxious, resentful wife who feels she no longer has her husband's support ?

There's no perfect solution. Everyone loses something here. Your husband is the key though, he needs to maintain his relationship with his mum and support you in whatever you need to do to maintain your peace of mind and your relationship with him.

Glad you're feeling calm. Prepare for the fact that this may change later on tonight or tomorrow. Keep busy and around others would be my advice.

My MIL told people I had an eating disorder..but it's ok cause Im really thin. That was her reasoning. She spoke to people about a pretty intimate medical procedure I was having done. ..then denied any knowledge of it. She texted my DH about how we wasn't making any time for her and she was upset by that...I was in labour at the time...ermmmm. she constantly canceled and let down my DD then moaned she didn't see her enough and that was our fault
She demanded DH to take DD1 within hours of coming out of hospital after giving birth...to which he did!! She then wanted him to go up everyday with her. I was ill and ended up with PND and was passing clots, my midwife told me to take it easy which meant not seeing her everyday. ..she then had a massive tantrum and strop...

And that's what I can think of right now.
oh and she's threatened me.

And not a single apology because she doesn't know what she's done wrong.

Oh to be a fly on the wall at their dinner!

but you know you've told him the ONE bad thing that you said-she can't use it.

You've tried & it isn't happening.

She wouldn't let you speak & just droned on about how she feels.

It was pointless.

It was after the birth of DD2. She hadn't seen Dd1 for 2 weeks because she couldn't be arsed to see her.
DD2 was 2 weeks. Everyone had beeno umdertsadding and lovely. Apart from her. We wasn't making it easy for her. And she got FIL to let DH know about how upset she was..she lives 20 minutes away and they have a car. But because we couldn't do a certain time they wanted not like we did it for 4 years they could come down or make an effort.

I then found out about the lies and the sharing of personal medical information. She treated me like a hit after DD1 and it wasn't going to happen with DD2.

So I explodded. Said I wasn't being treated like that anymore and that was that. He agreed. She made it 10 times worse for herself cause thats when the crazy started. She showed herself up and started dragging the kids into it and that's when DH really stopped caring.

Sorry about taking over your thread
Once i start typing about that woman I can't stop!

Mommy she sounds vile. You must be so relieved to get some peace and serenity back in your life. Carelessdad you sound like you know your stuff. She definitely fits the personality type 100%. Didl I am actually really glad I cant hear whats going on at this dinner. It would probably tip me over the edge.

Nicenewdusters thankyou so much- i will re read that post when I doubt myself. I think you are all whats keeping me calm. I think on my own id be getting in a state.

MommyBird - that's horrendous ! I'd say you're over qualified for posting on mil threads - not a qualification that anybody wants !

I'm considering going to counselling on my own to try and deal with the lingering issues/feelings I have. I'm finding it very hard to forgive my dp and to draw a line under things. He has recently acknowledged that he could have been more supportive at times. However, the things he said (and didn't say) and his actions at the time were so hurtful I can't move on. Would you recommend it Mommy and ElectricBlanket ? (Sorry op - hope you don't mind me butting in for some advice?)

Try not to worry too much happy until you know what has gone on tonight.

My mil would have nose to nose confrontations with me, I'd tell DH who would be naturally not happy but he wouldn't say anything to her and she would say nothing to him.

Don't underestimate the power of silence and brushing under the carpet in some families. As you've experienced today with these characters sometimes it's hard to have an argument with someone who doesn't want to argue back.

I do think this will all come to a head at some point but it's not forced to be one massive explosion tonight. In some families yes this could happen but it others it's years of game playing, a lot of it depends on how your DH handles it not you.

Get yourself to off to sleep and bollocks to her.

Not at all- its weirdly comforting to know we are all dealing with it. Its hard isnt it because these emotional wounds are sometimes the toughest ones to get rid of. I think if your DH is acknowledging he handled things less than perfectly why not try and get him to speak more about it. In my experience men need a little prompting when it comes to feelings stuff! Maybe once he gets going it will transpire that he feels more regret about the situation than he let on initially - and you may find thats enough for you? Or at least a start? I think dont allow the topic to be taboo or it becomes the elephant in the room...

Definitely 100%. Even if it's just for you. If didn't see a counsellor or even posting on here, I wouldn't of done anything. I'd of still been very weak.

To me, it was 'his mom' and 'it's just the way it is'..but even then I'd think to myself, this isn't right.

Even now, when I post what she did. It was normal for those 5 years. I did let it slide because it was his mom. That's 5 years. Imagine 20 years plus!? Which is what our DHs have had to deal with.

The fact we haven't had so much as an apology makes my blood boil. The fact she said, ' I don't know what I've done' REALLY?!

I was spinless and weak after PND, she shadow of myself and she took full advantage of that. She didn't care. She took took took and didn't give a toss about how tired and in pain we was.

After counselling I felt like a lion. Honestly, if anything happens, and we start seeing her again, she wont know what's hit her.

Thanks jammy thats what im going to do. I dont want to try and wait up to hear all about it. Shes dominated enough of my day as it is...

God, she sounds awful.
Maybe you could use her traits in conversation with DH to reinforce how her behaviour impacts on her.
If he says she is lonely, then say that is because she unpleasant and that's why she has no friends, even her own family don't like her! And she has consistently map been rude and domineering to you. So you feel sorry that she is her own worst enemy but that is something she has to change.
He's sorry she can't stay in your home. So are you because DH is spending money you can't really afford to okay for a hotel because her dreadful behaviour in the past means you cannot have her has a guest.

Best of luck.

No, you did absolutely the right thing in saying that to her.

Being polite, nice, playing good is going to get you nowhere - not only with your MIL, but also your DH. You really need to see that - this isn't something you can win by being the reasonable one. It should be - it should be that he sees both your behaviours, weighs it up and thinks 'Hey, Happy is so much nicer and fairer, now I realise how mad Mum is and won't let her craziness spoil our life any more' - but he WON'T. He has had this since childhood, remember. He will see you being reasonable and just think 'Thank God - she's not as difficult as Mum. I can deal with Happy, I can get her to let me off, Mum will never let me off.' Because going NC, telling her where to go - isn't on his radar as even being possible.

The only way you are going to sort it is by showing him - and her- that treating you like shit and trying to impose their worldview on you and your family isn't going to keep their nice dysfunctional status quo, it's simply going to cause ww3. Yes, you WANT ww3. It really is the only thing that is going to topple the dictator.

So when he comes home, DO NOT apologise for anything. Be grimly determined. Let him know you are now really at the end of your tether. Comment that for the first time you really saw how toxic and manipulative she could be, how damaging for your family and your marriage, and you now have real doubts about letting her have any access to your child without you there. Refute the lies she will have told him, but don't get into an argument. You could make a few rather oblique replies along the lines of 'I'm beginning to see that the real breakthrough here will be when you understand how dysfunctional the whole setup is - I have, and I am now convinced I won't be part of it.'

DH has always said she is lazy and selfish. He knows what she was like but said he could just ignore it when it was him.
When I came along, me, from a normal family, seeing this..I don't even know what to call it..joke of a relotionship?
I started questioning things.

She was completely dependant on him. He was an only child. When we moved house we had a deposit, we stayed at his mom's house for the last time and she had a face like thunder, it transpires she was in a mood because 'you've got all that money and you haven't given me any'
I heard her say it and I was just in so much shock.

The more you talk about it, the more he will say. She used the 'I am your mother' to get her own way and that was her way of getting away with everything. Then of course, I had DD and I was her mother, he was her father, he trumped her. She didn't like that.

DH still doesn't talk about her much. I have a lot of unfinished things. I want answers but I can't decide if it's worth raking it all back up.

Oh wow. I really do waffle on! too much wine

Is your DH back yet?!

Thanks Happy and Mommy, that's great advice.

Elephant in the room is exactly what it is Happy. He's hoping it'll keep hiding behind the sofa, for me it's running around the house trampling everything ! I think perhaps counselling first for me. I've pretty much sorted in my head what happened, how I feel about my actions and what's happening now. A completely detached third person to talk to though would be great.

Hope you both have a restful night.

So when he comes home, DO NOT apologise for anything. Be grimly determined. Let him know you are now really at the end of your tether. Comment that for the first time you really saw how toxic and manipulative she could be, how damaging for your family and your marriage, and you now have real doubts about letting her have any access to your child without you there. Refute the lies she will have told him, but don't get into an argument. You could make a few rather oblique replies along the lines of 'I'm beginning to see that the real breakthrough here will be when you understand how dysfunctional the whole setup is - I have, and I am now convinced I won't be part of it.'

This with bells on.

Happy I went to private counselling for 3 years.

It helped me understand why MIL is narc and spiteful, angry and hateful.

Eventually I manged to forgive her.

Enough to ring her and tell her she would be made welcome if she wanted to visit (and mean it). I have rung her 3 times in 3 years to say the same. Each time she has screamed abuse and hung up on me.

Whoever told you to record your conversations knew there stuff. I wish I had. Every. Single. Conversation. The lies narcs make up are beyond comprehension for the normal gal about town.

This last time - DH made it clear that if she wanted to see us she had to ring ME to make arrangements. She never has.

So after 6 months of waiting and more arguing - I decided to end my marriage. The children have suffered with me and DH being at loggerheads. DH has only coped by retreating and ignoring the situation and that left me alone and vulnerable to MIL.

We went to couples therapy and 6 months later DH has finally left FOG.

I can see that the advice you have been given is SPOT ON. But its hard to take my darling - I understand that.

All I can say is that until DH is standing beside you and he will need therapy (probably) to do so - you marriage will be under strain.

Dont let him have his head in the sand for 3 years like I did. Get couples counselling and get it sorted. He needs it more than you.

Here for you.
x

Your post has made me feel teary ElectricBlanket. I think it's the calm resignation in your tone that speaks of years of heartache for you all. Also I'm seeing my worst fears reflected, that what has happened in my life could derail my relationship with my dp, we also have children.

When you say you went to couple's therapy and 6 months later DH has finally left FOG, do you mean this has saved your marriage ? Sorry if I'm being dense, I hope this is what you meant.

You're so right that the advice given here is hard to take. It goes against the grain to think that some people just cannot be reasoned with. I used to read about people going non contact and think it was a pretty extreme reaction. Now I understand - I wish I didn't.

I'd walk over hot coals to avoid damaging my childrens lives. It's so unnerving to see people who just don't have that instinct. It really is all about them. It's just so sad all round.

If I were you, I'd take a nice bath or hot shower, get in my comfiest PJs, drink some hot cocoa with a bit of rum or liqueur in it and go to bed with a nice boring book. That way when DH gets home you'll either be asleep or drowsily reading. That will let him know that you are confident that you did nothing wrong during your meeting with MiL AND that you are sure that he will defend you to her. Don't be sitting there biting your nails or getting anxious. Don't let him get the feeling that you are sweating over his mother!

I remember only once before reading a thread on MN and feeling The Fear. Your thread is the second time Happy.

Which is saying something as we've all read shedloads about narcs on here. But only twice have I felt this level of fear and panic.

I'd like to say I don't want to frighten you but this really is in a different league. Perhaps you need to realise what you're up against here.

She is playing you like a fiddle - playing with ds? She's already seen that you once shook with anger (and I would say FEAR) when she did that. That was her opening shot, to go straight for the jugular and play it out. I'd go so far as to say that the way you responded to her today had very little to do with you. People like this cast a spell.

The awful thing is that your DH is up to his neck in it, mired and marinaded in it from the year dot. You say 'we' and 'us' but there isn't a we and us: he has two wives. His relationship with his mother - or hers with him - is emotional incest. He won't see that - and you have to objectively pity him - but, to her, you simply don't exist. She isn't jealous if you, you just don't exist. Only her darling boy, and HIS boy, exist; you don't feature at all, an inconvenience to be dispensed with. There is no depth and won't sink her talons into to dispense with you. I rather fear she hasn't even got started...

I can't stress strongly enough that normal rules don't apply. She is a serious and significant threat to your relationship: until and unless DH fully tackles this, the deeply toxic nature of this relationship, she will win.