Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.

Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

Switch on 2-step verification for e-mail. If someone gets access to your email they can get access to everything.

AHatAHat on iPhone? My email comes on the Mail app. No passwords. I need to have another look clearly. And sorry to be thick but what do you mean by 'access everything' do you mean contacts and what's on iCloud, or something more extensive? I have another email that I use for online buying, MN PMs etc and for that I go to Safari and use password. Surely that can't be accessed through my Apple ID?

ptumbi not entirely sure how things are going to pan out to be honest. Some of the stuff especially regarding the children and contact is just surreal, really. I won't list everything on here but he is laying it on REALLY thick and says they should live with him. I haven't read all the emails either as it's sheer madness but stresses me out. Solicitor is fed up with him because she says it's just words and abuse and he's not actually responding to anything he is being asked so far.

The calls were on the house phone. I left the old-fashioned set off the hook after the 3rd time.

I think someone as domineering as he is really isn't able to 'uninvolve' himself. He HAS to be 'in control' or give that impression. If his emails are abusive,irrational, or 'bossy', that's going to work in your favour, IMO. The same for violating the court order and cc'ing you. Many 'high-powered' people just don't seem to realize that the rules (or court orders) DO apply to them! But judges are just as 'high powered' and they don't like having their edicts countermanded!! Again, just rely on your solicitors to handle things. They will know how to handle him.

The fact that he's gotten a new solicitor is interesting. That's probably because his original one 'fired' him for being unreasonable, or he fired the solicitor because he/she wouldn't do exactly what he wanted.

His threats and comments about you being 'unfit' are, of course, ridiculous. But you know, considering his mind set, he probably actually does believe you are 'not fit'. Because, after all, anyone who would divorce him (The Duke of Perfection that he is!) must be crazy!! And as far as petitioning for them to live with him, here that is par for the course. Both parties petition for full custody and then work from there.

Just remember that you are doing the right thing. And that any 'odd' things are probably an attempt to either intimidate you or gaslight you. Tighten your internet security as much as you can (I'm not real techy, either). It may be that your solicitor has someone who can help you. In this day and age, a legal firm would be wise to have an IT expert on staff or retainer. Or contact Apple Support.

Hopefully those late night calls were a one off. We actually had similar a few years ago. It was obviously a call centre as we could hear them in the background, but no one ever said anything.

We no longer have a 'house phone', just our cell phones. That's getting real common over here.

considering how little day to day input he has had with his dc seeing as he works away 99% of the time....he's completely deluded to think he has any chance of even getting 50/50....and how exactly does his 'busy' life make him more suitable than you to look after them? he's just throwing anything he can at you.

re your computer/accounts etc.....i would change ALL the passwords and have a security sweep done on the tablet/laptop/computer - he strikes me as the sort of person who would install a software program that logs all youir passwords and keystrokes so he can spy on what you've been doing online.

there is NO coincidence re the silent calls and loging into your account. it's HIM. and you will probably get more of them. i hope you've logged those details with your solicitor? if you speak to your phone company they may be able to set up a trace.

he is laying it on REALLY thick - of course he is. He is a control freak, and an abusive one at that. He can't beleive that you have had the gall to stand up to him, and he is throwing accusations and demands and tantrums in all directions.

Don't bother listening to them - send everything to your solicitor, who is very used to dealing with shits like him. He does not rule the world and has absolutely no power to demand the dc 'stay with him' - ludicrous!

Sugar mentions a key-logger - I'm a bit paranoid about internet security and I would def either get someone to check your computer, or buy a new laptop/tablet and use that.

Bloody hell ... Google checked keyloggers just now. Looks like they could be installed remotely or through apps from the couple of websites I've looked at. (Is that right?) I thought you needed to physically have the device with you to do that. I never made the leap between password and something sinister like that. Is it even legal? I will check the Apple website later more thoroughly to get a bit more clued up and look at the password thing again first.

I doubt very much he could install a keylogger himself. I've realised to my horror in the last week I'd trusted him way too much but this isn't an area I would expect him to do something as he uses technology but has no real interest or knowledge and loses patience quite quickly if it doesn't work. I probably need to consider it though just in case?

I've left the phone off the hook in the night since it happened so I wouldn't know if there had been more calls. If it's him being weird he might get bored. I sleep very little as it is, the last thing I need is to be woken up when I've finally fallen asleep.

Aiai a keylogger can only be installed remotely if you unwittingly download an app or click on a link in an email - the latter is how it's normally done. It can be done on your phone too. Has he sent you any links via emails?

If you had an Apple ID password that he'd have to have been able to guess, I would think that would be more likely. But if it was something he could never have guessed - then you may have a problem.

I think if he had a keystroke logger installed he would have had a headstart on the divorce proceedings. For your own peace of mind you could either reset factory settings, which will remove what you want as well as what you don't want. Or you could take all phones and devices to a tech team to have them cleaned. If they find anything, tell your solicitor and send him the bill.

Adorably, I know this must be a tough time for you. I hope it helps you to be told that he is following a time honoured script and his behaviour is entirely predictable. Please believe in yourself, you are fit to look after your children, he never talked about psych assessments before did he? If he had any concerns he would have raised them before you served him with divorce papers. Stand firm, you are stronger than him.

Reporting the nuisance calls to your provider is an excellent idea, if you can trace them to him it will give you more power and teach him that he can't push you around without facing the consequences.

Thank you all very much for the info and support. ptumbi your 13.06 post made me laugh.

I think he could easily work out the password. It was a strong password digits capitals and all but an obvious one for him to work out if he wanted.

And well he used to tell me my presence kept him sane, not sure if it counts Flimflammer I know I can look after the children, it's the idea of maybe having to go through more hoops when I have done nothing wrong that fills me with dread. But I'm letting the solicitor handle it because otherwise I get really upset and stressed and it's useless. I can't do my work and it's really important I finish it, on time too. I have an email account just for him now and I didn't read all his emails to the solicitor. I try really hard and for contact too, I don't want to fall into the trap of fretting over will he? won't he see them? The DCs seem resigned to the fact he won't see them - terribly sad but it's made that a little easier (until the next drama).

i think it's usually better for the dc to assume he won't see them - then it's a surprise when he does!
Adorably - don't worry about him 'deciding' that you are not fit to look after your own children; if he really thought that, he would never have left you with them day-in, day-out, for weeks at a time, and whilst one of them was ill (in hospital? I seem to remember - didn't he go off on a jolly? Apols if that was another bastard 'D'H ) But anyway, any court/reasonable person would see that he is just mud-slinging, and there is no basis in fact. Ignore. Every 'dumped' H uses it. Even Prince Charles used it against Diana - she's mad. Mental. Unstable.

Hi all I'm so upset. the children came back from a day visit to their dad earlier. All good it seemed. Then DC2 said something like 'daddy says he can't see us very much because it makes him too sad'. (Maybe not exact words but like that) I was like 'oh right, does he? Shall we go and have dinner now?' And changed the subject. Then DC2 carried on 'yes, he says it makes him very sad because we look so much like you it reminds him of you and makes him very very sad' I said to them yes it was a sad time for everyone and that it was because him and I could no longer live together, but that it wasn't their fault at all. We were still looking after them, just separately, and that yes they looked Iike me but they also looked like him so they mustn't worry. Then dc2 was in bed and dc1 asked why it was H was not allowed to come to the house. I said I hadn't decided that and that when people didn't get on it was better to live separately.

He's been talking to them, hasn't he? Am I being too sensitive about the comment about them looking like me? I feel really upset about it, like he's absolving himself of any responsibility. Like it's my fault and even worse their fault. I find it really horrible. I don't know, I feel really worried how they must feel to hear that. Should I have said something else? I'm trying not to criticise but I'm not sure my replies are good enough really. It's pointless saying anything to anyone isn't it?

ptumbi he did go on a jolly in autumn but no-one was ill then. Dc1 had a health scare in summer and h was actually pretty good about that.

And so phase two begins. Realizing that he can't 'get' to you through his usual methods, he will now try to take a new route, through your children. You're going to have to grow a thick skin, I'm afraid. Remember that he thinks he can make you look 'unbalanced'. Don't give him any ammunition! And do NOT call or email him about this.

Yes, he's talking to them alright. And you must write it all down, later when the DC are asleep or you are alone, for your solicitor. It's very important that he/she know if he starts trying to influence the DC or upset them to get a reaction out of you.

I think you did very well. You have to be as neutral as possible about him whilst still not allowing him to blame or 'down' you to the DC. Just reassure them that you both love them, but that sometimes mummies and daddies just can't live together and it makes them both sad. But that after a while the mummies and daddies start to be happy again, just like you and their daddy will be happy again soon. Because it is better that you don't live together anymore.

Don't start explaining specific things to them, even if they ask. Because you can be sure that he will be pumping them for information. And if they come home with 'TMI' ideas or questions about the two of you that he's put in their heads, don't be afraid to tell them that there are adult things and kid things. And that what is going on between you and their father is an adult thing. That all they need to know is you love them and you are doing the best thing for all of them.

It sounds like these conversations upset you, but were the children upset?

Could you suggest family therapy sessions (NOT with you both present at the same time) where the children can discuss their feelings and a qualified professional could give him the benefit of their opinion on parents who say this kind of thing to their children.

I would say dc2 wasn't upset. It was more relaying something and correcting me in a way. Since missing out on one visit because of being ill I've had a few 'daddy doesn't want to see us' from dc2, or 'why can't daddy see us. And dc2 also refused twice to talk to him on the phone when I got them to call him, on the ground of he didn't want me, I don't want to talk him. Has the memory of an elephant and is quite feisty which I think is a good thing. I talked to DC as I didn't want that to continue really. But to the question why can't daddy see us, I always say he is busy, he can't. By telling me he was sad (not busy) I think DC was kind of informing me that there was another reason for him not seeing them. I think DC2 had taken it at face value.

Dc1 said nothing at all then and asked me the other question later. Knowing dc1 I think there might be more questions bubbling underneath the surface. Dc1 is older and I think is querying on some level the absolute NC going on between H and I.

Across I've used the adult line before but yesterday I was taken by surprise really. (And I think they saw that). He is the least soppy person I know so for him to go and say that is just complete rubbish. At 50 I would have thought he would know better than say something so awful to a small child, especially his own! He'd used a similar tack when he went for a weekend away in autumn - told the children it was because of my course placement they were not able to go. But here it's not so much about me as about them as individuals, and on something they can't even change.

On some level I refuse to let this break me, and I do that by switching off the emotions as much as possible when there are people around, even the children. I also don't want to criticise him and I wanted them to see him (I don't think it would be good for them not to and also I read somewhere children start idealising the absent parent). But I wonder if the combination of all that is making me appear really cold and clinical about the whole thing to the children. I've cried in front of them, but not much, and in a way do a breezy routine when it comes to him/handover. I feel like shit underneath and then get panic attacks and all sorts when they're not about but it's like I'm frightened to show them I'm weak in a way, because I think they need to feel safe. I don't know maybe I'm completely overthinking everything ...

Flimflammer it might be an idea. They had never reported anything like this before. It's the first time so maybe I need to see if it happens again? I'm a bit worried about making a big thing of it, but then the risk is to brush it under the carpet. WA had mentioned a group for children but I wasn't sure about it at the time.

Oh sorry I see the therapy session would be with him and the children and then with me and the children. I doubt he'd agree to it if I suggested it ... Flimflammer I think he would say that we shouldn't divorce to avoid upsetting the children.

So he's trying motional blackmail. He tells the dc that he doesn't want to see them because they look like you - oh that makes me soooo angry! He is an adult, he shuold be able to differentiate between his wise and his children! And he should refrain from that sort of remark - was he expecting his own dc to comfort him over that?

I think he would say that we shouldn't divorce to avoid upsetting the children. - no, he should not be upsetting the children by taking shots at you (and he knows that that sort of remark will get back to you, that's why he did it and even if it didn't, he is blaming the dc for his sadness, because they look like you...). A decent parent will do everything in his/her power to avoid hurting or blaming the other parent, in front of the dc. The dc don't need to be involved in the strife between you and him.

Def write it down - I think it is emotional blackmail and further controlling abuse.

I know he is trying to just make himself look good in this. He is choosing to see them a day instead of two at the weekend. It's his choice, he doesn't want them more than that. I know why, but they don't and I can't really tell them their dad is choosing to have his Saturday to himself. In earlier emails to the solicitor he said he wanted to have them as much as possible to stay with him every single weekend, and holidays, ie more than what's currently agreed. But it's not true. Even the agreed time he doesn't keep to. He has had them 10-5, really, one weekend day, every two weeks. It worries me that they come back having heard this crap (and that's all I know about) after only that little time spent with him.

It feels like he's making them pay for my decision, and I can't live with that really. I don't know ... I think maybe I made a huge mistake and should have stayed because at least they wouldn't have to be used in that way, and be made to feel like there's something from with them.

I meant

made to feel like there's something wrong with them

But it's not true. Even the agreed time he doesn't keep to. He has had them 10-5, really, one weekend day, every two weeks. It worries me that they come back having heard this crap (and that's all I know about) after only that little time spent with him.

I don't want to nag you but I'd repeat the comments from above about making a note of this in any diary you keep. Contemporaneous dated records can be worth their weight in gold.

Nooooooo!!!!

That's why he's doing it. Unscrupulous, isn't he?

He is showing them what kind of father he is. One who doesn't much want to spend time with them and doesn't put their feelings first. Children aren't stupid, they talk among themselves about their home life and your children will compare what their friends talk about with how he behaves and make up their own minds. You know he is not a good man so stop being surprised when stuff like this happens. He isnt the father you want for your children, isnt that part of the reason for the divorce?Just be the loving parent who IS there for them and who they can rely on. Repeat to them that he is upset by the split but its for the best, and he will adjust in time.

Don't feel guilty, you sound like you are a lovely,caring mother to them. You have done the right thing and everything he's done since the split reinforces that.

And please please please do not slip into thinking you should have stayed to avoid his shitty behaviour towards his children. That should tell you you've done exactly the right thing. He treated you appallingly, and he's now showing that he is prepared to treat his children appallingly if it gets him what he wants. Who's to say that his abuse wouldn't have turned on the DCs eventually anyway?

It would be nice to think that he really did want them as much as you did, and that they can go on to have a lovely relationship together, but that is down to HIS effort rather than yours. You cannot make him be a good dad any more than you could make him be a good husband. Many women fall into the trap (and I did myself for several years, until pulled up short by a solicitor well versed in DV) of falling overthemselves to facilitate a relationship between the absent father and his children. Maybe because they think its for the benefit of the children, or maybe from some misplaced guilt about splitting up the family, but it is all wrong. Its just another way for him to fuck you over and control you.
His behaviour caused the marriage to fail.
Its HIS responsibility to maintain a decent, respectful, healthy relationship with his children. If he doesnt, he will lose out. After a while the kids just wont really care. Its sad. But its better for them in the long run than dragging it out for years. And they have you as a constant, and a much stronger and happier you than they would have had if you had stayed. Setting an example of how to be respected.

As to replying to 'why', the standard 'I dont know' will work. You may know but there is no need to put that on them. But you dont need to make excuses for him either.

should have stayed because at least they wouldn't have to be used in that way, - No no no - you should stay away, shield them from this and protect yourself.
There are ways of protecting dc from this - a solicitor should be informed of his manipulations; it will help you in the access/contact row. He doesn't care about them, other than as a means to hurt you - if he continues to do that, he will have to face not seeing them at all. He doesn;t deserve to. And it's not up to you to force a relationship between them. Hard for the dc and very hurtful - but it is better in the long run than them being torn and twisted by him.

I suppose I despair because despite having them just for the day at least this time there was no messing around with time/place for handovers. I thought that was progress. Except there wasn't. And yes I'm probably naive to have thought he would keep them out it. There's something totally ludicrous about him saying what he did too, I don't know, it's just so not him, so so obviously phoney. And I do worry about how it might damage the kids and today it makes me think that maybe I don't want them near him, which is completely not what I wanted initially.

I agree kids compare. I think dc1 might be doing just that. DC has a friend whose mum is divorced but the parents are on speaking terms, well at least no orders. And I wonder whether that's why he doesn't get why his dad and I don't speak on the phone or whether handovers are done the way they are.

nauticant yes I keep a diary/list thanks and am in touch with solicitor weekly depending on what it is.