Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.

Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

Sorry I don't have advice, just congratulations and commiserations. You have done a huge and amazing thing in separating and yet of course you will feel desperately sad at the reality of your marriage breakdown.

Nothing is "your fault", you are taking control of your life in the best way possible.

It may feel desperately painful but if it helps at all in the darkest moments, be assured that at this time next year you will be looking back with wonder at how much better your life is.

And your children will be ok. They have you for their mum, plainly you are a very kind, considerate and loving parent; anyone who has read your threads can sense this, and so they will be ok. But they will grieve, of course, and that is a process different for everyone.

I am sorry for your pain and your eldest's sadness but please be assured that these most difficult days will pass, that pain may punctuate your days but it will not consume them.

You are doing everything right, take a moment to breathe and reflect on how far you have come since you started your first thread.

Hi adorably. I agree with what previous posters have said. You are clearly a wonderful mum. All this will take time to sink in, both for you and the kids, so allow yourselves this time.

Also bear in mind that over the years your STBXH has normalised the abuse in his head. Hence he will talk about 'misunderstandings' while keeping an entirely straight face. You will have to learn to screen out this rubbish and only absorb relevant, practical information. Have you thought about changing your phone number? You could keep your current SIM card in a cheap phone which you check once in a while. Don't give your H your new number.

Your H may not like it but you want a divorce and that's what's going to happen. Your solicitor sounds great. If at all possible direct all communication through her. She will have seen it all before and can reassure you in those moments of doubt.

Take care adorably/admirably, I'm thinking of you xx

Everything AcrossthePond said - absolutely spot on.

Personally I wouldn't reply to him and have everything go through the solicitors. I particuarly wouldn't talk to him about DC1 as he will simply use it against you.

Definitely keep all of his voicemails and emails etc

Try to keep faith OP, you've done the right thing. You could not have continued the macabre charade until after Christmas, it was right to do it now, even if this Christmas feels a bit odd. By next year your new routine will be in place & the children will have acclimatised.

With abusive men it's very often impossible to leave at a time that feels most convenient, in many cases as with yours, women have to leave before it escalates any further.

All of the 'you're not well' and have had a 'breakdown' line, apart from being self-protective is just continuation of abuse.

If you are in any personal contact he will keep up this barage and try and break you down with it. That's one of the many reasons not to engage with him at all.

Agree with everyone - don't contact him about anything. All contact through solicitors.

Adorably - all men state that the wife has 'had a breakdown', or 'is mad' or is 'out of control', or 'not coping' . No-one should take the slightest notice. You have evidence of his abuse. Don't let his manipulations inside your head - it is NOT YOU! Keep all emails/texts etc. Don't listen to whatever he is saying about you to others; he will of course paint you in as black a light as possible.

You have done the right thing. DC1 will be fine; if you both try to keep the dc out of the divorce (other than contact. they should not be affected too much. No complaining about the other party, no moaning about what the other has done/has not done) they will adapt.

And all men try to force you to stay in a marriage 'because of the children', and they all say they are going to go to counselling. And they all threaten to 'take the children'. All bollocks. You are a fab mum and the children would not be 'better off with him' - oh, that's another thing they say...

Great posts ptumbi.

It's not as if he's even interested in the children or has a job that would make it feasible to look after them. It's all just textbook intimidation.

I am glad I posted as I hadn't really thought about it reinforcing the idea of me not being suitable to look after the children. I just thought it would just be taken as if you don't want the DCs to be upset then don't press on with a divorce. But you are right, I can see it could be twisted even more.

I haven't communicated with him and I don't want to either. In my heart I know I made the right decision. I've been unhappy for quite some time and what he did in the summer and the absolute lack of remorse after is something I couldn't get past and still haunts me pretty much everyday so I am relieved he is away from me as it could only keep going downhill. But I struggle with the manner and feeling of immense guilt about the orders. They're something I feel I've done because I was in an untenable situation and I would just like him to understand that, and the fact that even if I am not his wife I still want to parent the kids with him as best as possible, if that makes sense. In a way it would make me feel less sad if we could do that, but you're right, re-reading his email I can see I'm barking up the wrong tree.

To be fair he only called and left voicemails on the day he got the papers. The email was sent at the end of the week and there has been nothing since. I listened to them/read them as I wanted to know where to stand really. My solicitor knows, and that's why she said not to worry and the posturing. If it continued though that would be an issue.

He asked about the presents as they are all with me (they were in the house but he didn't see them or take any of them) and he wanted to know what they were and how I was going to do that. I was going to just reply to that part of the email. All communication should go through my solicitor but there is still the need to liaise a bit about handover for the children so it is a bit difficult to ignore him completely. Also through solicitors he agreed to days we suggested for the visit to his family and specified that someone else than him would do handover this time (this is one of the reasons why the solicitor said he was trying to look reasonable and restrained). But there has been no further communication on this, so at the moment I have no idea who is doing it or what time. I will just leave it now and hope for the best. I don't want to make things worse.

As for the furniture and artwork, my solicitor knows too. Some are valuable and were bought during the marriage. I don't really care about them as such but he wasn't supposed to do that, she said as much and is on the case.

Dc1 seemed ok today, just need to take it one day at a time and give ourselves time and stop panicking. I will keep reiterating and reassuring as you say.

Thank you all so much. I hope you all have a good Christmas by the way.

But I struggle with the manner and feeling of immense guilt about the orders. They're something I feel I've done because I was in an untenable situation and I would just like him to understand that, and the fact that even if I am not his wife I still want to parent the kids with him as best as possible

He will never understand that you were in an 'untenable position' because to do so would mean he would have to understand that what he did was not just terribly wrong but actively illegal. He would have to understand that those orders were necessary from your pov. He is never going to admit that he's a rapist. His line will be forever more that he is a lovely guy who made some mistakes and his wife behaved unreasonably. You might as well accept that now.

But you may well get to the point that he understands that you want to co-parent as best as possible with him.

Right now it's too new to think about happily co-parenting. Deal with that later. Right now all you need to think about is protecting yourself from his manipulations and from further abuse. Let him figure out the handover and then you can simply say 'yes' or 'that doesn't work for me'. His silence is just a way of trying to get you to contact him. Proceed with whatever plans you have for yourself and the children if he doesn't make plans.

As far as the presents, what does 'how you were going to do that' mean? Is he angling for an invite for gift opening on Xmas morning? A big NO to that! Is he expecting you to give him some of them to give to the children? If so, simply send the gifts along with whomever picks the children up. As far as what they are, I always did the shopping but my DH knew what the gifts were because we discussed it before I went shopping. If your H hasn't been interested enough in the past to ask or be involved, it's too late to start now. Just another way of manipulating you into communicating with him. A chance to turn any communication to 'us'.

And as far as communication goes, there is no reason to communicate directly with him about anything other than the 'who and when' of access. Emails would probably be best as they create a paper trail. You or your solicitor can inform him that all communications are to deal strictly with issues surrounding the children and access and nothing else.

Twink and across are right, as ever. He is of course not going to see himself as anything other than hard done by, misunderstood. Honestly, it's better for you to start from a place of 'these are my demands, take them or leave them' - and then soften. It's much harder to do it the other way round.
Make your stand. He is not your friend. Make sure he knows that. You cannot 'make' him understand your pain.

Acrossthepond I don't know what he means. That's why I am puzzled. I'm sure I told him what I was getting. I know I discussed one specific present before and I showed him at least a couple. That I'm sure of. I don't know, it's me being too nice again I think. I just didn't want him to think I was messing him about. I didn't think about him angling for invite - surely he would know better, what with the orders?! I won't respond.

Yes it has crossed my mind that he is waiting to see if I get in touch regarding the contact. I'm also not sure whether he was going to get someone in his family to do that. Not sure if they know yet either. I will just wait and see now.

twinklestein you are probably right. My solicitor said he was in damage limitation mode now, which is true. He will know about police involvement by now as well. She thinks that's why they write about the 'misinterpretations' and he's suggesting I have had a breakdown. She says he may well say I am lying next. In fact she has told me brace myself as she reckons things may get worse if the return hearing confirms the current situation (and she thinks there is no reason it shouldn't).

I need to grow a much thicker skin and stop thinking too much ...

I don't know what he means. That's why I am puzzled. I'm sure I told him what I was getting. I know I discussed one specific present before and I showed him at least a couple. That I'm sure of. I don't know, it's me being too nice again I think. I just didn't want him to think I was messing him about. I didn't think about him angling for invite - surely he would know better, what with the orders?! I won't respond.

It's most likely simply a ploy to get you to communicate directly with him. That provides him with much greater scope to attempt to manipulate you. However, I see you've decided you won't respond to him directly. You should keep that as your default approach.

That thicker skin will come, trust me. The problem is it that what makes skin thick are usually scars and calluses! Just remember that you don't need to talk to him about anything other than access to the children. And that he has no right to demand anything from you. So take time to consider carefully anything he asks or says before responding. "Let me think about it" is a good phrase to remember.

I agree with your solicitor. It will get worse, that's just the way it is. I don't mean to sound crass, but from things you've said I gather that there are a goodly amount of valuable assets, substantial income, as well as his 'professional reputation' at stake. I don't think he'll offer you 1/2 and just go quietly, that's obviously not his nature. But his reputation needn't concern you and your solicitor will handle the financials.

I remember reading somewhere that silence creates a void and humans have a need to fill voids. What that means is that his going silent may be a way to get you to 'fill the void' by contacting him. To also keep you off balance & waiting for him to 'state' his plans. It's a power play. The same is true for his making obtuse or unclear statements, like about the gifts. There also may be the possibility that his solicitor has told him to 'back off' and let him/her handle things. Either way, don't allow yourself to just sit around waiting. Make tentative plans for yourself and the children, even if it's just a movie or a walk to look at Christmas lights. You can always change them if he asks to see the children.

And do keep up with your course! It's important for you to continue to build your own life and career.

Hi adorably the trouble is you now have time to think, until now you've had to focus on planning and escaping, so try not to think too much and do NOT let him inside your head...

As the others have said his responses so far are fairly standard stuff; "you've lost your mind" will almost certainly be replaced with "you're lying" which will almost certainly be replaced with "but I thought you liked that kind of sex, you always looked like you were enjoying it, I was just trying to please you..."

All total bollocks, he knows what he has done and he knows that when the truth of the matter comes out his "standing" in the world, whatever that might be, is going to be zero.

Don't communicate with him directly at all, just pass anything he sends you to the solicitor and don't respond - that way he can't use anything you say to mess with your head/resolve. If you need to communicate re the children just stick to "this time at this place" and ignore anything else.

I know there will be some heart-stopping moments when you wonder if you've done the right thing, but you have. And you have done the most difficult bit already, just by leaving...

If ever there was a time of year for distracting yourself with meaningless rubbish this is it, so fill up the next few weeks with fun for you and the children; just relax and enjoy being in charge of your own life and your own body for the first time in ages. Have a lovely Christmas xx

Thank you Acrossthepond you speak a lot of sense. I think it's not the silence as such that bothers me as, you are right, I imagine that the solicitor would have said the calls and messages were not acceptable. It's just that absence of confirmation of time for handover puts me in a difficult position with the children. If I say they will see him but it turns out they won't, it's pretty bad. Equally if I say maybe you will see him, it's pretty unsettling isn't it? So mention nothing at all, but then if they ask?? I just find it difficult to know what to say to them.

Regarding finances, completely for the solicitors. I have no idea what I'm doing at all. It's very complex too. My course is keeping me sane, no way will I give it up. I also really want to find some paid work at some point as the placement will be finishing in spring. Financially it's all very uncertain so I will need to get my act together too.

acharm yes we're watching lots of Christmas movies here. Dc2 is SO excited which is so sweet and a lovely distraction. I feel sad about the situation but weirdly calm though. Not sure H's reputation is going to suffer from this to be honest. Unless the police decided to do something, no-one is going to know really because I don't feel able to tell people the reality.

My next task is to call my parents to tell them ahead of our arrival that H is not coming and that we are divorcing. I have been putting it off but I need to do it so they have time to get their heads round the news and hopefully get any comments out of their system before we see them so no undermining comments are made in front of the DCs. I was going to email but I think this is going to infuriate my mother even more as she will feel out of the loop.

I really resonate with bits of your post. I have recently separated from my husband. Like most people he is good, bad and ugly. My turning point incident was him making me get out of the car, on the way to a (my) family lunch on a motorway in front of our 3 children after humiliating me because I was a non-earning sahm. All this because I dared to disagree with him. Its abusive, its hurtful it is evidence that he considers me so worthless that he can treat me like that. I am telling you this because like your husband mine was truly capable of being abusive and it could not work any longer. BUT: after 18 years of wanting to make things easier for him, okay for him, to assure him I am good and good enough for him, that I'm worthwhile it is such an ingrained habit. I want him to understand that separating is the right thing, that we had a shit destructive relationship that was never going be right. I want him to know that, stop dismissing it, stop making it my fault. So it is the hardest thing in the world to not engage or not respond to him. I worry about him still, I still want to make it better for him and the children and other people. It is a concerted effort to begin to listen to myself, something that I and you have obviously done as you has so bravely got this far but for me it has not been an instant switch to hating him and refusing contact. I know it would be easier if I did. Anyway, you have done an amazing thing and you HAVE done the right thing but it is hard to live with. All there very best xx

Remember that the visit with your parents is optional. If you find that your parents aren't accepting of your situation, it may be better if you cancelled the visit rather that subject yourself to pressure from them. If you think they would listen you could tell them that the divorce and your H is a 'banned subject' during your visit or you won't come.

As far as the children seeing your H, I wouldn't say anything until you have firm plans. If they ask, tell the truth, or a version of it. That you haven't heard from their father so you don't know exactly when they'll see him. If they ask you to call him, tell them that you must wait for him to call you.

wifeontherun I am sorry, it sounds really scary and awful. And no I don't hate him. I hate what he did and I feel contempt for what he's (we had) become but at the same time I feel sorry for him. And with the children I feel really sorry and sad that he is missing things like Dc2's excitement, so yes guilt again. I try to detach but it's not easy. The lack of anger has also been a little difficult as apparently I come across as minimising what he did and acceptant of it. The PO and the WA worker both said that in different ways.

Acrossthepond if it was just me I might not go, but the children are looking forward to the trip and it'll be good for them (lots of young relatives to play with and fresh air) so I am afraid I am highly likely to go as I am not sure when the next time would be. If the call goes badly I will have to lay some rules. I do stand up to my mother - it's just incredibly draining and stressful, which isn't needed right now.

For contact, I think it will take some practice if he isn't being fair.

hello adorably hope you are having a reasonable day so far, I LOVE the idea of the little one being so excited that is great .

Re not being able to get angry and minimising/being accepting try not to blame yourself for this, it is entirely normal in an abusive situation as it was a way of protecting yourself from the reality of what was happening.

What HE became (not what the two of you became, it made me sad when you wrote WE - this is not your fault) was a monster and you have had to live with that monster for a long time, and the only way for you to get through it was for you to think "oh it's not that bad, I can cope with this". So when you told the police and the WA they will have noticed that you appeared calmer about it than they would expect, but they won't have judged you for it. Actually they will have realised that you have been through a lot to have to behave like that. Same for us when you were posting that maybe you shouldn't bother WA because "things weren't as bad for you as for some other people" - that was you minimising to cope, and thinking you didn't deserve WA's help, and we were all jumping up and down and saying of course you do...it is an entirely normal survival mechanism, which we all understand. The important thing is to try not to minimise to the solicitor so that she can do her job, but I'm sure she has realised that this is how you have been coping, she sounds really very good.

You might find you get angry at some point, it may happen before too long, or it may be a long time coming. Either is fine, you have been through so much and because there is still difficult stuff to get through you are still in survival mode. One day there will be time and head space to look at this, but not yet, you don't need to do it until you are ready.

With regards to the visit to your parents, and anyone else knowing, you don't need to go into any details of course, but I wonder if you could just say that there are very awful reasons why you need to divorce him that you can't go into yet. And as you did with the school, just say that the police have had to be involved. That should tell everyone everything they need to know. You don't have to destroy his reputation, he has done that himself. But you don't need to protect him either. I know it feels like you do, and I understand you feel sorry for him, but actually he doesn't deserve either, you are the one who has needed protection - from him - and you are the one who everyone needs to feel sorry for. Not in a pitying way but "my god how has she got through that". I think if you can tell your Aunt as much as you feel able to, then maybe she will be able to deal with your mother for you, as you say, you really don't need extra pressure right now.

We are always here, and although I know things must be very strange (you are back in the house now?) I do hope the three of you manage to have a good Christmas. xxx

I've just read your threads and just wanted to come on and add some more support. You have been so brave. I hope that you manage to have a nice Christmas with your children and that next year you are able to get plenty of help to put all this behind you and move forward with your life.

Hi, adorably. I read your threads yesterday with my jaw dropped. You have done so well to leave such a horrible situation. I think someone who could be really helpful to you would be an ISVA ( Independent Sexual Violence Advisor). They often work from SARCs or sometimes for WA. They would be able to offer you practical & emotional support and help you navigate things like whether or not to continue with the police and signpost you to the best support. If you googled the name of your area and something like "rape support" you could find out where you local one is. Or PM me and I can look for you. Chin up, there are lots of us here who have survived similar horrors now living happy lives. Much love and courage to you.

Hi adorably, just wanted to wish you a happy Christmas! I hope you can enjoy the downtime with your children. You are an amazing, very strong and brave woman. Look after yourself and take it easy. Take care xx

Happy Christmas OP! You're doing brilliantly well at keeping it together under pressure. Sending you strength to deal with the ongoing situation. I hope you manage to enjoy Christmas with your children.

Happy Christmas to you too. Thank you for being so helpful and understanding over the past few months.

Not doing too great here. Awful conversation with the parents last night on the phone. Then this morning my mother in law rang. She had left a message earlier so I picked up thinking it was safe. She seems to have no real idea why I and the children aren't coming for Christmas, then she talked to the children, then dc1 handed the phone back to me and it was H on the other end. He tried to engage me in conversation, wants us to come over to his family so we can both talk and find a sensible resolution to this, he loves me, he got married for the long haul etc. I managed to tell him he wasn't supposed to be ringing and please could he email me details for the handover. He said his sister would come over to ours if necessary that wasn't a problem but to please think about his offer. I asked him to please stop doing this and put the phone down. He apologised but still repeated to think about it before coming off the phone. I feel so upset about this. Basically he is not following the order, is he? Also I still don't have a time for the pick up. Maybe I should ring his sister? I don't really want to though.

Dc2 is also bouncing off the walls with (over)excitement now. Not the greatest combination ...

I am going to take the children out for a longish walk straight after lunch and hope it helps sort out my head and the energy levels...