Embarrassed to be posting AGAIN - I've been a fool

[yougotafriend]

So I had a thread in June/July about leaving my husband - I got loads of great advice on here, but allowed myself to be "talked down" AGAIN - an incident this weekend has made me realise that nothing is going to change unless I change it - but I'm so scared I'm making the wrong decision.

Background - "D"H has always been jealous/insecure/controlling, he was my first serious relationship so intially when he told me that it was my behaviour that was causing him to be like this (plus he was divorced after his previous W cheated on him) I justified and enabled him to continue.

I was always upset by the way he carried on but felt I could smooth the waters and "change" him by proving how much I loved him, but in reality the only person that changed was me.

We met in 1991, married in 1995 and had 2 DS (in 1996 & 1998) and it was probably not until 2000 when I decided to enrol on a counselling course that it finally hit me that I cannot change him and that it is his problem. We went through counselling together and him on his own, throughout all of it he totally admitted how unreasonable he was and said if the situation was reversed he'd have been off years ago!!

Promised to change and I loved him so wanted to give him that opportunity. I started to regain some of my old confidence back and doing things for myself, but with 2 young children there was never really enough time or money for me to do much.

Obviously many many incidents in the time between then and now - I've had my bags packed on 3 occasions - but each time I've fallen for the promises to change and "tried again", but each time a little part of my love for him has died - I have tried to explain that to him.

Anyway jump forward to now and I realise I have to be the one to make the decision - he is weak and never will no matter how bad things are. (And I don't believe he is happy either - he tortures himself with "what ifs" that makes it impossible for him to view any situation rationally). But what if in making it I am being selfish and I do riun my kids lives??? I want to go, but I can't even think about packing up and leaving without crying.

I have lots of support in RL, my family and firends have lived though all of our turmoil and no-one would judge me harshly for going - but I will judge myself....

You will only make the wrong mistake again if you allow yourself to be talked down again. Your children will be better off having a happy mum than an unhappy one, and one who wants to make sure they see what a decent relationship is so they don't make the wrong choices growing up.

You know what to do. You only need to judge yourself if you let your children down. Staying again would let them down.

Letting your children down would be to continue to give THIS as an example of what a happy and healthy marriage looks like.

Children need to see that their parents (or at least one) is a confident, self assured individual who will act on the basis of what is right for them. Not someone who sacrifices everything for others and leaves themselves a hollow shell.

Which would you prefer your children grow up to be like?

In the space of 8 short paragraphs you are already sabotaging yourself

Choose this life, or reject it. It's up to you.

Please don't be embarrassed about anything! I'm sorry that H is so consistent in his poor behaviour, awful attitudes and whatever else you haven't shared yet by way of these "incidents". How bad is it really?

Staying again would be a repeat of a repeat. It's already proved to be ineffective so the only thing to do is something new. Something definitive and conclusive. It's totally wrong to be judging yourself badly for anything. You have wonderful support plus MN. Do what needs to be done, yougotafriend

Thank you - you are all so right - especially the part about me sabotaging myself already!!

It's just so bloody hard.

I wish I had somewhere close I could go to easily (my Mum lives a half hour drive away so I wouldn't be able to see my kids) but I now have to start looking at rented accommodation which I have no experience of (went straight from my parental home to this one).

In the summer after we talked and agreed to try again (again) we said if it didn't work we would both admit defeat and hold our hands up and be fair and amicable with each other. But he has been far from amicable over the weekend, which now makes me question whether he will be fair financially. I don't mind renting in the short term, but I will want to buy and will need the equity from our house (we only have a 25% mortgage with 4 yrs left).

I will make an appointment with a solicitor asap to see where I stand if I go.

Hang on, woah! What do you mean 'see your kids'? Don't leave them.

Don't leave them, don't leave the house.

Tell him your relationship is over.

File for divorce, or tell him you are separating.

If he will not leave, then you AND YOUR CHILDREN leave, and if that happens then you need to get the house sold ASAP so you can get your assets together.

Why would you leave the children?

Make an appointment with your solicitor, yes.

If you leave without your children you will put yourself in limbo. Because it will be nigh on impossible, will take years, to get that house sold from under him. If you leave him with the kids, he's likely to be able to stay there until they are adult, with them, and simply pay you off then!

Are you primary carer right now?

do not leave your kids behind

I hope I've misunderstood you, but do not leave your children. Just don't.

I only know of one woman who left her children and let's just say that years later she has a lot to regret and a rubbish relationship with her grown up children.

My DS are 16 & 17 (nearly 18) they know the situation cannot carry on as it is, they know he will never leave.

I want to move somewhere close so they can come and go between both of us as and when they wish to

Have you spoken to a Solicitor at all OP?
I wouldn't be making any plans whatsoever without good legal advice.

If they're nearly adult it seems mad to buy another house big enough for all of you just because this idiot won't leave. Do the kids get on with him? Will they want to spend time with him post split?

I haven't seen a solicitor yet - this all only came to a head on Friday night - I want to get things moving quickly or he will assume it's all going to be as it has been in the past and settle down, but I don't want to make any rash decisions

"My DS are 16 & 17 (nearly 18) they know the situation cannot carry on as it is, they know he will never leave".

These abusive men always say that they will never leave but no man is above the law.

Do not leave these children behind ever because they will not thank you at all for doing that. You need to seek proper legal advice first and foremost before doing anything else along with setting the wheels properly in motion to divorcing him.

The kids do get on with him, they will want to spend time with him. My youngest in particular will feel sorry for him as he presents himself as the victim. They know that isn't true, but feel sorry for him all the same.

To get somewhere smaller would feel like I was telling them they weren't really welcome - and I'd love it if they wanted to be with me full time but I understand that all they have ever know is in that house so it's unlikely intially

It may well be that you will be able to stay in your current home. Seeking legal advice re your specific situation and asap is the priority here.

Personally I think it's far less important that he may think things have settled down again and top priority that you have trusted and sympathetic legal advice so that you can make fully informed decisions about your future.

Despite your DC ages, you will always be their mother and you run the risk of a potential stigma that you left them, in their eyes I mean.

You need to plan for the breakup of your marriage and the resolution of that, but also you need to consider your day to day future and your ongoing relationship with your sons.
Don't lose out for the sake of rushing it now.

MN's usual advice is to try more than one solicitor using the free half hour consultation process.

1st solicitor appointment booked for tomorrow - lets see what they say!!

tipsy Incidents include (but are not limited to):
. Not wanting me to go out with my friends
. Wanting to "vet" my friends into suitable and unsuitable categories
. Taking offense to me tlaking about work if male colleagues are mentioned
. Accusing me of flirting with anyone from the checkout guy in the supermarket to some random guy who might look at me from across the room on a night out (and almost everyone else in between)
. Making up stories about me and repeating them to others as fact (e.g. when we were first going out together I went to Scotland to meet up with a guy I knew from a previous girls holiday. This never happened!! I did go to scotland with a group of girls but the rest is fantasy)
. Telling me my clothes/behaviour is unsuitable
. Ignoring me - often for weeks at a time
. Not wanting me to discuss anything with anyone else (he internalises everything)
. Getting annoyed with me for acting like I don't "need" him but then refusing to get involved with any family/financial stuff so I have to do it all on my own

I could go on.........

Good start

Now you need to change your mindset :)

Don't walk away from it all, stay and fight for your home & your boys. Tell your solicitor this is what you want. Be honest about how your relationship has been. Your boys are still young, if you leave they will see it as you walking out on them,

I couldn't live like that, OP, and nor should you have to.

I really don't understand why you have to be the one leave.

My Mum did the leaving. We were younger, 11 and 13 but I don't think your boys would be as cool with this as you think they are. Even though they are older.

Also your DH seems unstable, when you leave how do you know that he won't shift this behaviour onto one or both your Sons?

I am the one who wants to end the marriage - I am a reasonable person so from a reasonable argument I should be the one to leave (although I do know that reason has very little to do with it).

Also, I cannot afford to live in our house without his income - he earns more than me so could - my thinking was that by letting him stay when he can afford the upkeep I would be protecting my investment long term.

However, after advice from the lovely people of MN and in RL, I'm not leaving, at least not yet. I have a solicitor appt for tomorrow and will hold off from making any plans until afterwards.

He's been so horrible this weekend that I frankly now don't trust him not to try and shaft me financially - even though he knows that I would always be reasonalbe with him regardless of the circumstances.

Somethime I think I'm too bloody reasonable for my own good!!

That is not a reasonable statement! You are the one who wants to leave because of his behaviour. He is at least equally, imo more, responsible for the split than you, therefore you are at least equally, imo more entitled to stay in the house.

Don't leave your boys with an arse. Yes, they will feel sorry for him when he moves out, but they will feel sorry for him if you move out AND they have to live with him.

Stop feeling guilty and find some fight in you. It is vital. I don't see how wanting to split up with him is your fault at all. Really his fault for being a poor husband. If he had treated you fairly you wouldn't be leaving. You shouldn't be the one to leave.

I think the important thing to fix in your head about reason OP is that if your H was behaving reasonably then you wouldn't want the marriage to end would you.

You need a fair and equitable settlement and so take all the advice and don't be in such a rush to finalise a divorce that you throw in the towel and think it doesn't matter.
Don't forget at 16 and almost 18 your DCs won't necessarily be spending much time in a family home, not in the great scheme of things. I'm not suggesting you encourage them out of their ears, but by the same token don't make decisions now that are awfully wrong within the next couple of years.