Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.

Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

As far as going over the 'good times', remember that in even the most rotten apple there are still a few good bites. There's nothing wrong with remembering that there were some good times as long as you are looking at the overall picture. AND that it doesn't drag you down emotionally.

As far as the summer hols, unless you can get an iron clad, legally enforceable agreement that he will NOT turn up uninvited (under penalty of police removal and citation) I think I'd forego it. Especially if it's out of the country as who knows what the 'rules' would be there. He's just not trustworthy enough IMO to take that risk in a foreign country. It has nothing to do with you or you being brave or standing up to him. It has to do with him being untrustworthy. Sometimes it's just not worth the risk.

Yes, I think you do need to form new friendships. Or perhaps there may be old friends that you no longer see? If so, you maybe surprised if you contact them. Often old friends fade away when they see 'truths' about our marriages that we aren't ready to see. I had a very, very good friend who tried to talk to me during my first marriage. She then faded away when I wouldn't listen. I recontacted her and it was like she had just been sitting there waiting for me.

Thank you Across. I hadn't lived here for long enough to have established friendships by the time I met H. It's really nice you found your friend again.

Thinking about the good bits isn't helpful. It makes me feel quite upset and confused to say the least.

The house idea is probably a crazy one. I'm just in a bit of a pickle over summer because:

• H, who won't produce a form E and is making things very difficult, has been quite insistently in touch via solicitors (with additional emails to me) about one thing, holidays. Not just dates but demanding to know where. He says he wants the children to stay a minimum of 2 weeks with him.
• my mother is not happy that we're not going to visit for the Easter holiday (can't afford to) and is really hassling me over the summer ones because every year we used to go and stay. Parents won't come to visit us because they say it was my choice to leave my country. So they pile on the pressure for me to visit. I think it would be a really bad idea for me to stay with them. I don't feel strong enough to put up with their comments and judging. Sending the children by themselves is not something I want to do either, because I don't really trust my mother not to criticise me in front of them and also I'm not sure how she would discipline them when I'm out of the picture. If it's like it was with me, then no.

So I was trying to see if I could take the children away for a bit over summer. Flights to the house are not too expensive at the moment and altogether it would be a much better holiday than anything I can afford in this country (my aunt is adamant she wants to give me some money towards a holiday). Thinking about it I realised I was worried H would get angry if I said I was going to go there by myself, although in theory it's also mine. I suppose that's what I meant by non-confrontation. And safety-wise it's probably not a good idea anyway.

When I picked up the children my mother in law reiterated she really wanted to see them more often and could I have a word with H about that. As if I have any input on how long he chooses to have them. Very weird.

You can always make arrangements with MiL to see the children independent of her son if you want to, that is. She can come for tea or for an afternoon with the children if that is something you're comfortable with. It's not down to you to 'have a word' with him. Do you think he's discouraging her from seeing them?

Definitely NO on seeing your parents. A simple 'I cannot afford it and I don't want to discuss it or hear about it'.

Maybe a 'staycation' this year? A week of 'children's choice' activities in your local area? Each child picks an activity on a certain day whether it's a day at the movies or a meal of junk food or a drive to the sea for supper then home. We had to do that during the 'lean times' when we couldn't afford a 'real' holiday and those were some of our most fun memories. Or maybe a weekend away instead of a whole week? As far as H goes, he can tell you when he wants the children. When and where you're going on holiday is none of his business.

New times call for new traditions.

Adorably, I am delurking to say that I think you have been nothing short of amazing throughout this entire ordeal. Reading about your husband makes my skin crawl, he is an unbelievably revolting man.

I know that emotionally you have a great deal to shoulder at the moment, but I wonder if it might be time to completely disengage from your mother as well now. She has never and does not now have your best interests at heart. It goes a long way towards explaining why you put up with such awful treatment from your husband for do long. You have been indoctrinated since you we're small with the notion that you do not deserve any better.

Her stance that you chose to leave the country so she won't visit you is so ridiculous. Just change it around on her. "mother dearest, you choose not to come to visit me so you won't be seeing the children." She is not a good influence on your DC and you are right, she will be feeding them poison about you.

Please keep taking strength from the wise women on this board. You are up against so much at the moment, and please do keep sourcing as much outside support as you can. Rape Crisis is a good place to start and I hope you can find someone experienced in the sort of abuse you have endured since childhood to help you unravel it all and find yourself again.

Sod your mum OP. She's treated you abominably all your life and even now, in the midst of divorce from an appalling man, she still tortures you.
I hold her largely responsible for your ending up in a relationship with an abusive man.

You have far more patience than I would in your position, if it were me she would have lost the right to see her GC a long time ago. It won't do them any harm not to see their granny one summer. If she can't be arsed to get on a plane to visit her family, it's her loss.

I absolutely agree that going anywhere near your holiday home is sadly too risky.

When I was a child we were very spoilt in that we went to France or Italy for a month's holiday every summer. The year that we had a holiday in England was a novelty and a treat and I loved it. You could go somewhere beautiful in Devon or Cornwall with great beaches and cream teas. Alternatively, you could take a short hop through the Channel Tunnel and go somewhere like Le Touquet in Normandy - sunny beaches, great patisseries and lots of children. In summary, if you didn't get to go abroad this year it would be no loss whatsoever to your children.

As regards your MIL, she clearly does not realise that you have no input into your ex's behaviour. She clearly does not realise that he is choosing not to take his full allowance with his children. I think highly likely that he has lied outright to her and told her that you are restricting his access.

Personally I would reiterate to her that you have no control over his behaviour, that he is choosing to have less contact with his children than he is allotted, and you wish he would take more. Furthermore that she rather than you is more likely to be able to influence him to spend more time with them, as he takes no notice of anything you say. It might be possible to organise the children to go to her during the spare contact time he doesn't want.

Across I try to shelter myself by not engaging and only doing what he asks for contact. He said he was away and his mother would have them all of 'his' weekend and would liaise with me about times. That's what happened.

At drop off she said she wished she could see them more, so I explained what the current arrangement was and she needed to talk to him about it. I started crying as I explained, which wasn't good and she said she would speak to him. Then when I went to pick up she said the same, so I repeated. She was very nice but my feeling was like you say Twinklestein, that she thought I wasn't letting H have the children. She kept nodding and saying 'oh right' as I explained. I tried to put the ball in her court because everyone has their own agenda here and i feel caught in the middle. Every single contact (however short) has led to emails from H. No doubt something will be on its way to my solicitor to criticise these conversations.

I admit after half term being so awful it did me good to have a break this weekend but I think it would backfire if I organised for the DCs to see her on 'my' weekends or for her to visit us. H is also washing his hands of a lot of things and I really don't need to feel responsible for his mum's unhappiness over not seeing her grandchildren.

dollius thank you - you're completely right. My sense of self-worth is not very good at all. I always think if I don't attain perfection (whatever that is) then I'm not good enough. I'm like that with too many things. I can see it on my course/placement. If something is not completely round and perfect, I just think it's mediocre and not worth mentioning when actually other people look at the work and think it's fine. My home life definitely didn't help that and H knew exactly how to tap into that for his own benefit and it's probably made me even worse than before.

I don't feel able to do no contact. I've thought about it, it must take a lot of strength to do it with parents.

Yes the kids won't mind if they don't go so far or have short weekends. I don't even know really what I will be doing then or where we will be with the divorce. Course will be finished and I guess the ideal situation is that I have a job, not a holiday, but not sure how likely that is...

She was very nice but my feeling was like you say Twinklestein, that she thought I wasn't letting H have the children

Obviously that's what he's told her.

I can't remember what other posters suggested but I wasn't suggesting she should see the children on your own time. If doesn't take his full allotment of time and MIL wants to have them instead - would that be workable?

twinklestein sorry, that bit was more for Across who said maybe his mother could come and visit the children when they're with me if I agreed or that I could have my own arrangements with her if I wanted (unless I didn't understand right?). I'm just saying I don't think that would be a good idea as I think it would backfire somehow.

Yes, H could choose to take them to his mother. It's not a long drive but someone has to take them back to me the next day and he doesn't want to or somehow hasn't done it yet. I really have no idea what is going on between H and his mother. I also think she needs to talk to him not to me. Before she used to talk to me about visits if he was away but now it's different. Maybe it's difficult for her but it is for me too, and I don't really need that on top of everything else.

Also at Christmas he phoned from her house to try and talk to me and since then I feel quite wary because I doubt he has told her the full story. I want to be friendly but I feel I need to be careful to protect myself.

I didn't think it was particularly directed at me.

I totally agree you need to protect yourself. And it's quite possible that if she came to your house regularly he might pitch up with her one day.

I would make it clear to her that she's welcome to see them on his allotted weekends, even if he chooses not to take his full allowance of time. If she wants to negotiate with him that's up to her. There's very little you can do.

Thanks, twinklestein. I will leave it now. I didn't want to have in-depth conversation in front of kids and felt a bit put on the spot to be honest. I've explained. She can ask him now.

Of course. I didn't think of it that way. You are right, time with his mother should be during his time, not yours, and he should arrange it for when the children are with him. And it's up to her to sort it out with him, she shouldn't put you in the middle. You explained what was what so now she knows that you aren't 'keeping the children from him' you are 'abiding by the legal agreement'. If course he's going to spin it his way, but that's not your problem. And you are perfectly right to avoid unnecessary interactions with him.

I expect that if she's been used to talking to you about seeing the children in the past when he's been gone, perhaps it was just an 'old habit' to talk to you now. But habits can (and should) be broken.

Never feel bad about crying. You were upset and I think his mother needed to know you were upset. Hopefully it will impress on her that this is something you do NOT want to talk about with her.

H was outside the building of my work placement when I left this evening. To talk he said. In breach of non-mol. I felt so shaky and panicky when I saw him he completely took control. Didn't physically hurt me as such but it feels like I've pretty much undone everything I've worked for over the past few months.

Not expecting anything from typing this - just feel really shaken up. Have spoken to police and emailed my solicitor to report what's happened. Had met her earlier in the week about hearing and felt a bit reassured. So worried about what's going to happen now. There'd been emails but I never ever expected him to do this...

Oh Adorably, de lurking to say - what a complete and utter bastard. I hope the police take action. This is just a temporary set back, don't let him undo all your progress.

What an arsehole.

You haven't undone everything at all, it's a step back but you will recover and be the stronger for it.

I'm surprised he hasn't tried it before now given his general MO.

His taking control was only a temporary thing, so don't panic, it was only possible because you were so overwhelmed at his unexpected appearance, and not at all surprising given his treatment of you. Which is entirely how he intended it to be.

You will overcome all of this.

A breach of a non-mol is an arrestable offence, so he was very foolish, and it's not going to make him look good.

Thanks both. He knows he could get arrested, he told me, but I don't think he cares or thinks he can't get out of it. I kept telling him to leave me because it was doing no good to anything or anyone but he wasn't listening.

You did absolutely the right thing by telling him to leave you. If he pulls this selfish, stupid stunt again pull out your phone and tell him to walk away or you will call the police to report him for stalking and haressement while on a non mol order. And it's no coincidence it was outside your work place. After all, if you become independant and confident he won't have any chance to control you will he? And that is what this is all about.

Well, I'm not surprised. Not necessarily about the specifics, just not surprised that he 'ambushed' you in some way. I agree that he probably 'targeted' the location to make you uneasy or afraid of returning. To make you feel 'unsafe' at your workplace. Don't let that happen.

I don't think you've 'undone' anything. After all, you're still home, alone and safe. The fact that you may have shown him fear, tears, or confusion isn't undoing anything. You told him to leave you. You told him talking wouldn't do any good. That's not undoing anything. As a matter of fact, I think it rather reinforces your position.

You did right to let the police and your solicitor know. Now, let them handle it. I don't think he try it again will since he didn't accomplish what he wanted this time. You didn't crumple and take him back. And even if he isn't arrested, I'm sure he WILL hear about it, either from the police or via his solicitors (boy, are they going to just love him!!). Now, all you need to do is formulate a plan just in case he does try it again. Think of a phrase to repeat over and over. Feck's on the right track; "Leave me alone and walk away NOW or I will phone the police". Then you pull out your phone and do it.

This is just another bump in the road. You survived it. You will continue to survive and thrive. Each time you get over these bumps you're just that much stronger and that much more sure you are doing the right thing.

Thanks. Sorry I probably didn't explain right. I ended up talking to him because I couldn't get rid of him and I didn't do the right thing as in I felt too embarrassed to shout at him to leave me and I also didn't call police there and then. I was trying to get to the station so I could pick up the children from their friends' house but I was late for that. There's more but I don't have time to write now. It's all to do with the hearing I think.

That's ok, that you talked to him. In a way it doesn't matter what he said, or you said. This was his opening salvo. To get back in your head, stop blaming yourself. You did not waylay him outside his place of work did you? I'm guessing he was Mr Reasonable, or Mr grief stricken and apologetic. But the fact remains that just like all the other times he abused you, he is not listening to what you want - to be left alone - he is doing what HE wants.
All we are saying is be prepared for next time. Take care of yourself.

Also note from your last post, he - again - made you do what he wanted, forced you to talk to him for fear of the consequences, by making you worried about embarrassment in a public place. Just like on the beach - if I remember right?

Either way, it's OK. Nothing truly bad happened, nothing 'permanent'. You didn't back-pedal, but even if you did, you can ignore anything you said as you were under extreme duress. If he got you to agree to anything during this incident, you are absolutely, unequivocally entitled to change your mind with no explanation other than 'you ambushed me'. As Feck says, it was just reverting to type for him. And since he ambushed you, it's no wonder you may have wobbled. Frankly, with my ingrained fear of 'causing scenes' in public (a #1 no-no growing up) I'm sure I would have done the same! I probably would have agreed to donating a kidney just to get him away from me.

Don't worry about what was 'the right thing' to do. You did what you did to survive his ambush. You told your solicitor and the police. That was the 'right thing'. I'm sure there won't be a next time, but if there is, you'll handle it differently.

Please don't castigate yourself. YOU did nothing 'wrong'. He did. He violated a court order and worse yet, he frightened and bullied a defenseless woman in public. A woman he supposedly 'loves'.

Some good advice here adorably, I would only add, please try to make clear to the police just how frightened and threatened you felt as a result of this behaviour. You've previously alluded to the fact that some people have thought you're too 'cool' and 'unfazed' when you've reported previous behaviours of your H. As pp have said, this is your survival mechanisms kicking in, but as you've said the new PO seems less approachable, please make sure they are clear on how this behaviour made you feel so you get the support you need, rather than something halfhearted.

As the v wise across said, you've done nothing wrong. You were just ambushed by a man who you have, rightly, learned to fear. Let the police and legal people help you ensure he can't do it again.

Thank you all for being reassuring.

I'm worried because he's defending the divorce and there's a hearing soonish. He wanted me to withdraw the petition, but I think he's trying to make it look like we are still together, or at least that I'm breaking his orders for him, if that makes sense.

MagicDragon no I didn't waylay him - he knows when and where the placement is. It was very easy to do. He was Mr Reasonable and caring, let's not do this to ourselves, you're clearly not happy (he brought up me crying in front of his mother last week), I'm not happy, I will do anything you want to make this work. When I told him he was breaking the order and shouldn't, he just said he was doing it for me/us.

I didn't agree to anything. I can't remember how many times I told him to leave me alone but it was many. He wanted me to go for a drink with him. I refused and kept walking, but he kept talking at me and in the end I thought maybe if I talked to him he would leave me alone and I agreed to sit outside to talk.
I'm worried how he/his lawyers might use this because I talked to him, I was crying and he tried to kiss me, I said no but then I let him. I also got in a cab with him because I was running so late to pick up the children it was the only way to not be even later and by then that's all I was worried about. Once more I suppose I'm just kicking myself for not standing up to him and stopping him. He was so smug and 'proprietorial' in that cab it makes me feel sick. He tried to get me to agree to ring him this weekend.

Generally the timing of all this is really shit. I have already lots of stressful stuff to deal with. I was also a mess when I picked up the kids, dc1 'knew' it was because of their dad and that really freaked me out. I have a presentation to give next week and I don't want to screw that up. I had to pack off the children to someone this morning at the last minute so I could give a statement to police.

On the plus side, the police (not the new PO) were very nice and helpful. I showed them the emails I've been getting and which I had all forwarded to PO and they seemed shocked he hadn't been pulled up for that already. I'd mentioned it to solicitor this week and she was going to look into it as she also wasn't happy that I was essentially being told to get on with it. They said he'd breached the order but that it was also assault and they said he was likely to be arrested. Haven't heard anything since. I've felt completely weird and flat all day. Taking the kids out this afternoon and watching other people wondering whether their lives are as upside down as mine or whether they really are as normal and happy as they look...

Thanks again for being so kind. Oh and Across scenes in public is not me at all. As we walked past people outside a pub I did think now could I just go up to someone and ask them to help me because my h who I was divorcing is here with me and I don't know how to get rid of him etc etc but then thought they would take one look at him and think I was nuts.