Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.

Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

Just spent the whole day reading through this thread in stages and wanted to say how well I think you've done. Credit to you for standing up for yourself and your DC. Your STBXH sounds like a right royal dick & quite the pathetic father (why did he want a third one?). Good luck with the hearing, will keep an eye out for updates! Hope 2015 brings you the start of your new & happy life!

Acrossthepond yes it was awful and so tricky to deal with. I now have to ask myself: when things like this happen, do I try to make it better (and is it better?) for the DCs by asking for contact on another (unplanned) day and bear the brunt of an email suggesting I am doing this to get time off or do I leave it?

I think H may well have realised it's a lot more work that he thought. I mean he works very hard and travels so much but he also gets things done by everyone, and at home it meant me mostly and at the weekend I guess it was very much 'Monsieur is back so everything is ready for him'. I didn't begrudge it at all, but I think it means he's lost touch with mundane stuff like what the DCs like to eat etc ... Not my problem really but dc1 naively commented on a few things last week, which was quite funny really!

Yes, female counsellor is what I would prefer. That was just an assessment. I had seen someone very briefly privately in July but more about assertiveness and confidence. I might get in touch with her and see what she thinks. I also have a name and place for someone who does both private and NHS work (not in my area but feasible in terms of going there, given by a very kind MNetter in July too) so I was just asking to see if a referral there or to something similar in my area was possible as I thought there would be more continuity if it was done like this. But I think my logic wasn't quite the same as that of the person I saw. I don't know ... It's all a bit tricky, I get a bit confused too between counsellor/psychologist. There seems to be an overlap but not always and different qualifications. I think I also have different needs that may require different people.

Your assessor sounds like an idiot.

You should definitely request a female counsellor, and you can even ask for a female assessor if you want. It can also be done over the phone if you would feel more comfortable. The interruption and the mobile call is totally unprofessional.

I think it would be sensible to go back to the GP, you can discuss the possibility of PTSD and needing help with the consequences of sexual trauma. She may recommend that you have one off assessment with a psychiatrist (given the possibility of PTSD) and they will then refer you to a psychotherapist.

You leave it. If he wants more contact, let him make that move. The less contact you have with him for any reason, the better. If he wants the children, he'll let you know.

I'm sure he has lost touch with household-y things, many 'high-powered' men do. My sister's husband also never had a hand in the household chores, although he is an excellent father and very considerate husband. I doubt he even knows how to run the dishwasher or the washing machine. But if something had happened to my sister, he would have learned and fast! He understands that he is lucky to have her but he would be more than willing to take over if need be. Your H will just have learn, won't he? He gets no sympathy from me!

Choosing a counselor isn't 'one size fits all'. More like finding 'that perfect dress'. My DH and I saw 3 before we found the 'right fit' for us. I'm NOT suggesting joint counseling for you by any means, your situation is very different. Just that you may have to try more than one before you find the right one for you. The main thing is your ability to be honest and speak your truth, including the abuse you suffered at his hands. A counselor with experience with trauma as well as emotional abuse.

I don't know about the UK, but here a psychologist has a PhD in psychology, a counselor has a Master's Degree usually in counseling, social work, or psychology plus serving an internship under a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist.

In the UK counsellors generally have the least training. Clinical psychologists, psychotherapists and psychoanalysts have different types of training. (Psychoanalysts not really relevant here)

Re the DC, your H is an arse...just make sure you record all of this and give it to your solicitor, so that when there are discussions about their care it's very clear that he doesn't have the first idea how to be with them

This. A thousand times this. Every time you have any interaction with him that is a bit off, have a habit of making a record. It only needs to be a handful of sentences to serve as an aide-mémoire and to have a specific date, and also possibly time.

I think you should have a brief story to tell people explaining why you have had to end the marriage (if you want to say anything). Something like "he was abusive to me over a long period of time but it is too distressing for me to go into any details".

Thank you all.
Twinklestein I think in my country counsellors and psychologists are all called psychologists though they work in different settings and have different trainings. I'll go back to the GP and see what she says. It's likely to be slow so I think I need to try other routes. So far I haven't had the panic attacks while looking after the kids but I am petrified it might happen, or that I might faint on the train one day.

I probably need a big sign saying 'Ignore, make a note, don't respond' or something like that in the house. I know it, it's just putting it in action, especially with the children involved, is not always easy. Thanks for reminding me.

You should be eligible for 12 sessions of NHS CBT which should be arrangeable in the near future. Although it depends how efficient your GP practice is. It might tide you over for the time being.

You sound so much more positive it your latest posts, it is lovely to see you posting about what you are doing to get what you want.

We all approach contact differently and when I first split with sons dad I facilitated as much contact as poss, lots of it initiated by me. Over several years it dawned on me I was carrying the burden of responsibility for contact, so I gradually stepped back(after a year I started making him pay the train fare which I had been stumping up, then told him he had to come to our son not the other way round, stopped making arrangements for contact). He was of the attitude that contact was only when it was convenient,not a commitment. I got to the point where I neither obstructed or encouraged contact because I thought their relationship should be based on the reality of his dads character. They haven't spoken for years now and judging by what sons older brother(and other relatives) say , my son can see that he is better off without the stress of dealing with him. I'm sure you want your children to have the father they deserve, but you know already that he only has a veneer of that man and underneath he has a lot of problems. He isn't the father you wish he was, unfortunately. He's shown you that within a month of the split when most dads would grab any contact with their child, and you'd have thought he would be trying to show you his good side!

When my ex let our son down, I would have something great in reserve and say well that's a pity but it means we could do this(yay,more crazygolf).

Yes feeling more positive Flimflammer. It definitely helped getting back to a routine and having to focus on school, course, etc, as well as clarifying things with a solicitor who has been very helpful so far, and seems confident. I felt quite isolated after Christmas really and too much stuff was such a headfuck. Aunt coming tomorrow for a week or so which is really good.

I definitely think I'm currently treating contact as my responsibility. The guilt I feel over initiating the process doesn't help. Nor does the fact that I still think in 'wife mode' in many ways when it comes to contact. Even without being divorced the lifestyle that comes with his job/travel means that keeping a close relationship between everyone required work. I think I'm quite conscious of that, maybe too much so in a way I feel I should make allowances because of this, because I know he was worried about not seeing the kids then or feeling out of his depth when dealing with them sometimes, coming home from a long stretch away. All in all I worry that the less he sees them the less he will want to because he will feel more and more out of touch with it all. After the email I received last month suggesting I wasn't really fit to look after the children I was just expecting him to try and see them a lot more. Actually writing this down, I realise it's still about him, isn't it? Arrrghh...
I probably need to go with the flow more and stop worrying as it's only been a month anyway. Thanks for sharing the way you did things, it makes complete sense.

It's really good to read that you're adjusting and feel that you do have support available. Also, you seem to be aware the certain lines of thought are unheathly and are now seeing them as possible traps.

Just keep in mind that you are not to blame for any of this and were forced to take steps to protect your physical and mental health and to act in the interests of your children. No child would benefit from being raised in a household of one parent having to endure abuse.

Hello petal, not caught up on here in ages, just wanted to pop in and send love to you and your lovely girls. Take care and sounds like you're doing great; definitely see the GP again and get someone decent for some therapy. Hugs xx

It is very early days, and you are still under his influence. The effects of years of being worn down won't be corrected overnight. When you feel any guilt at all over the split, can you gently remind yourself that you wouldn't have done any of this if he had not behaved in such a way that left you no choice but to leave. Picture yourself carrying a heavy box,the guilt you feel, and when you feel guilty,hand the box over to him in your minds eye. He is the one who chose to be abusive in his marriage and divorce is the consequence of that.

Re the contact, I do think you should let it find its own level, if he doesn't want to spend time with his children they will have a miserable time if visits are forced. If you are able to maintain contact with his family and can send the children to spend time with them, that is better than spending time with an angry father.

Finally, it doesn't last forever. The issue of contact/ overnight is really only in parents hands until they are teenagers. At that age they can start to say what they want, activities and parties and going out with friends can get in the way of set contact times. When I was going through awful times with the ex it really took over my life and I couldn't sleep or stop worrying, and it felt like this was going to go on for the rest of my life and it was really distressing. It will pass, and you will get your life on the path that you want.

Just remember that for now, for a little while, you're on a merry-go-round of up and down and round and round. Things will happen, you will react, and the thing will be resolved. Just like the hoopla with the papers in the cabinet. It was a big emergency, he HAD to get in the house to get them. You pushed back with other suggestions/delaying tactics, he stopped trying that trick. Eventually, he will learn what you will tolerate and what you won't and he will stop trying his stupid tricks and 'strategies'. Well, he will for the most part, I'm sure. But as your 'pushing back' works you will become even more strong and fearless.

Your 'wife thinking' is very normal. After all, that's what you've been doing for quite a few years now. I'd imagine it's the same with all people who were once part of a couple, whether they're divorced, widowed, or just 'broken up'. It's a shift you are making slowly, but you are making that shift.

Hopefully, things are going smoothly now as your hearing approaches. Just follow the advice of your solicitors and, hopefully, you've found a good counselor to help you deal with the things you need to deal with.

Hi adorably - how are you? You said you have your aunt staying with you - How's it been?

Thanks ptumbi I am still here just having a tough time since orders were renewed I'm afraid. My lovely aunt has gone now. I'll try and update later.

Good to see you post. Sorry you're having a tough time, but remember, it's always darkest just before the dawn.

Take care of yourself, adorably.

i hope your aunt was of some help to you Adorably. Did you manage to tell her any of the situation?

It was really good to have my aunt with me but no she doesn't know all. Such a shame she lives so far. She's really like a mum should be - at least in my opinion. She's quite angry about what I've told her. I wish I'd talked to her earlier when I had doubts instead of keeping all to myself out of embarrassment and hope it would get better.

It also really helped to have her around when H started firing off his angry emails to my solicitor (all cced to me) when orders were confirmed. Somebody else's perspective on the situation and a shoulder to cry on, which I haven't got much of. Although she didn't doubt what I'd told her she was really shocked at the difference between the respectable/true gent persona she's seen and the way he comes across in those 2 emails I showed her.

He is not going to cooperate with anything at all, I don't think, and has quite an aggressive attitude at the moment. It's really scary as I can see costs just spiralling out of complete control.

I've also found out about stuff he's apparently been up to I had no idea about. And there's been a couple of weird incidents since the hearing that have creeped me out - access to one of my online accounts (not bank) using my password and silent calls one night. That's all in the space of a week really. A drama of some kind every day nearly. Maybe the darkness before dawn you're talking about Acrossthepond

I'm already not feeling the strongest so it's very much one day (hour even) at a time just now, autopilot mode, as feeling quite floored, disgusted beyond anything, ashamed, upset, annoyed, slightly hysterical, panicky, frightened about the future and wondering how on earth I managed to fall in love marry him and have children with him really. Sorry ... I hate all this self-pitying, I try so hard every day to do something constructive with my day and then, bang, phone call, email and I get completely side-tracked as there's sth new to deal with. I suppose I should be grateful we have a roof over our heads and that he can no longer lay his hands on me really.

Chicken, you have been conditioned and conditioned and conditioned to think you are wrong. It is one of the hardest things in the world to stand up and say 'no, you are wrong for treating me like this'. You are amazing. You have done sooooo well. Keep on honey, keep on. You have been amazingly good at keeping your kids out of this, you are scrupulous about dc vs ds or dd(so no one can identify you or even get a clue, quite rightly), but please please imagine (speaking as a daughter of a nasty sexist ass 'd'f) children do know. As above you've been scrupulous about not saying but if you have dds, how on earth would you feel if they were raped? If you have dss, how much of a failure would you feel if they raped someone? You are teaching your children by example that some types of behaviour aren't acceptable and you should feel bloody proud of that! You are telling your kids that they don't have to accept that behaviour so don't ever feel guilty. You should be proud.

I'm glad she could be there for you when he started to show his true colours. I'm sure she did help you see things from another perspective. And her perspective can still help you keep strong, just remember her words!

As far as the creepy events, if you have often used accounts, change your passwords regularly. If you have accounts you use rarely, consider closing them. Also consider setting up a special email account specifically for him to use for emailing you. Then change all passwords on your current one (or password protect it if you haven't). The silent phone calls would certainly be unnerving. I hope you're keeping a log of all these things. If the silent calls continue, I would assume they can be traced by the police.

I'm really not surprised he's turned nasty, it was only to be expected. He's passing from 'she'll come back' to 'maybe she won't be coming back'. For a man used to total control, the loss of that control will be infuriating. Remember that the main thing is to get yourself free from him. The costs may be huge, but it will be worth it in the end. I think I'd look at it this way; I'd rather end up safe on my own (with the DCs of course) eating beans and mince in a 2 bed flat than in a 16 bed mansion living with him and eating steak. You're a lovely, educated, strong woman. You'll get through this.

As across says - don't worry about the 'costs' - it has been known for courts to award costs to the other party if they think that things have been delayed or used to control and/or abuse the first party...if that makes sense. And yes, he is getting aggressive now to get back control over you, the dc, the money and yes it is stressful. I hope having your aunt there as a witness/shoulder/support was helpful. The more people in RL who know (something, not necessarily all), the better.

BUT - you are free. And you say I suppose I should be grateful we have a roof over our heads and that he can no longer lay his hands on me really. - you are grateful, I'm sure, but you do have a whole new abuse now. Your legal team should be able to shield you from a lot of that - they should be ccedin, direct your incoming emails into a new folder to be read once a week, change online passwords to something he cannot guess, get 'caller-id' on the phone. If the silent phone calls continue (and they may be the type that we all get, from call centres and the like) and there is no number on 1471, you can get in touch with BT or your provider and they can stop these calls at the exchange. I had to do this once (dirty phone calls every morning, no caller id then, no 1471 number logged) and they stopped them straightaway.

KOKO, adorably. You are strong, and it is for the best, for you and the dc.

Thanks.
I'm trying not to read too much into the 2 weird things. It may be a coincidence. It's just that I've had nothing of the sort before. The silent calls were in the night. Three times, woke me up. Unknown number and someone putting the phone down every time. Unknown numbers are normally from abroad. And the password was for my Apple ID. I got emails from Apple straightaway. Password was strong, but something H might have known or worked out. He is no IT whizz though so I don't know. There's nothing of particular interest in my iCloud but I'm not sure once you're in whether my emails could be read etc... It's just quite spooky. I changed the password almost straightaway, but it makes me nervous.

I think the reason why I think it could be him is also how he has skirted on the edge of legal since the orders, pushing to see how far he can go, backing off and then trying something else. The cced emails are just that. He is not supposed to cc me. It should be only about contact. He was reminded of that at the hearing. The email address he's cced me to is a new one especially to deal with contact. Instead of using it just for that he cced me into the correspondence with my solicitor. Then stopped when he was reminded not to, but apparently still justified it on the fact that some of what he said related to the DCs. It did mention them, but only as part of saying he was applying for a court order to get me psychologically assessed as not fit to look after them. My solicitor said he should stick to his day job as his emails were part rant part legalese. And yes he has been warned about incurring costs. He's now announced having a new solicitor ... so hopefully this will stop. In the meantime, he has stopped his salary from going into the joint account and is asking for the money put in mine in December back (it was an error!)

Across you are right he is absolutely livid. I can see why, but I thought he was going to delegate to the lawyers and not really get that personally involved, at least not in that way.

Call centre calls don't put the phone down, they're done by a machine.

You can read emails once you're into iCloud. I would change all your passwords on all your accounts to be safe. If you have any PMs from MN in your email, I would change your username and password.

It's just further intimidation - horrible. Your solicitor is ace.

get me psychologically assessed as not fit to look after them. - oh yes; she's mad, your Honour! She must be, to give up all that I've done for her! Tick.

Next it'll be ' you are not capable of looking after yourself and the dc; your work will prevent you looking after them properly; they will be irreparably harmed by you looking after them and working...

THEN it'll probably be 'Nice'; 'we can work it out can't we darling? Without expensive lawyers [so long as you agree to everything I say; sign here] '

then probably [a bit more] intimidation. Make sure your doors and windows are double locked, and do check the caller-id before answering. Infact, if it was the mobile, I know that iPhones have a feature that puts it on 'silent' between the hours of say 11pm and 7am.

What a bastard.