Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.

Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

I'm sure you already have, but I think it's really important to write down exactly what happened and especially your fears and feelings. And be sure the police and your solicitor understand that you were frightened and that anything you did or said was to get him away from you or so that he wouldn't harangue you. But I really don't think his solicitor will make a case of it because that would entail making a point of his breaching the order.

You bring up an interesting point about approaching strangers. There was a show on about women and sexual harassment. It was amazing the number of women who said that they would NOT approach strangers or make a scene to get an overly aggressive man away from themselves in a public place, like a club or bar. We really are indoctrinated to not be perceived as 'rude' or 'give offense'. So it's not just you, it's most of us. We need to speak up for ourselves!

Just remember; that was then, this is now. Just keep moving forward.

OP if the police do their job they will arrest him, at the very least they will give him a stern talking to. It's great that they're now aware that the PO has been remiss, and that your lawyer is onto it too.

What can his lawyers make of him not only breaching an injunction, but committing assault? Intimidating you, making you feel panicked and shaky, refusing to respect your requests to leave you alone, ignoring your tears, forcing unwanted kisses on you that you were too frightened to stop, making you so late to pick up your children you were coerced into get a cab with him.

If I were his lawyer, I'd say the less said about it the better.

I can't believe he would be so foolish to risk arrest a second time, but if it happens again call the police. That's what the non-mol is for. If for whatever reason you can't access your phone, go into a shop or pub and ask the staff to call the police for you. If you need to explain tell them he is breaking the law by breaching legal injunctions against him.

you completely did the right thing by reporting him. I am guessing because he has slowly, bit by bit, been emailing and contacting, he thought that he was home scott free and could do as he liked - a shame he hadnt been pulled up on the first email or text, but I am sure he will now and that should keep him away.

Of course he wants you to withdraw your petition and of course he wants it all to go away and you to come back - Im suspecting he is keeping up a false facade elsewhere and wants to save face. There are obviously quite alot of people who secretly know who and what he is, and an open thing like a divorce may just be enough for the gossips to start spilling his beans for him. But he is a fool if he thinks he can break court orders and not be pulled in by the short and curlies.

Everything he has done he has done in the full knowledge that it is wrong, but in the misguided believe that he is somehow so special that he is above the normal laws of both the land, and of morality, and somehow free to go about his business with no feeling for anyone else. The evidence he is building against himself is really providing enough rope to keep him permanently away from you for ever. The short term may be a mess but it promises a long term freedom

Also, you have previously stated that you don't want your H to get into trouble adorably. I don't know if that is factoring in your (understandable) distress at the whole incident of him ambushing you. All I would say is that you have done your best to protect him - thus far - from the consequences of his horrific behaviour. If he now gets into trouble, please do not allow it to add to your distress. You can't control his behaviour, and if he acts in a way which has consequences for him, so be it. You did not ask him to accost and assault you, and as lovely a person as you come across as, tough bloody luck on him personally I hope the police give that nasty bully the biggest fright of his life

Thanks for your posts. Don't know if it's that the reality of what happened has sunk in but I've felt horribly anxious and tearful all day. The children have been really lovely but it's been a long day.I've read all your posts, thanks very much, but I will leave answering for another day.

I hope you get some good rest tonight. Things always look better after a good night's sleep. Do something nice for yourself tomorrow, even if it's only a piece of chocolate or some flowers for your bedroom.

Just caught up with your updates; what an utter fuckwit he is! Don't please give yourself a hard time, you did nothing wrong, it was all him invading your space once again and only thinking of himself. for you x

Thinking of you OP, I hope you're ok.

Thank you all so much for the advice and support last week, and the good wishes. Much appreciated. I haven't had the energy to post. Shit time indeed but then it doesn't really seem to stop...

H is lying through his teeth (of course). Apparently he was there by chance. He is more or less saying I threw myself at him. He didn't grill me on anything at all or put his paws all over me. He talked to me because he saw I was upset. As if. As for the emails well nobody told him it was distressing and that he couldn't allude to getting back together etc. So creepy and childish. I've felt quite angry about this actually. The bare faced lies and how I have to deal with the shit consequences once more. Practical and emotional. My anxiety is through the roof. I've felt so anxious walking around by myself in the street and also in the evenings at home. It's ridiculous as he's probably away again but it's the not knowing and I can't seem to control it at all. He doesn't live that far from us, closer than where the placement is. I suppose I never thought it would happen there. I keep thinking maybe he's been in other places and just didn't approach me. It's also making some horrible memories come back. Awful sense of powerlessness and guilt.

And to think I saw him as law-abiding enough to respect an order or selfish enough not to want to endanger his job and lifestyle. Completely misjudged everything about him.

And no, nobody blamed me for what happened and how I didn't think on my feet at all. I felt quite weird being told it wasn't my fault. I'd been so scrupulous about following everything I'm asked to do to the letter as the solicitor says he's so difficult it's really important to be 'clean', it felt like a major failure.

I just feel he wants to ruin my life because I've dared ask for divorce without consulting him before. Ever positive solicitor says she wonders why he's hired solicitors at great expense at all as he is shooting himself in the foot right left and centre (probably over riding their advice) and won't know what's hit him at the hearing. I'm clinging on to that ... Desperately need something good to happen at the moment.

Listen to your solicitor. She knows whereof she speaks. His violating the order, his ambushing you (and no one is going to believe his Banbury Tale about you 'throwing yourself' at him, you have a no contact order, ffs!), his endless emails, and his expensive lawyers, none of that is going to impress Mr or Ms Justice in the least. Judges do NOT like to see anyone disregard a court order, to them it's the same as spitting in the eye of the law. Not good. To mis-quote a vulgarity from my childhood; In his own world he may be hot shit in a Champagne glass, but in the courtroom he'll be cold diarrhea in a Dixie cup. So chin up, my dear, things will move forward and you will be free and completely independent of him. And he will end up with his tail between his legs.

As far as your opinion of his, just remember from now on to think the worst of him, and you won't be disappointed!!

I know it's hard, but please try very hard not to let yourself be frightened of going out in public. It's not likely that he's hiding around the corner. You must not let him win like that. But even if he did pop out at you, you know now that it's OK to walk up to another person or walk into the nearest business and say 'This man is bothering me, may I use your phone to call the police?' or just turn to him and say loudly "Leave me alone, you aren't supposed to talk to me, I have a court order". He wants you to be afraid and he knows thinks that you'd never raise a public 'scene'. Well, we know differently now, don't we? Take your power back, even if you have to get others involved to do so. Walk out with confidence, knowing that you DO have the ability to get him away from you.

And you are right to follow the letter of the law, it will stand you in very good stead in court.

how long until the hearing?
Im glad you have a good solicitor behind you - she seems to totally get what she is playing with here, and you must listen to her advice.
As I said before, the more crap he pulls out now, the worse its going to look on him, and the quicker his defence of the divorce will be dismissed.
He is stupid enough to have left a trail, including a medical one. The evidence is piling up against him.

*opinion of HIM, not his.

Nettletea over a week. Case was dropped because not enough evidence, apparently. But yes trail is still there, I've said before I left my senses at the door when I married him but I think he's losing the plot now to be honest and is making some really stupid choices, stuff I would never have expected him to do. I think he can't bear not to be in charge. It was obvious last week when I think about it. Really obvious.

Across Yes, trying to control my anxiety but easier said than done; I feel super anxious going to placement tomorrow for instance. And after dropping kids off at school yesterday I suddenly felt overwhelmed by complete panic.
It's made many things more vivid again. I have told people about to the divorce but very very few know about the orders and maybe it would have helped me fight my corner more if I had told people. I'm not sure.
And yes solicitor is matter of fact and takes no shit.

Very true. It's hard to control anxiety. Do you think it would help to see the counselor about it? They may have some tools you could use to defuse your worries.

As far as telling people, you have to do what makes you feel comfortable. Perhaps there is one person you could confide in, someone who could 'have your back'?

You poor poor woman. Across has got it spot on as usual.

I have suffered from anxiety myself, and am all too aware how debilitating it can be. As Across and others have said please don't allow yourself to be cowed or frightened away from the vitally important things (like your placement) that you are building for yourself. When I was suffering terribly with anxiety, I found it helped a little to focus on the fact that I'd coped once with and could therefore cope again. In your case, the worst has already happened. Whilst you quite naturally don't want him to ambush you again, if he does, you are better equipped to cope, to call for help, and won't be so blindsided by it. It's not much I know, but knowing that you survived it, and are better placed to cope if there is a next time, may help manage the anxiety a bit.

Very very best of luck with the hearing. Your solicitor sounds great.

Really sorry to hear you suffered from anxiety notabeararaccoon, it's a terrible feeling. Never had anything like this in my life before.
The anxiety has crept on me really. It's not an overnight thing. But it's when I was putting things together for the divorce in the autumn I started getting panic attacks. I don't know whether it was the stress of not being found out or a reaction to what happened in summer. But they'd always come on when getting on a train, and not everyday. I've felt quite ill from them and I've had them everyday this week, as soon as I'm by myself.

He's not likely to do it again now. The pathetic excuses wouldn't wash at least I hope they wouldn't. I've tried telling myself that. But I don't think my brain is listening.
I went to the placement. It's just I think I've taken on more than I can deal with really.

Panic attacks are awful. Just horrible things to deal with. If you have one, try and breathe slowly (we hyperventilate when we panic, which makes you feel dizzy, which increases the panic...). Your body can only sustain a panic response for about 45 minutes before it exhausts its adrenalin supply. 45 minutes seems a horrific amount of time to cope with the feeling, but it can help to know that it is limited, and that we won't die from it. You may not feel like it, but you are already dealing really well with it, because you have carried on doing what seemed to trigger them, so somewhere deep down, you know you will survive it, and I promise, every time you cope, no matter how awful it feels, you are facing down that fear, which means you're winning. I think these things are often started when we're out of "immediate" danger, our bodies and minds carry us through the real danger ( for you, being in your marriage) and then, when we're in a place/state of relative safety, it's like the body heaves a huge sigh of relief and lets go.

Only you know what you can cope with, but for what it's worth, from behind a computer somewhere, I think you're doing astonishingly well, and coping admirably. You've said you have little RL support because you got married so young, your parents are being pretty awful and hugely unsupportive, your H is horrible, and has been trying to bully you, and yet your DCs seem happy and don't seem to have been too phased by the change in living arrangements, and you're managing a course and a placement. If you need to let go of something then do - there are no rules about what any of us have to do in life after all (bar behaving legally obviously!) - but don't beat yourself up about it, you're doing really well. I don't think I've seen one poster here or on your other thread who've been less than impressed at how you've coped with such dignity, and so little self pity. Remember, it's always darkest before the dawn!

Thanks a lot notabear - last GP appointment she suggested medication might be worth a try if no improvement but I am really reluctant.

Seeing it written down makes it look quite good but it's not that rosy at home. Not much choice with two young children but to carry on. So I get up in the morning. With H's schedules I'm pretty used to week time single motherhood anyway. What's changed with regards to that is how non stop it's been because I have no childcare and he doesn't see them much or at all at the mo'. Are the children happy? I don't know. Dc2 is pretty aggressive (hitting) at times which really pains me. Always was pretty spoilt by h who appeared besotted and I think is finding the change and in a sense abandonment very difficult but doesn't know how to verbalise it so takes it all out on me really. I get clinginess and aggressivity in turn. Needs a lot of reassurance but boundaries too. Apparently fine at school. Some days are very trying and I'm in tears after bedtime. It all adds up to everything else too as obviously I feel guilty at how much things have changed for them. They are lovely though, it's not their fault and I don't think I'm the best to be around sometimes when I'm so preoccupied. I mean half term was just the pits. They'd never watched so many films in their lives I don't think. I did do what posters suggested with calls, ie not push the DCs to call him. That really helped actually and took a huge pressure off. H complained to solicitor (one of many emails) but that's died down.

Re: self-pity - I used to be quite happy and pretty optimistic but whenever I re-read some posts I did after being upset, I do think how self-pitying they sound. Anyway, don't feel I can complain because I'm very aware I had quite a privileged life in many ways and logically if he doesn't squander/hide all the assets the outcome - if we eventually get there -is not something I would dare complain about financially. Had he been in a lower paid job, financially abusive or there all the time I really don't think I could have done what I did at all. So no I don't think I have the right to complain because some women are so much worse off. Financially now is really crap because after too much mucking about with money have had to go for interim spousal which is not resolved yet so pretty much living off savings and some benefits. He pays minimum he can get away with for the children too. As for dignity, I'm not sure how much I have left to be honest as pretty much all the boundaries have been crossed as far as I am concerned. But I have no desire to destroy him at all, I'm not interested in tit for tat. A solicitor is a good buffer against that anyway. I just want him to leave me be. End of, really.

The last month has been particularly crap and has really made me question the marriage and H's behaviour and brought a whole new load of trauma with it really and last week was the last straw. I find the way he seems unable to let go and uses the children very stressful too. I've got to know better a lovely divorced mum and a couple of her friends but their divorces were for complete different reasons, some acrimonious some not and they freely talk about it. So We chat and it helps with some stuff and they are really lovely but I feel totally unable to tell them what happened, it's like there's this barrier between me and others. I feel very ashamed that my husband did all these things to me. I know everyone on here says not to but it's really difficult to shake that off.

I'm probably putting pressure on myself re: course/placement. I see it as a way of not relying on H's money eventually. If I gave up now I would have wasted a whole year for nothing. It's what I really wanted too. And there's a part of me towards H that thinks: right you think I can't do this, I'm going to prove you wrong. Though he would probably find a way to use it against me. In any case, whenever employment is discussed I start wondering how on earth I would be able to hold down even a part-time job with the constant appointments. They'd have to be pretty impossibly understanding employers to put up with that, I imagine.

Do you think part of his not seeing them often is to make you feel the pressure of single parenthood? To make you 'crack' and beg him for 'time off' so he can use it against you? Or beg him to come back because you 'can't cope'? Or do you think, looking back on his fathering patterns when at home, that this is just the way he is as a father?

It's natural that DDs will be upset and a little frightened. But they'll get used to the 'new normal' after time. Remember that you are DD2's 'soft place to land'. She's taking it out on you because she feels 'safe' to do so. Not that you don't need to set boundaries, but just remember that she's doing this because she knows you won't 'leave', not because she's angry with you. Continue to let them lead you as far as contact goes. And listen to your solicitors. If they tell you that it would be better to pursue contact, then do so. Otherwise, continue as you are.

As far as self-pity, you are absolutely entitled to feel sorry for yourself as long as you don't wallow and not progress! Yes, there are always those who are worse (or better) off than we are, but that doesn't mean we can't be sad for things we go through. You have NEVER complained of 'foolish things'. Yes, you are fortunate that your financial situation is not as dire as someone else's. But I've never seen you complain about not being able to buy diamonds or filet mignon! You worry about the same things as any newly separated person would. How will I pay the bills and will my children and I be happy in this new life. That crosses all economic lines. A 'privileged' life is not free from pain anymore than a 'humble' one is. The main thing is that we acknowledge and respect each others pain.

There is no reason why you have to share the specifics with your new friends. You (if you want to) can simply state that your husband was abusive to you but that it's 'too new' to speak of it. As women with their own 'situations', I doubt they would pry. They may very well have 'little secrets' that they haven't shared, too. You just never know. People's lives are like spheres, we only see the side they choose to show us, not the entire thing. It may be that later you will feel more like sharing with one or more of them, or maybe not. It IS very new, you know, the acknowledgements you have had to make to yourself.

I think it important that you continue your course. It's the one thing you do for YOU and will make you more self-sufficient in the future. As far as future employment, let that be for tomorrow. Just concentrate on the task at hand, finishing. One hurdle at a time, love. And remember that eventually things will calm down a bit and new routines will be established enabling you to figure out when and how you will work.

Across - I've racked my brain over that. I'm pretty worried there will be a backlash at some point because it's weird. I hadn't really envisaged he could be trying to teach me a lesson by wearing me out looking after them.

His initial reaction was to threaten to seek sole residency on the ground of my mental state so I've been quite shocked/relieved he's done the opposite really. Perhaps has been told it was a no go. But I have to be very careful that everything is documented. I now have a file of emails and keep a diary with dates and times he sees and phones them or they phone him.

Re: his fathering patterns
I used to see him as as involved as he could be considering his job. He def wanted to be a father. Before we got married he'd agreed to wait a bit because I felt too young to have a baby. But as soon as we were married he started going on about his age and not being an old dad. His parenting was mostly weekend/holiday parenting. He did look after them quite well really. And seemed to really care about them. It was chaos at times but he seemed to enjoy it. He seemed devastated when we had quite a big health fright for dc1 last year, as in genuinely caring and scared about it. He used to call pretty much everyday. He did pat himself on the back a bit easily for stuff that I do everyday but I never thought anything of it. And he did use the fact that he'd looked after them in the day as a way of guiltying me into sex though, it was like I did this for you, now it's your turn. He'd use anything to do that anyway so not sure it's relevant.

I'm quite shocked he's able to withdraw from the children like this. I could never do that. It would absolutely kill me.

One factor I thought was: He's very very resentful I went to the police, he sees it as complete betrayal and me lying to him. He thinks it was a private matter. That's meant that (like me) he's had to have dealings with social services, rearrange his work around that some weeks I imagine and I'm sure he hates that too, and the very idea of someone questioning him really. None of their business kind of thing. Maybe he thinks the less he has to do with the children the less likely he has to be involved with agencies?

Also I wouldn't be surprised if he just can't be bothered with all the practical stuff of sorting food, organising nannies etc. We used to have quite a busy social life at weekends. All the childcare logistics was down to me. I do think his drinking had slowly become worse, which was not ok for me really, but ok because I'd be up in the morning so he didn't really have to deal with small children. I reckon he thinks it's easier to have them daytime so he can get up to whatever he wants without being accountable.

To wear you out or 'break you'. The problem with that (for him) is that, whereas HE can't cope with them without help (you and/or nannies), you CAN cope! Of course all mothers get 'frazzled' at times, but we somehow manage to adjust to 'the new normal'. You're doing it very well!

Oh, I'm sure he really loves his DC. And I'm sure he was a good caretaker dad in fits and starts. But I'm also sure that during those times there was always someone there for a quick hand-off if he got bored or they got fussy. It's easy to have patience amid the chaos if you know there is someone to 'take over' when you've had enough!

Naturally he thinks what happened should have been kept between the two of you. He considers it within the range of 'normal' in a marital relationship. Certainly nothing for the police to be involved with! In his mind, if YOU were 'bothered' (because I'm sure he wasn't) by what happened, it should have been able to have been solved with a bunch of roses and a nice piece of jewelry. But you know differently and did the right thing.

It may be that he doesn't want to be 'bothered' organizing nannies, etc. But I'm also sure his solicitors have probably told him that it doesn't look 'the best' for him to say how much he wants have his children with him and then turn them over to nannies whilst they're there, iyswim.

Hit enter too soon. So it's probably easier for him to just say that you're making it 'difficult' for him to see them. A judge will see right through that!

Adorably - you're doing well. Am usually a lurker but thought you should hear that.

Agree with CruCru. I think you are beyond doubt, Adorably, one of the most dignified people I have ever read about on MN. I am so impressed by how you are coping with all of this. All the very best to you and your children.

Also very impressed with the way you deal with everything and seem such a considered person. I never post but would love to be your friend in RL. Your children are very lucky to have you. Across is totally correct about your youngest, I would think. I see a very happy, bright future for you once you have got through the divorce. Not at all easy getting though that but ultimately sure it will be 100% worth it.