MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

I agree with the PP, she will use it against you at some point.

Yes I think it would be a good idea to send an email like that, get them both off your back so you can sit back and think about a calmer and more productive way forward.

I would keep the email brief and not apologise if you can, just say looking forward to putting this behind us. Words like misunderstanding, we all want the same thing. Grit your teeth and remember you're doing it to buy time and space to regroup.

Then you can set about your real task with resolve - reducing her influence on your life.

To me she sounds ill. Lonely and sad, damaged and vindictive and lots more. You can't change that. You fundamentally cannot change how she behaves. That realisation was my turning point and tbh it took a long time before I actually truly believed it was true. When someone is behaving outrageously, in particular hurting other family members, it can be really terrible to watch and you really want to change them. Tell them off, put them in their place, make them change their ways. But you can't.

All you can really do is change your reaction to it (and in time your DH's). So shore up your strength and use your energies not to change her but to avoid her.

My first such campaign I called "Your Mother Your Problem". I know uor MIL's behaviour isn't the same but you could think up an equivalent. I used to answer the phone when she called and she would just hassle me or try toget to my DH. So I stopped answering her calls. Or hand the phone to DH. He had been happy for me to be in the firing line and didn't like this change at all, but I would cheerfully walk away saying... "Your Mother Your Problem". Or he would invite them for lunch and I would say, well I'm off for lunch elsewhere, can't be bothered -YMYP. Not every time but often enough that I felt I was again in charge of my life and my headspace. He soon got fed up with all the extra hassle I had fielded for years and lo and behold the "How do we deal with DM" conversations started. WIN!!! I'm still battling of course and it never truly end. But it gets a lot better.

So, Happy how are you going to start your first campaign? I'm sure it can't really be all that fun for your DH to sit at home with DM and DS or (why, why?) go on extended holidays with her. How can you make this even more dull for DH? More tedious, more inconvenient? Without causing secondary arguments of course.

What are you currently doing to make this unnatural situation to easy or comfortable for him?

you'll be playing into her hands.

.. or ... what nancy said ... boxing clever =)

although (sorry for triple post) ... nancy how would you stop the extreme imposition into the OP's life? coming to the house for the day, taking the baby over?

Genuinely asking because my nature is to go in full front and the OP has a subtler battle on her hands here. But the intrusions far far into her private life with her husband are unsustainable. How best to handle it subtly given that her husband rolls over, while still keeping things endurable for her?

Don't bother happy it make a difference . Also I agree about the boundaries she already has pushed that one by being in your home with your dh and dc after you saying she couldn't stay . That was a big f y ! I can be in your home if I want .

And don't forget you already went to make peace !!!!!!!!! And it got you no where . don't go running after her with an email . Please please don't .

Sorry won't make a difference . Phone again

ok ive just drafted an email.. can you proof read for me??!!

its the last thing my natural instinct wants to do, but im almost gaining a feeling of calm from thinking im playing a long game...

I still think you should show him this tread. All 220+ pages of it. We can't all be wrong.

I also think you worry too much about your DHs feelings, he doesn't always worry about yours.
She has treated you apaulingly, he hasn't stood upto her. You did. She hasn't apologised yet she's allwowed in your house. I will bet money next visit she will be staying there instead of a hotel.
He chose to upset you rather than his mum.
and your worried about showing him this thread because he will be angry?!
Why? Because its all true.

You need to toughen up OP.

tulip she didnt stay, she had to stay in a hotel and i had no contact with her

DO NOT POST IT. WHATEVER YOU DO!

I was you. I did the exact the same. Everyone told me not to and I did because I thought I could reason with her.

Big fat no. It was turned round and manipulated. Don't do it to yourself.

I thought I would email as I didnt feel like I had a chance to speak to you when we met up and didnt feel it was moving very constructively so thought it was best left on that day.

I have taken on board what you said, and feel that unfortunately your anger came from completely misinterpreting both myself and the situations around that time. When I took GS to bed at the BBQ it was simply because I thought you were having a nice time with your family and didnt want you to feel you had to cut it short. Nothing more to it than that. As for not wanting to be at DH's party, I have no idea where you got that from. We had a fantastic evening and it was lovely to be together and amongst friends.

The following day, I didnt think it would have been a problem that GS was with you. To my knowledge, no agreement had been made, and therefore did not realise I had to be back at the house for a specific time. You were due to see DH the following weekend alone anyway, so to be honest I didnt think it was an issue at all.

I think what is key here, is that you need to communicate. If you would like to do something specific, make sure that is mentioned, otherwise nobody knows. And then when you get angry, to the rest of us, it comes from nowhere and seems quite bizarre. Saying that, from what you said on Wednesday I understand that you were going through a difficult time with your hormones and your mum passing away. I am not a cold person, and I acknowledge that this was a tough time and things like this can affect you.

For us to move forward in a positive way, I need you to respect some boundaries. GS is our son. If you want to make any kind of decision regarding GS, you must run it past DH or I first. You need to be respectful of us as parents and not take anything into your own hands.

Equally, if you want to spend time with our family, do so with a non critical eye. I don't want to feel like you are judging how or what we do.

Finally mine and DH's relationship. It is not cool for you to bad mouth me to DH. I'm not perfect, but I like to feel that I make your son happy. And in turn, regardless of whether you like or don't like me, it is not nice to be speaking to him criticising me.

You said you didn't understand why I was punishing you. I am not punishing you. I just cannot have you stay in my home if you cannot see anything wrong with the way you behaved. If you cannot see this, we can't move forward because I won't allow a similar situation to happen again.

I am wary of you because your intentions don't always seem to be good. DH and DS are my family and the centre of my world. If I feel anything or anyone is causing a negative impact on either of them I will do anything in my power to stop it. We are happy and love eachother very much, and rather than trying to cause problems, it would be lovely if you could just be happy for us.

As much as I also respect you wanting time alone with DH, and I think historically I have always been really considerate of this, you must also appreciate that we are now a family, and it is unreasonable to get angry if you do not spend alone time with him when you visit.

DONT WORRY!! I havent sent it!! if u all think its crap idea then i wont!!!

There is no way forward with this type of unreasonable person. She has decided you're in the wrong and she's in the right. The only way forward is to have absolutely nothing at all to do with her for the forseeable future. If your DH wants a relationship with his mother then he must visit her at her house and take your DS. When his Mum says he's choosing you over her that is a massive red flag. She's toxic.

This is going to end so badly.

My money is on, her ringing your DH about the email you sent her and how she is so upset you have blamed her when all she has ever done is love you. She will be crying and upset. And its all your fault.

DH will be pissed at you for upsetting her and dragging him into it.

You have critisided her. You have blamed her. She will not be found fault with and she is completely the victim.

That thing I was telling you about, when I stood up for myself and she went bat crap crazy? This is it.

I don't think that she'll be at all interested & it was more than likely deliberate that you didn't get to say anything.

She got time with her GS, a pretend go at making up with you, a meal out with her son & time in your house with her son & Gs.

Please don't send the email, Happy - it won't be any more successful than the meeting was.

I agree with Mommybird that you're being a lot more considerate of your DH than he is of you. He let you deal with a whole load of shit that the couldn't cope with himself, & has now flounced off into the spare bedroom because you didn't magically make everything okay with his mum.

Please don't make any more effort ATM, other than on trying to reclaim a bit of mental space away from this awful situation. I actually don't see what you can do while your DH is behaving like this. You can pretend MIL doesn't exist, but that's only going to work until the next time she wants to visit. And I can't see any reason to think your DH is going to accept your boundaries in terms of her not staying at the house indefinitely.

Ok, im being stupid youre right. Email deleted. Im going to go and have a bath and clear my mind of trying to please people!! Thanks for stopping me.

Oh God, definitely don't send it. Posted before I'd read it - just thought it was a bad idea generally. Having read it, I think it will make things worse.

There's way too much explanation & justification & you don't owe her any of that. It's also asking her to accept responsibility for her behaviour, & that's just not going to happen, on the evidence you've given in this thread.

It's also too honest, letting her know your worries & wariness about her, & from what you've said so far I can't see it's a good idea to make yourself vulnerable in that way.

X-posted, sorry, happy.

Good plan Happy. Engaging just validates the batshit and gives her fuel for more.

Enjoy the bath.

Thank you.
If you can somehow look at my past threads do. Most women here have been in your position. All Toxic people are the same. Honestly, it's creepy.

Nothing will change because your DH isn't standing upto her. It's you VS them. He is chosing her feelings over yours!
You need, really need to show him this thread or at least get him onside.

Your marriage will suffer.

I wouldn't make yourself scarce when she is around, it is your home, if your DH wants to spend time with her,he can, but not in your home. I'd also be wary of letting your DH take your DS on visits, no doubt she will spout her crap at him too, how awful for him to hear his GM badmouthing his mum, also do you want him to grow up wthout a spine like his dad?

Regarding the email - I don't think it will change anything in your long term relationship, so I think if you do send it, keep it as short as possible. But I do see the value of MIL thinking there has been some kind of resolution, from the point of view of buying time and headspace. Don't put your heart into an email like that, don't expect change. If you are going to send it, use it like a weapon the achieve your ultimate goal (you'd think I was an army general, I'm nothing of the sort!!!).

I'm happy to read a draft.

I also respect the views of Attila, Meerka and the others who are advising you against sending the email. I have been a lurker follower of their advice for years and when you decide on a course of action, it can be invaluable to have advice like that in your ears - walk away, stay away, ignore, ignore, ignore.

I feel that in this case though that you are one step away from that place. You can't just totally ignore (yet) as your DH doesn't seem to support this yet (though from your original OP I reread that he called her to tell her she had to apologise to you - He has potential for great things!!!!!).

Let me post this and then I want to write some more musings on your DH. It occurs to me that it would be very useful on a thread like this to hear from an ex-FOGGY-DH to hear more about how they managed to get away from a narc SM. I will think a bit about any conversations I have had with DH through the years.

I've never actually asked him outright about this issue, but I will do this and post it. It will have to wait until tomorrow evening though, when I get a chance to talk to him. I'll ask him how it felt when I was in full attack mode about MIL, why he didn't feel he could support me (saying they are weak and selfish is of course part of is, but not the whole story I don't think). I'll ask him which changes in my behaviour helped him the most to open up to me and to stand up to her.

We were in a very bad place with regards to MIL over many years. I just want you to know that I'm giving this advice as someone who knows the full force of a Narc.

She refused to meet me for the first 5 years of our relationship; she broke furniture and called in the flying monkeys to break us up when we announced our engagement. She organised blind dates for my then DP. She slapped me on my wedding day (a thread in it's own right). She tells DH not to listen to me, I can be divorced but he only has one DM. She's a charmer.

My DH couldn't deal with it at all. He did things like sneak off to his brother's wedding because he didn't think he could tell me and not invite me. He would come to stay with me in another town then rush back two hours later to see his DP for lunch and pretend he was never away. Awful.

It took him a long time to get out of the FOG but I'm glad I went through it with him and forgave because he is an absolute lovely man and husband and a fantastic father. He was scared. Scared and immature and stupid and yes weak and selfish. But mainly very scared of his DM.

I'll have a chat with him tomorrow to see if there are any useful insights.