Toad's Solicitor phoned me at home unannounced after hours this evening

[Karenthetoadslayer]

I thought this would call for a new thread.

As I was preparing the children's dinner, the phone rang and guess who it was? Toad's solicitor, to have a chat about contact.

I am a friendly and polite person, also was in shock, so I complied and explained to him the children's views on their father.

DS thought I was 'cool'. .

You never know what will happen at the moment.

Also, he will have to prepay his Counsel. £££££s.

at the thought of a desperate wing-clipped Toad!

You need to focus on whatever is the cleanest break between you and him. Barrister won't serve Toad's bizarre interests to the extent that he/she appears preposterous in front of a judge.
Remember brief will likely has appeared before the judge before and likely to do so again so for example if Toad asks him to set out x settlement on the condition that Karen wears rainbow striped knickers until the DCs leave home, barrister won't do it as he/she will forever be known as the twit who tried to insist on rainbow knickers. Courts are like any other business and word soon gets round.
Also counsel usually have a nice way of inferring things to judge. I almost pissed myself laughing when ex's barrister phrased a particularly difficult point to the judge; my side had heard him shouting at ex because he was being a twat and wouldn't agree a particular point.
You need to prepare an absolute minimun and then leave a few gaps so that when it comes to the eventual negotiation you appear flexible when you come up with a small compromise.
It's chess or poker.
It might be worth asking your previous solicitor to be on hand to advise if you need it over the phone on the day.
As a litigant in person, the judge will treat you gently.

Do you know the minimum and maximum budget of what you need to buy a 3 bed in a location near their school, plus the costs of all legal and removal fees etc.? I suppose I'm thinking that is what you need to say - a budget of (say) £300k to include all expenses to purchase a 3 bed house of your choice mortgage free to be sold upon your youngest leaving full time education (can that be extended to 21 to cover her time at university if she goes)

This would give you be negotiation points

• the budget you need in £
• the age at which the sale of the property is triggered

Personally I don't think it's unreasonably that DC need housing whilst at uni because this gives them the option of studying locally or having a base to return to whilst on vacation.

I think the toady will have his eyes bulging in anger by the end of the hearing!!!!

In addition to other points:

I'd ask for more than I wanted, so you have room to "compromise".

Don't be upset when he makes his point talks out of his anuran arse, mentally picture it as words from a drunken fool.

Write out your answers point by point as he talks (or his counsel), then make your points carefully. If there are interruptions, wait and go back to the point calmly.

If you meet him without a judge, don't get bogged down by his drivel. If it looks unacceptable, or he uses it to further abuse you, then get up and walk out.

Agree with everything.

I am very clear in what my minimum requirements are, regarding a house etc. it is a very valid point that while Toad wants the children to remain in the UK he is only prepared to pay for their home until A-Levels. So, essentially they would be homeless after this. It is interesting that he is still paying full CM for his older DC who is in her early twenties.

If there has to be a mortgage on the house, I want my name on the house, so the DCs will not be homeless if Toad's business goes under. I am thinking of shared equity which in my opinion would be the best option.

Dunfightin I was wondering if Tiad's barrister would actually be making the points to the judge that Toad would 'reasonably ' only pay if I committed myself to let him 'pester, harass and threaten' me for the rest of my life, or to get a refund of the DCs don't want to see him. It remains to be seen how much of this nonsense will actually appear in his statement.

I don't think I'd go for shared equity, because it still ties you down with him, and still allows him access to the house.
It would work with a reasonable man.
He is abusive, so please don't accept any ownership by him of the house you live in.

Do take all evidence of his abuse in case you need to show why you want distance from the man.

Lweji I will make it clear that I will get up and walk out if he starts making any accusations or any personal comments. I fully expect him to be utterly vile. He keeps regurgitating various points from my FLA statements and insists that 'I made these up', which of course I have not, so, as soon as starts doing this, I am out of there and the next and last time he will see me is at court. I have done it before, I can do it again.

Last year, I was still so confused by his brainwashing, that I actually emailed my solicitor, if I was allowed to move the furniture. I was frightened he could just come and take my car. I was also scared when his solicitor produced a list of my outgoings that Toad reckoned was incorrect and produced a spreadsheet what my outgoings should be, but then everyone started laughing, because his spreadsheet was yet another proof for his financial control.

Court could be some performance.

Shared equity, as in a shared equity scheme is what I meant. He would not have any access, in any event.

I always have copies of the orders on me anyway. I will refer to my case of course.

This is going to be the last time I will have to deal with his fuckwittery.

(unlurks)

good luck. hoping you are well rid of the slimy git soon.

Do you mean you will get given a lump sum of equity that will never have to be paid back to him????

I do hope so!

I'm really wondering whether you're going to need to do anything in court but sit there and let this silly man shoot himself repeatedly in the foot.

Are you really ok with the plan that the day your youngest finishes A levels you're all homeless? again I think it's perfectly reasonable to talk about you and your children's rights to move on in your lives to a secure permanent home not under his control or in financial bondage to him.

No, Random he would get it back when the children are 18 or have finished their education. Or I could then buy him out, if I have the money.

I have to plan ahead, rumble - if he pays for my rent/housing for another ten years this will give me ten years to sort something out. But this is the worst case scenario.

Blackeyed Thank you. I am surprised that all of you have not given up on me yet.

No way Karen - I think there's loads of us lurking on here all dying to see Toad get his come-uppance in court

I'm just thinking shared ownership can be difficult to sell tbh

Ah I see the plan. That makes sense.

Given up? I'm permanently lost in admiration that you wade through all this garbage of his day in and day out and you keep on going. And parenting. And getting up in the morning. And you still have a sense of humour!

At 5:30am to be precise, rumble.

Thank you all.

Sense of humour, yes.

no, unfortunately.

I don't think I've posted on your thread before Karen, but wanted to add my support. Toad sounds like a right, ermm, character

What day are you scheduled for court?

A lot of the wheeling and dealing will be done between barristers before you go in and if Toad persuades his barrister to put some of the most outlandish proposals to the judge, be sure it will be done with raised eyebrows and a few code words to let the judge know that this is all BS.

Don't overcomplicate the settlement. Find out what a "normal" settlement would be in this kind of case and go for that.
Yes and do leave room for compromise. If there's a disagreement about something then judges tend to go for middle option i.e. you say £20,000; he says £10,000 you end up with £15,000.
PLease use meeting to listen to his proposals but don't offer anything yourself. Court is coming and that will be the best place for all this.

As a small adendum to any requests, ask for your cutlery back.

No kidding get the cutlery back!

It's bloody complicated already dunfightin - you do sound very experienced in such matters. . Re. outlandish proposals. I have just used your phrase to inform them to remove such requests from the settlement proposal that would not hold up in court, as not to waste any meeting time with discussing such nonsense.

At the moment we are just getting ready and sorting out the applications. No date yet, Plumpingup, thank you for your support.

Karen I too want to add heartfelt admiration of how well you are dealing with all of this. You are certainly doing the best for your DCs. I just hope that you'll get some some clarification from he justice system-- I can't believe how complicated things are for you and how long it's dragged on, when he's clearly abusive. And a Toad. for you. Hope meeting goes well.