feelings on porn

[lollypop77]

Just wanted other peoples opinions on if they are ok with there partners/husbands watching porn regular ..do you get worried or wonder why they have the need to ??

But what about the poor Goats

Justtherightbullets
Hmm. Again you go to name calling and extremes. I don't see ANYONE here condoning the extremes or inappropriate access that allows minors to view it.

Out if interest what is the anti lobby's definition of porn?

"some women can't stand the thought of their partner watching porn because he's being turned on by another woman" - that's the very definition of jealousy, isn't it (justifiable or not). I don't get how I twisted your words.

I think the problem is if the porn is a becoming a choice over intimacy with a partner.

If they read lots of erotic stories would that be any different to watching the same thing played out on video?

I'm generally anti the "pro-porn lobby on Mumsnet" because they come across as either thick or misogynistic or both.

If they read lots of erotic stories would that be any different to watching the same thing played out on video?

Nah, exactly the same. No difference at all.

If they read lots of erotic stories would that be any different to watching the same thing played out on video?

Emm, yes.

I took the chance that was a serious albeit seriously naive question but wonder if anyone could be that clueless and uninformed.

I'm very curious about people challenging the "right" to watch porn. What about the "right" to read erotic literature? How would you feel if your DH told you that your reading material was a "deal breaker"?

Hmm, now let me think. Is there a real life woman in fiction?

Um, no. Because that is fiction. All made up. No real humans involved.

So no women being abused.

Not remotely connected to real women being raped and abused. How anyone can think erotic fiction and porn are the same thing is beyond me.

One is fantasy.

The other is reality.

Real, actual human beings. Being raped and abused. But still, you don't have the courage of your convictions to admit you like watching this

John FarleySRuskin
Naturally anyone who had different point of view to you must be thick and misogynistic. Of course that's the explanation to most of life's ills. You stick with that analysis.

If you are so intelligent could you please define porn?

Not at all, that's just how they come across when they come on to Mumsnet.

My definition of porn would be visual representation of sex created with the intention to arouse. That intentionality is difficult to define, but for me, I'm certainly not anti- all porn - (as I hope you wouldn't be pro-all porn.) because of course, there have been art works that you might call porn, or films, etc.

My concerns are about the powerful misogynistic porn industry that we have now, its widespread availability and the effect massive consumption of that kind of stuff has on society (especially women and kids, but yeah, men too.)

Do you have any concerns about it?

That's really helpful JFR and JTRB. So we are agreed that there are gradations and categories. You are both mainly concerned with the worst kinds of abusive or misogynistic porn. I share your distaste for that. Regarding "real people" some of that Japanese anime (sp? ?) stuff seems pretty dodgy but I guess it would be pretty difficult to legislate against an animation or still drawing.

'Clothes are essential, porn is not.' That doesn't quite work, because there is a reasonable distinction to be made between clothes/the fashion industry as there is between sex/the porn industry. People can choose to own only the bare minimum of clothing items and source these from charity shops and/or make their own, just as people can choose to have sex only with a longterm partner and never use any entertainment media purely for sexual gratification.
Also, someone mentioned upthread that many marriages are forced (sometimes forced upon girls of 10 or younger) - and certainly many marriages are hells of abuse, violence and coercive sex. But citing this as a reason to reject or condemn marriage tends to get people calling you a weirdo or a jealous old hag or whatever.

And there is ethical porn - currently a steadily-growing movement to produce sexually explicit, arousing visual media that is made with willing performers who are well paid and well treated. As with any industry that has depended for a long time on treating the majority of its workforce badly, the changeover to a better way of doing things is progressing slowly, with a lot of obstacles, but it is progressing. Producers of feminist/ethical/aimed-at-women porn are generally the ones who are first to get censored, busted, dumped by distributors, outed and shamed, because they are seen as a threat to the status quo in a way that the more 'mainstream' (lazy, indifferent, often misogynistic if not all as brutally exploitative as they are sometimes painted) porn companies are not.

And before someone comes wailing and bawling in to denounce me as 'dishonest' (as often happens on these threads) I will be upfront about the fact that I have worked in the porn/sex industry for years and still do. I've been a feminist for all those years, as well, and while I agree with some feminist criticisms of the current porn industry, I consider many of the non-feminist opponents of porn to be far more dangerous to women. In the USA, for instance (which is getting more frighteningly misogynistic by the day), a lot of those who denounce porn also denounce abortion, contraception and the use of vibrators, while peddling increasingly demented rape myths.

Thinking about it, I am happy to say I have never been "pro-porn" just realistic that given JFR's definition above (the visual representation of sex created with the intention to arouse) it would be pretty difficult to condemn anything and everything that falls into that definition - otherwise we'd be back to covering up Greek and Roman statues and destroying the carvings on ancient Hindu temples (as the Victorians did).

Given SGB's comments above, I am also happy to say that there are categories of porn that are entirely safe, not abusive to anyone, entirely legal and entirely capable of making life a little more fun.

This in no way diminishes the concerns about the excesses, extremes, abuse and illegality - all of which I abhor (as any sane person would).

I didn't mind it when it was video tapes, jazz mags & Soho sex shops. But now that it's everywhere, I think it's quite damaging to society. I've looked at soft porn & found it boring, but I think the violent / rape stuff is awful.

Now and again not bothered but like anything.....alcohol....drugs....work...if it interferes with your life then it's not on

Fairnuff, do please try to model your nickname
Your comment... "Real, actual human beings. Being raped and abused. But still, you don't have the courage of your convictions to admit you like watching this"

Actually I do not like watching this and never have. If you are so sure, then you should actually report such content to the police because it is illegal.

Nobody on this entire thread has condoned rape and abuse. But by constantly banging on that all porn MUST be rape and abuse - you actually diminish your argument and sound actually much worse than Mary Whitehouse used to.

I would guess that the vast majority of "occasional users" like me - seek out something that is legal, looks fun, friendly, joyful, even comical, celebrates the act of physical pleasure and can be turny-onny.

Do you ever feel like that Fairnuff? I hope you do. Go on.. Life is short. Live a little.

Go on.. Life is short. Live a little.

Your probably the third poster on this thread who've suggested posters 'have fun'...get porn watching.

It IS peculiar to me because I belong to a generation where 'have some fun, go on, live a little,' meant actually real-life shagging(!) fun, friendly, joyful, etc, and did not mean watching some people - (who may or may not have consented to this being on the internet, who may or may not have been abused, drug addict etc) - shag on a screen.

So, you know placidjoy, why don't you get out there, meet some women, maybe even lose your virginity, live a little...

JFR Let me count the judgements you've just made there.. that I am male, a virgin who doesn't get out and that I'm not getting any.

Actually none of the above are true. And my guess is you and I may be closer generationally than you seem to think.

Great that you would prefer the physical (real) act. In addition to this, many people also (hopefully occasionally) look or read about (hopefully pleasurable, hopefully legal, hopefully consensual) sexual activities that provide a bit of variety or allow them to enjoy themselves vicariously.

This has been going on long before tinterweb, long before photography. This is why I was interested in your definition. The word pornography is thought to originate from paid (hopefully consenting) writers writing erotic letters for Greek soldiers in ancient times.

Fine that it's not something that appeals to you and others personally.But I don't think that alone gives you the right to impose your personal preferences on others.

The points about consent, abuse, drug addiction, paedophilia, access by minors etc have been well made here (A LOT) and unanimously supported here (A LOT).

If you are aware of such specific content you should report it.

But I don't think that's what most ordinary people here are talking about here when they refer to a hopefully occasional use of legal and hopefully consensual depiction of physical acts.

just as a note, Im not sure that I'm pro porn. I certainly wouldnt be sorry if the whole industry packed up shop and went home. Given the reality of the out-of-control growth of the porn industry and the nasty stuff made, I'd be rather relieved. But equally I don't hold a grudge against ethically-made or viewing (in moderation) milder stuff, even if it's not my taste.

Guess I consider myself porn-neutral to the milder stuff. It was a bit of a suprise to see myself described as pro-porn!

I would definitely prefer to describe myself as "Porn Neutral" too.

Placid can you not see that JFR was turning your own judgemental, patronising language back at you?

Johnfarleysruskin - I am pretty impressed that you've made such clear points and have such a good argument. Forgive me, but I have been one of those assuming that most men are pro-porn, and having seen this thread I am not so sure anymore.

I can see how, as with any socially acceptable norm, porn is rated as something that the open minded partake in if it tickles their fancy.

I've always been uncomfortable with the portrayal of both sexes in porn because I can see the actors are damaged people. It is sad to see them glorify a lifestyle that promotes any act nobody would like to commit - or have done to them - in real life, but somehow get off on.

It's true porn is like a drug, the more you get the less it satisfies, so you need to take it to the next level. I believe that is why there is a higher demand and tolerance for more extreme and unpleasant stuff.

I was shocked by the Knox link. I feel sorry for that girl who comes across silly and giggly and very naive, and equally sorry for her parents if they ever get to see what their daughter has subjected herself to.

I've been in relationships where my partner has claimed the homemade stuff is ethical because it's for exhibitionists who wouldn't do it if they didn't get a rise from the experience. But now I'm not so sure if even that is true. It seems that even the most seemingly innocent(!) home made porn could be forced.

As a mother of son's I am concerned about what I will teach them in regard to porn and how it is not normal representation of either people's bodies or of the sex act. I would hate to think porn would be their teacher

So, once again, thanks and especially to those males who have given me a new hope that you're not all tarred with the same brush!

My God, I'm shocked that you are a woman. Really!

Most of us do know that the word porn can encompass many things, but that when we use the word nowadays, most of us are using it as short-hand to refer to films, clips etc, showing real/live people (usually) having sex. And it's the real/live people issue which is complicated.

I don't think people who don't regularly watch porn only have sex in the missionary position. I think that's a really odd attitude actually - not just you, you hear that sort of thing a lot. Have fun, watch porn. Er, I can't say I think of regular porn users as having better sex than anyone else.- IME this is not true.

I don't think you are porn-neutral at all if you are going around encouraging people to try it.

I'm not anti-porn; I'm just anti the porn industry we have now. I don't think it does women any favours.

Do you genuinely think the porn industry, and supporting/buying into it, is having a positive effect on society?