Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.

Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

I read your post as this being a push on his part to get control. He's already being successful in causing you distress.

If your ex is trying to push the boundaries through tricks and manipulation then in the absence of a legal yes/no I'd say play safe: don't respond and if he turns up call the police.

When's the hearing?

Have you been through all of his papers in the filing cabinet so you know exactly what's there?

I wouldn't arrange anything with him until you've spoken to your solicitor.

No way should be on your own with him.

What did he say at NY?

I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to upset you. That was very insensitive of me and I really apologize.

I understand about not wanting to seem unreasonable. But you got orders for residence and (I think) non-molestation. It seems to me that you would be well within your rights on the non-mol order to say that you don't want to be alone with him. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say things need to be arranged so that you either are out or have someone with you.

I do think that as far as he's concerned, nothing has changed except his residence. He either thinks that this is just some 'blip' in your marriage or that he can 'talk you over', but that eventually you'll 'see the light'. I think that's why he apparently isn't telling people or contacted a solicitor.

Is there anyone at all you know who can serve as a buffer? To be with you if he comes to pick up papers or accompany you for drop off? It doesn't have to be someone you bare your soul to. Maybe someone who would just 'be there' without having to know all the details? Barring that, insist that hand off be in a very, very public place, preferably a very noisy one!

I really do think you need to go through the cabinet before he does.

Maybe a quick email back to say something like "no that does not suit me, please wait to hear from my solicitor. In future please direct enqiries to solicitor and do not presume consent to your suggestions".

The contact arrangements being handled by his family- I think you can insist that you dont ever see him if that's what you want. I don't mean to be brutal he raped you and I can't see a judge being unsympathetic to a woman who does not want to face her rapist.

You are doing really well, it must have taken so much guts to do what you have.

Hearing is beginning of week after next. Since I had the email I've wasted my whole afternoon and evening. Again.

No I haven't been through every single file. Just stuff the solicitor needed and the odd thing I thought she might need but in the end didn't. There's loads.

He was drunk (very), the message starts ok then gets offensive and sweary along same lines as usual. He left a 2nd message apologising saying to forget about what he'd said.

PO's told me to be careful what I put online and actually I asked MN to remove parts of one my older posts this afternoon which they haven't done yet so I won't elaborate but feel v sad he did that. I so don't want him not to get in any more trouble really. If only for the DCs.

Oh don't worry Across I should have added a disgust emoticon or a total blurgh or something but I couldn't find anything remotely expressing how I feel about this. I realised when I posted it sounded so stern of me. You've been so kind throughout this, no need to apologise.

Oh he has a solicitor as far as I am aware.
Just been no real move on anything. Because the bomb (as it were)
was dropped just before Christmas I think things have been slow or not happening. The current arrangements were really just for the holiday.
But you're right - I think at the moment the only thing in his mind (or so it seems) are the orders.

For the handover this weekend I was going to say a very public place with my little neighbour in the car - I would then take her to the shops but somehow that new email completely threw me off track.

Personally I would go through every single file of his in the cabinet to make sure there's nothing you didn't know about, or that he might want to conceal. Although of course he may just be doing it to intimidate you.

I might say 'My solicitor returns on x date, after I have spoken to her I will contact you with regard to the items.'

I think Twink has a good idea about telling him to delay until you can speak to your solicitor. I also really think you need to go through the cabinet. Although, the more I think about it the more I think it's just a ruse to get into the house when he thinks you'll be there alone so he can try and wear you down so you'll take him back.

I think part of his thinking (with the emails and messages) is to keep you 'off-balance'. He may not even consciously realize he's doing it. It's just part of what he's always done. I think you're just seeing him more clearly now. And that's good! As you begin to see him for what he truly is, you will be able to move past his ability to manipulate and upset you.

Flim's right. Considering what happened, you should be able to insist on third party handovers, or at a contact centre with staff present. We don't have contact centres here so my BFF had to do handovers in the police station lobby for a few weeks until her ex finally understood that he was not allowed to harass or threaten her at handover.

I understand you not wanting to get him into more trouble for the children's sake, but really, just as many problems can be caused by children seeing their parents in unhealthy behaviours or being bullied. I'm not talking about prosecuting his assault of you, just having him pulled up by the authorities on his harassing you.

Hopefully the upcoming hearing will be able to set concrete rules for handovers and his contact with you. I think you need that for your own peace of mind.

The only thing that will stop him causing trouble is having to face the consequences of his actions. If you cover up for him you will give him free rein to continue.

Thanks for the support yesterday. Sorry for the panicky posting.

I've managed not to talk to him so far but I feel really anxious about the way he's trying to engage and how goalposts are moved. I feel guilty about starting this process and my instinct is to try to be nice and accommodating. I can sense he's infuriated by the fact I don't respond and it makes me really nervous about the hearing and how he's going to respond over the actual petition in the next few weeks, as it'll shape how the DCs and I live for the foreseeable future too... Need to check about handover but I'm pretty sure at the moment it's as mentioned before.

I need to be more business like, but easier said than done ... It takes effort but I can do breezy or icy with people like my mother. With H I can't, I crumble, I hesitate and let it take hours off my life and it's crap and makes me feel stupid and inadequate. Like I should know what to do, be more in charge of my own life, without constantly coming on here asking, or phoning PO or WA to ask. Also I realise I can't fix the relationship and his behaviour is horrible but I still care and worry about him.

Flimflammer and Twinklestein I'm going to acknowledge his email, delay until next week, and confirm handover for this w/e as first planned. Good idea thanks. No response might be taken as a 'yes' otherwise.

No idea whether he really needs the paperwork. I will try to have a look through the files.

you DO need to call someone because you have been brought up to facilitate everyone elses needs and opinions, and so you have no real life reference of the right way to behave in these distressing situations when people are trampling all over you. Its not your fault, you should have been taught these things by your parents but they are fucking useless and only concerned about themselves. So dont feel bad about that. WA and PO have seen this all the time, and this is their job, to help. Does the PO have a DV support who you can speak to, or is that who you speak to already?

He shouldnt even be speaking to you, or writing to you. I know the PO say they are busy, but can they not give him a quick call to remind him that he is breaking the no contact and it really wont look good on him.

Look through the files. Take out anything you think you need/get it copied. Keep anything that is just your business. Pack the rest up and have it sent to his office by courier - charge it to him if you can.

You also need to stand strong over him breaking the non contact, because otherwise you will be seen to have colluded on it and chances it wont be renewed when you need it to. you need to phone the PO every single time until they are as fed up with writing out reports as you are of getting them. It demonstrates that you are serious to him and to the courts, and it shows the PO that you are scared.

It's normal to be nervous. This is all new to you and right now there are any number of 'unknowns'. Just remind yourself that things will become clearer and unknowns will be settled.

Please, please don't feel guilty. You have nothing to be guilty of. You have simply left an unhappy and unhealthy marriage. That's all. You didn't have affairs, you haven't been abusive, you haven't stolen from him. You have done nothing dishonourable or wrong. He has. He should feel guilty for mistreating you and driving you away. If HE had been a good husband, you would not have left. You can worry about and care about a person who is toxic to you, but that doesn't mean you have to have them in your life.

As far as being businesslike, 'fake it til you make it'. Imagine yourself an actress in a role and 'act'. Eventually it will become 2nd nature to you.

Yes, he is moving the goalposts. But you can move them right back! Please know that you are stronger than you think. A few months ago you couldn't imagine that you would ever have the courage speak your mind. But you did. You didn't imagine you would ever have the courage to make him leave. But you did. And you will have the courage to move those goalposts back, too.

The girls are right Lovely, he is continuing to act as he has always done - only now it isn't about him having no respect for your body, it's about him having no respect for the orders you have put in place to protect yourself. He knows exactly how to undermine you and make you doubt yourself, and he is trying to manipulate you just like he always has, so you feel you are the one who is being unreasonable and that you "should" be more accommodating.

If you need to come on here every single time you need to ignore him, that's fine. We've all had a bit more practice in thinking "no I don't need to respond", and all of us had to learn how to start with, just like you are having to.

And even if your dedicated solicitor isn't back from leave yet, there will be someone in the office if you need help. Ditto the police, it's unfortunate that they are so busy but that isn't your problem, you need them when you need them, do not be worried about "bothering" them. That's what they are there for. And as Nettle says, if you contact them every time he goes against the order, ie he contacts you, they will soon realise what he's like and how hard it is for you to deal with. The court will also see that he takes no notice when someone - you - ask him to do/not do something, and they will understand even more how that has played out in other areas of your life.

Of course you still care and worry about him - many years ago my X knocked me about before driving off in a fury. I was more concerned about him crashing than I was about what he'd done to me; I felt responsible that he'd hurt me and had to drive off angry...I felt so guilty. Can you see how crazy that is, that's how abuse works, and it's where your poor head is at the moment, even though your H has treated you very badly many times, you feel responsible for him...but it is possible to feel sad about who/how he is without thinking you need to stay on the receiving end of it, and you will get there.

Adorably - your STBXH knows full well that you are a people pleaser; a HIM-pleaser. He will use that to its fullest, by pushing boundaries, not respecting your wishes, ignoring your 'orders'. You do what he wants remember Well not any longer. Stand your ground. He needs to be told, and he needs to learn - the hard way.

Re the 'papers' - remind him that ALL communications should go through solicitors. If he wants 'papers' he can contact your solicitor when she is back, and you can then seek out the papers and send to her for him to collect. At least that way, there is a record of what he has removed, and why. And he can't then (in the future) deny all knowledge of 'this bank account' or 'that dividned' or 'those shares' ....or whatever the papers are about.

acharmofgoldfinches I feel a lot like you describe. I just can't stop blaming myself, I drive myself crazy with guilt and feel responsible for the way he behaved/behaves, and worry about him. Some of it is because I worry about the DCs ever finding out, that terrifies me but it's not just that, it's also just about him. I've been busy with the course the last few days but even then my mind is often miles away thinking about the whole situation. Not a good place at all. Sometimes I even feel guilty meeting him and going out with him 10 years ago when actually it was him who pursued me; it's that bad. Sometimes I see how ridiculous it is, but other times it completely takes over.

He didn't respond to the email about waiting till Monday so it could well be he was trying it on. I need to stop jumping every time he gets in touch and try and have as little contact as possible, and get some resolve back. Nettletea yes it's the unit that deals with DV.

Adorably, the freedom programme is often recommended on these boards as a valuable tool when leaving an abusive relationship. From an outsiders view, it seems that you don't recognise just how much you have had to deal with and how abusive your husband is. Do you think you might benefit from it? Its available free,online, or you can attend in person. Honestly, some of the behaviour you have described, just one instance would affect me for life, and you have put up with it all for years. You come across as a lovely person and I hope things continue to move in the direction where you get the life you deserve.

How are you doing adorably? Thinking of you

Keeping my head above water for now, thanks Awake bit better than last week. It was helpful to discuss the contact attempts with the solicitor and to know it's now been dealt with. The last 2 weeks had felt like a real set back between my family having a go and H's messages. They really upset me. Also there has been no mention of needing to collect papers from the house since my email... so it really looks like you were all right. I have yet to have a look through the cabinet though.

Dc2 was poorly last weekend so handover had to be rearranged and only dc1 went as H wouldn't take dc2 who then got very upset and angry (with me). Felt really rubbish and so bad for DCs.

Told two people about divorcing without giving details. Pleased I did that. One is a school mum. The other the woman I do the work placement with. I know I need to do more of that and build my own support network as it were.

Less positive is that H's sister has tried to engage quite a lot and actually after the last weeks I feel I shouldn't talk to her. I've told her nicely I was very busy and suggested seeing her later this month but then got further messages. I have a feeling she wants to meet before the return hearing. Also a woman I'm friends with but really through H who was friends with her husband has been in touch. I say 'was friends' because in recent years H wasn't so keen to talk to them but never really said why and was actually annoyed that I got on quite well with them when I saw them. She sounds like she knows something has happened so maybe word has got round... I'm trying to shelter myself from all this though so not too sure about having lunch with her.

Had a disaster of a counselling assessment however today, so I'm now wondering what to do next. I could get something through WA but my understanding was that it would be very short term so was waiting for this one but now I don't know. I need to check. Private while there's money or maybe ring one of the numbers the PO gave me... I get a bit muddled up between who does what too.

Flimflammer I did online freedom programme in summer. I couldn't face real life course at the moment. No I probably don't see the full extent. The stuff since August is what I need help with, that much I know because the panic attacks are not getting better and not a day goes by without thinking about it. The rest I don't know at the moment.

dear girl, just do what you need to get through at the moment, on an hour by hour basis if that's what works best. It's absolutely crap that H wouldn't take DC2 because they were unwell - he doesn't sound like a real dad, presumably he just wants the kids to show them off, not real parenting. Bit like with you, a shiny thing on his arm, but no meaningful love and affection.

I think developing a RL support network is a good idea, at your pace. If H's sister wants to engage but you don't then I think maybe just say "I'm sorry this just feels so difficult and awkward at the moment so I'd rather not" - everyone will have to accept that because it's the truth, and then you won't feel you have to make excuses. Re the friend if you don't feel like you can cope with it then don't, but equally it may be that she is genuinely wanting to be supportive, so it may be worth exploring a little more before you completely decide against it?

I know it's very tempting to completely cut yourself off so that you feel as secure as possible, and there is a time when that is absolutely the right thing to do. But it may also be that this couple had an idea what was going on between you and H, and so now she knows you have broken free she wants to be there for you...hard to know either way I know, but maybe worth having a phone call with her and see what your gut feeling is. You'll soon know if it's someone you feel you can trust or someone you need to keep a distance from. And actually you don't need to talk to anyone about the details anyway, sometimes just having someone there is support enough.

I'm sorry you thought the counselling session was a disaster...did you just not get on with the counsellor? If that person doesn't suit you I would go privately if you can - have a look at www.bacp.co.uk/ there is a section "find a therapist" which you can search by topic and location. Everyone on there is fully trained and registered, so you can be confident they will know what they are doing with sensitive subjects.

Always here when you need us xxx

It was an assessment only acharmofgoldfinches. My referral dated back to a while ago and mentioned stress only. The guy went through some questions and what I had completed but I just felt quite uncomfortable with him and his whole demeanour though he did say he was just doing the assessment. We were interrupted twice too (someone walked in and then his mobile). I explained my situation had changed and said the panic attacks were not getting better. I asked about PTSD and getting referred somewhere specific for that because as time has gone on I think that might be that rather than just stress. At that point he became quite patronising (or so I felt) and said I was self-diagnosing. In hindsight maybe I should have said nothing maybe. He hummed and aired and eventually said to see the GP again and I just gave up. So I am back to square one, which I wasn't expecting.

For the children, I don't know. Yes it's awful for DC who clearly felt the rejection. H used the excuse he was going to take them out. But he could have stayed in. That's what I had to do. Deep down I think he didn't want to have to look after a child with the vomiting bug... He's always had the fun bits really. He's agreed to have them tomorrow for the afternoon after I asked. But even writing that makes it sounds like he is giving them crumbs and his email made it clear he was doing me a favour. He's got his own accommodation too, it's not like he's crashing out at a hotel where it would be difficult. You see, I think he is actually not that comfortable looking after them on his own because he's not used to it. But if he doesn't do it it will just get worse.

The friend is lovely, I'm taken aback she knows already. Maybe because I have heard from no one else yet. I will probably ring her back as you say. I'm not sure if they suspected anything. Her husband and H became pretty frosty towards each other while he would still happily chat to me in social occasions. I'd assumed it was a work thing.

I think you'd do well to find another Counsellor - yes your situation has moved on, and he doesn't know the detail, but you're hardly going to feel like telling him when he is so patronising! Anyone with an ounce of sense would have realised you were terrified and unable to "open up", and would have supported you properly...grrrr! See what the GP says but I think you may find the six-sessions through the doctor thing inadequate anyway (in terms of amount of contact time vs all the stuff you may need/want to get into) so it would be worth looking for someone independently, who specialises in the kind of stuff you've been having to deal with. With regard to the cost after the divorce, ask the solicitor if you could ask for a lump sum to cover the therapy you are going to need to put your life back together.

Re the DC, your H is an arse...just make sure you record all of this and give it to your solicitor, so that when there are discussions about their care it's very clear that he doesn't have the first idea how to be with them. They're not always going to be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed when he's due to see them, and he's going to have to learn that being a real dad means coping with whatever mood/health they are in. Clearly he just wants trophy kids he can show off...

Re the friend, you may be right, maybe she won't have suspected anything...but I have a friend who has recently got into what looks like a potentially abusive relationship; she is already trying to minimise his behaviour/cover it up, but every one of us is waiting (and hoping) for it to go wrong so that she gets out quickly before she's in too deep, so you may find that although your friend doesn't know the detail, her antennae may have been telling her there was something wrong; I know I always bristle when I see women treated badly (in whatever way) by their partner.

I hope the hearing goes OK next week, and in the meantime take care of yourself and the little ones. xxx

I think in your situation you may want to request a female counselor. There are good and bad of either sex, but I think you'd be more comfortable and 'open' with a female.

How cruel of your H to hurt dc2 that way! It only goes to show that he is only concerned about his own self and no one else. As before, write the details down & keep emails.

Beware his sister. I think you are right to distance yourself. Rest assured he is prompting her to everything she is doing and she will be a conduit of information back to him. He probably has her convinced that he is an 'innocent victim' of a 'wife gone off the rails' and whatever she does is only to get the two of you back together.

As far as the friend, call if you feel it would be good for you. Again, just be a bit circumspect in what you say until you are sure her friendship is genuine and that information will not pass from her (even unwittingly) through her husband back to your H. I was recently chided by my DH for similar with friends of ours who are going through a very bad situation. Something I said innocently to the wife got back to my DH through her (hopefully) STBX. Nothing earth shattering, my DH just gave me a and reminded me that 'loose lips sink ships'.

Good luck next week. Hopefully the hearing will result in some concrete 'rules' for visits, contact with you, and finances.