MIL problems..

[Happymum1985]

Thought id post here as really feel at a loss about what to do.. Sorry for the essay, its been going round and round in my head.

My DH is an only child and has always had a close relationship with his mum. She has had a troubled life and because of this, has quite a few issues. Up until DS was born last year, I found her hard work and quite demanding, but we managed to get along fine and I always made effort to see her and have contact with her because having a relationship with her was important to me.

Looking back there were signs she possibly didnt like me, because her reaction when DH told her about our engagement and pregnancy were very odd (she said she was busy and would call back later and hung up the phone). There was the odd thing like her wanting to go on holiday (on her own) with DH for two weeks (two years in a row) and expecting him to go down and stay with her a week before DS was born to 'dig holes in her garden' ?! But again, I tried to be tolerant of all this. She is on her own and doesnt have friends so I understood she was lonely.

Once DS had been born it started to go downhill fast. She came to stay with us the day I got out of hospital even though I had specifically said no visitors. When I got back and she showed up, I didnt have the energy/ didnt want to cause a scene so bit my tongue. She then proceeded to stay for 4 nights and didnt lift a finger to help, wanted to hold DS all the time when I was still in the stage when I felt like I wanted to bond with him and hold him all the time. There was a time il never forget when my DH had popped out and she said she was hungry and me- the mug- was trying to bend down to get plates etc and prepare lunch for her 5 days after a c-section whilst she held DS. Every time she came to stay subsequently she was the same- expecting hotel service and not understanding things had changed.

The last time I saw her was 4 months ago when she came to stay and everything exploded. In a nutshell, she had worked herself up into a rage- we didnt realise- because she wanted time alone with my DH and apparently she had told me this in the morning and we had agreed she could have this time alone with him (i do also find this slightly rude!) -I had totally forgot about this so rather than saying anything she had got really angry. Anyway, i was cooking and passed DS to DH. As I did so, she snatched DS out of my arms and stormed past me saying DS needed to sleep and DH was exhausted. I was fuming, DS started crying and DH sat there like a shell shock victim not knowing what to do. I stormed up after her and retrieved DS (I dont know what came over me but i was shaking in rage). She then stayed upstairs for about half an hour and DH took her out for a walk. On this walk she slagged me off and basically told him she wouldnt be coming to stay again as she found me stressful to be around, that I was a bad mother, a nasty person etc and tried to stir problems between my DH and I by saying I didnt seem to want to spend time with him..

Since she left we have had zero contact. My DH told her that she owed me an apology. She refused to apologise which infuriated me more, and made no contact. It is my DS birthday in a couple of weeks and she said she wanted to come up to see him on his birthday. We have told her we are having a family day but that she can visit around the time of his birthday. She then asked if she could stay at our house (she has no shame!!). My DH said he would speak to me.

When he got back to her and said no, and pointed out to her that she had previously said she couldnt bear to stay with us and would stay in a hotel for her next visit, she announced that she had already booked her train ticket. She then said she didnt have enough money to stay in hotel (rubbish) and said she would meet me for a coffee before staying at our house to 'sort things out' My DH pointed out that she was being a little naive by thinking all could be forgotten after a quick coffee...she also upset my DH by saying its hurting her that he is 'choosing me over her'. He told me last night that it feels unnatural to tell his mum she cant stay.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I doing the right thing? I have stuck to my guns and said she is welcome to come and see DS around his birthday and that I will meet up with her to talk but that she is not welcome to stay. I don't trust her and feel like she is someone that enjoys drama and creating problems and her demands on my DH's time are not conducive to a normal functional relationship. I don't hate anyone, but I think I might hate her.. I just have so much anger and resentment there that I don't know if I can get rid of... I know things cant go on like this but I cant bear her and dont know how to move forward...

Sorry for typos

Respect and civility are two words unknown to a narcissist. They basically treat all other people like dirt.

I would think longer term that she will threaten to do something like cut her son out of the will or act in some similar way to hurt him again out of pure spite.

I would also think OP that she will see your attempted boundary for future visits (i.e. she can visit you but has to stay in a hotel) will be seen by her as an attack.

He can maintain a relationship with his mother but that does not mean that you at all have to. I would also seriously consider keeping your child well away from her as well.

My mil buys I love my daddy clothes.

She also buys I love my mummy clothes. Not from the same set so I'm certain she goes looking. And that's the difference.

Your mil is vile and I think this could cost you your marriage. I would go nc with her but let her see ds as much as you are willing/able facilitated by DH. Dint speak to yet, about her, or have her in your home.

Tell him that you have to do this to protect yourself, because he won't. Had he chosen, he could have supported you to the point you and mil might be able to co exist. He chose not to.

Donate the pa clothes to the charity shop.

Best of luck.

I would also tell her that if she succeeds in breaking you up, she will see ds even less as you will go for full custody due to their emotional abuse. Keep records.

Do you all think I should try and focus on getting myself and DH back on track and just putting her out of my mind completely for the time being? It gets us nowhere talking about it- it almost always ends in an argument. The weird thing is I have anger towards him too over it all, and I'm worried to just bury that- but equally maybe it will fade with time.

^^

Yes definitely this. Concentrate on your relationship & put your MIL in the background where she belongs, she is in the outer circle of your family, whereas you are putting her firmly in the centre, the bullseye, the focus of your anger. You are giving her way too much head space, if you detach a bit you will get a bit more perspective. Please don't let this escalate.

Yes.

Keep Records

I would keep her at my arms' length and let your husband get on with it. If she wants to visit, she stays in a hotel. That's the only rule your husband needs to know. Other than that, HE can arrange for her to come as much or as little as he wants. HE can make sure she sees her GS regularly. All you have to do is be present and act as if she is just another background character in your life. I agree you are giving her too much with your anger. My MIL barely features in our lives, in the sense we are talking about a phone call every few days, a visit maybe once every couple of months where we stay for the weekend and I read my book. And I like my mother in law! She just isn't that big a part of everything, she doesn't need to be and she doesn't want to be. Make it about your little family and don't let this create barriers in your good relationship, it sounds like that's what your husband is trying to do now. I think this 1 on 1 time with her DS is a bit of an unusual request from a mother but really it makes little difference to you as long as you don't have to be there and it doesn't get in the way of your plans.

Oh happy, I really feel for you. I am really shocked your DH cannot understand that a mother who insists on a 2 week holiday alone with her married, adult son is frankly weird. Attila is spot on though - it's not you it's what you represent (you stole him). He could have married anyone and she would be like this.

He has let you down, maybe there is hope as he is saying he knows she is difficult, but he wants you to just forgive and forget. Unfortunately he can't see that this trouble you are now having is EXACTLY what she wants.

I think I would leave it a while, go NC with her and then try again (with him, not her) Maybe show him this thread?

Do you think your DH might agree to some councelling (when the dust has settled and you are hopefully able to discuss it calmly?

I really find the idea of MIL wanting time ALONE with DH quite strange. I thought about it - the only person I want lone weekends/holidays with is my DH and I would be reaaly upset if there was someone else saying that shouldn't happen....

So.... I think your MIL has cast her son in the role of husband.

I have read about this in the narc literature, my MIL shows some signs of this but I think your MIL is totally doing this.

Things she is doing that are appropriate in a DW-DH relationships but quite strange in a DM-DS relationships.

• 2 week long holiday breaks (often called romantic getaways, no?)
• Lots of relaxing alone time in the house, just (g!)mummy, daddy and the kids
• Little (couply) presents like "I love Daddy" tees (not odd as a one off but many?). I bet she gives your DH some strange presents like this too.
• Constant emotional support. Yes this should be constant between DH-DW. A bit more of a check in w DPs and DCs?
• In her fantasy DW-DH relationship she is probably (to her mind) quite outraged and frustrated that you OP keep interfering... Why does this random woman (Happy) think she can spend so much time with DH? How dare she interfere in my relationship....

It may be owrth asking your DH if he wants his son to grow up feeling physically ill when thinking of one of his parents?

I notice both you and DH get physically ill around this woman. This in itself shows she carries an unhealthy miasma around with her.

Your DH has been conditioned to a sort of slavery and he seems to want you to join him in the pit rather than let you help him climb out.

The more he sees his mother then more she will manipulate him. She will cast herself as his rescuer form his terrible marriage.

If your DH spent the night in a separate room then suggest couples counselling - on the condition he doesn't speak to his mother about it - it needs to be between you two only.

And your MIL will start on your son, so you would need to limit his contact.

How are you doing OP?

This is so sad, one of the saddest things I have read on here. You and your DC have done nothing wrong yet your MIL is trying to prise you and your DH apart.

Ideally you and your DH would be on the same page and see that the three members of your immediate family are the important thing. I seriously suggest counselling to work on the relationship with you and DH before the knife gets twisted in further, looks like she has already started on your DC.

Do you have a good friend IRL you can talk to? The MN'ers are clearly brilliant as all these supportive threads are showing but it's good to have an actual person to talk to as well.

I don't mean that she doesn't ignore you, I mean you are reacting to some of the wrong things. And in doing so you are going to hurt your Dh and take a position at the far end of a continuum which will make it harder for him to meet you.

Sending clothes to a grandchild that highlight the parent who is their own child is not "wiping you out". It really is entirely normal. Some grandparents won't do it, but plenty of lovely ones will. Never mentioning you in cards or letters is wiping you out. Having expectations of your DH that don't acknowledge your central position in his life is wiping you out. But the clothes aren't. I do realise that it all merges into a part of the whole issue, becasue all her actions are on oneside and there's nothing to balance them, but...

NancyDroop above talked about how she managed to get her husband to deal with his DM by claiming the middle ground and getting him to join her there. That's all I'm suggesting you should be trying for. When you see every action, even the normal ones, as signs of her unreasonableness, you make it next to impossible for your husband to see a good way forward. If you don't want to make it into a choice for him, you need to focus on the outrageous stuff so you can set decent boundaries together that he isn't going to feel bad about sticking with.

Happy - have pm'd you.

My cousin ended up divorcing primarily because of his MIL causing problems like this. He got to the point he couldn't take any more of her nasty comments and his wife not standing up to her. Luckily there weren't any children involved.

Indeed BoomBoom moving towards the middle ground completely shifted the situation for us.

I applied some of my professional rather than at home/emotional thinking to the problem and decided that rather than be reactive (as we most often are in relationships and that makes sense - someone says something and we react) and I became outcome oriented.

What was I trying to acheive?

• Stay married to my DH and have a nice family life
• Set boundaries for MIL (required for the above).

So I really tried to stop telling my DH how annoyed I was with MIL and instead just firmly suggested boundaries whilst with her compromising on things that didn' matter to me. I now try to have calm conversations with DH about it and together we are slowly winning battles. There are still tensions but it is sooooo much better.

It can happen but not while your DH is backed in to a corner. I bet he can't currently see a way through this and is just reacting emotionally.

I know how good it feels in the moment to vent to your DH about his DM's behaviour. But it doesn't have an end - nothing gets fixed like this.

Instead, get a clear focus on what you want to acheive and be disciplined. Know that your frustration with MIL won't go away at once but slowly you will win.

You can do this. You have SO MUCH going for you:

• You already have what she wants: DH and DS.
• Information and understanding about her behaviour and motivations
• A large MN support network with huge combined knowledge about these situations (Narc Ninjas!)
• Strength of character. You have already put your foot down a couple of times with her. Repeat!

So every time you have a MIL thought or conversation with DH or MIL, think: am I owning this? Is my response acheiving my goals? Try to stay off the emotional hook.

I used to have my MIL following me around all day, in my head. Now I have my head back and my DH on side. I work HARD not to get hooked with every interaction. It doesn't work every time but is sooo much better.

You'll get there. I'm here for you happy.

Nancydroop!!!! Reading this was so spooky:

Things she is doing that are appropriate in a DW-DH relationships but quite strange in a DM-DS relationships.

• 2 week long holiday breaks (often called romantic getaways, no?)
• Lots of relaxing alone time in the house, just (g!)mummy, daddy and the kids
• Little (couply) presents like "I love Daddy" tees (not odd as a one off but many?). I bet she gives your DH some strange presents like this too.
• Constant emotional support. Yes this should be constant between DH-DW. A bit more of a check in w DPs and DCs?
• In her fantasy DW-DH relationship she is probably (to her mind) quite outraged and frustrated that you OP keep interfering... Why does this random woman (Happy) think she can spend so much time with DH? How dare she interfere in my relationship....

That is bang on!! Quite fascinating how someone can fit a stereotype so accurately... Your comments have really helped.

Randomhusband I am quite private when it comes to discussing relationship problems with RL friends, but I do have a couple of RL friends to talk to-and my own family who are (thankfully) amazingly supportive in every way. And the mumsnet warriors of course!

Provemewrong that is the way forward I think. For now NC with her is the way it will go. And if one day I am forced to be in the same room as her I quite like the book idea (!)

And I will turn my attention to DH. I'm not going to force him out of the spare room, but I am going to stop talking about her to him and focus on our little family. He has two weeks off over Christmas so I am looking forward to us having some nice stress free time together.

Boomboom I will strive for this middle ground you and Nancydroop speak of.. it sounds like a calmer place.

Mamababa as satisfying as it would be to show him this thread, he would probably divorce me on the spot... he is such a private person he would absolutely freak out despite it being anon!!!

Nancy's posts are right on. You need to think of the long term victory rather than just the immediate battle. You know, win the battle but lose the war? She is trying to drive you apart. Don't help her.

Remember that in your DH's present frame of mind (as orchestrated over the years by MiL) you are the unreasonable one. She is 'just trying to make her son happy' and who can resist siding with someone who is doing that? She has had his whole life to program him. You have only had since you've been married. That's a whole lot of conditioning to overcome.

Stand down (from her) but stand your own ground as much as you can. Don't show your anger at her to your DH, just reinforce how her actions have 'hurt' you. Fight her with her own weapons. Hurt feelings and puzzlement at being misunderstood.

I really think counseling is a good idea! Try to put it to DH as neutrally as you can. Not that 'he needs to learn to deal with his mother and defend you'. If he insists that you are the one with the problem just say 'maybe, let's find out' and ask him to go with you. During a really bad time in my marriage I told my DH that we needed counseling or we were done. He was fully sure that when we went the counselor would tell me that I was 100% wrong and needed to shape up. The first few sessions the counselor remained neutral, then she lowered the boom. HE needed do the majority of the changing, not me. That I was reacting to HIS behaviour. It took a while, lots of work on both our parts, but we made it.

So much excellent advice. My knee jerk reaction after reading your post was to steam in and say yeah, remind him he's weak, tell him he's not supporting you. I have done this, and given my dp a full blown account of just how dysfunctional I think his family is, and particularly his dad who I went non contact with.

God it feels good at the time, but when the dust settles, you are left with those words hanging between you. Just as importantly, you are left with a raging hatred for the person who has brought you to this point. It occurred to me recently that although I was physically nc, the person involved was with me everyday - in my head. I've had to work really hard to let them go, to really allow myself the choice of not having them in my life. It's hard, but it's gradually working.

NancyDroop's post is so wise. Do you think that's a route you could take ? Sometimes even now I want to run away from my relationship. However I remind myself that my fil will really have cost me everything (his actions affected other people close to myself aswell). Your mil is winning at the moment. If your husband can't fight for you, you'll have to "fight" (but hopefully in a NancyDroop style) for yourself, as I did. It won't make your husband any less weak, and it doesn't stop the pain that he's not there for you. But you'll set the boundaries that you need and take it from there.

For what it's worth I don't think it was bad that you told him when you did that he was weak. This is all unchartered territory for you both, things will be said. Don't forget, you've got to put up with his mum's unacceptable behaviour to you and his reactions to you. He has a "loving" mum who no doubt just tells him how wonderful he is and how you are not (!) plus the occasional difficult conversation with you. You have a two-headed monster to fight !

Sounds good that you'll be having some time away from each other this weekend.

I agree with concentrating on you your husband and the kids and stop discussing her and giving her headspace. Make it clear to your husband that if he wants the marriage to work he has to do the same. His mum can find friends or look for a new man for emotional couple type time.
As the kids get older these issues will improve. Primary school age kids won't want to wear cutesie embarrassing tops and will decide for themselves where their allegiances lie, teenagers will probably see very little of her. She will probably be less keen on them when they start acting up and answering her back as well.

I can't fathom how two weeks away with her works. How much annual leave does he get?

And he goes without you and the LO? Away with his mum for 2 weeks????????????

How much leave time is left for your nuclear family?

Just a thought.. along the lines of nicenewdusters and nancydroop, do you think I should send a simple, straightforward email to her, just covering some of the things I would have said to her at the meeting if she had let me talk, about boundaries etc and then finish the email saying that as far as I am concerned we draw a line and move forward. (obviously I am playing the long game- I am well aware of what she really is, and will outline that unless anything changes it is best that she doesnt stay in the house) and then that may just end the drama and make her feel all is improved therefore making me look like i have made peace with it- and not displaying any anger anymore...

or do you think just leave it?

or an email is a good idea but say something different?

oh and thanks sooooo much all of you. The support on here has got me through the last few days. Im serious, it actually has.

There is no point happy, she doesn't care about your boundaries, your worries or anything to do with you.

She will push every boundary you set because she knows she will get away with it.

Don't waste your time.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Do not send her an e-mail because it will be used by her against you no matter how nicely worded it is. Solutions used in normally healthy families do not work on people who are both inherently unreasonable and as emotionally unhealthy as your MIL.

The only way forward for you is to completely disengage from her power games. Unfortunately for you your DH cannot and will not deal with her at all.

Boundaries to narcissists are seen by them as an attack on them, she will likely ignore any boundary you care to set her.