Views needed on argument with my boyfriend...

[dragonflyballoon]

I'm in the middle of an argument with my boyfriend.

We have been together for just under 5 months.

This weekend he went away, out of town, on a long standing plan to visit some friends. I stayed home.

Prior to meeting my boyfriend I was a single parent for 3 years following my divorce from exDH and have 2 children. Whilst I was single, I found a local support group for single parents that I used to attend regularly for things like picnics , days out etc. I have continued to attend activities since I have started dating my new boyfriend as I still consider myself to be a singe parent if that makes sense and have made friends with the group.

Today I went to a picnic at a local park with the group. I had completely forgotten to mention this to my new boyfriend. However when I told him this this evening he got very annoyed that I hadn't told him, didn't understand why I was going there as I'm not "single anymore" and interrogated about all the men that were going. He said that he has a male friend who goes to the group who told him that it is used as a single parent dating thing (something that I have never been aware of). I told him I go to meet up and chat with my female single parent friends and for my children to play with their friends.

He got quite loud (i.e. quite shouty - though he denied this). I told him that it sounded like he didn't trust me and I didn't like the idea that I should need to tell him my whereabouts etc. He said he did trust me, just that he was upset because he has heard rumours about the integrity of some of the men that go to these things and that he is hurt because he doesn't consider me to be single anymore.

Is he being really out of order or can others see where he is coming from?

Your Not single BUT I think you should seriously consider it.... He sounds like a dick!

His behaviour is controlling and unpleasant and IMO will only get worse the longer your relationship continues.

Please ditch this guy before you become so embroiled that you cannot see the wood for the trees.

MamaMotherMum your posts are making me feel quite ill. Your attitude that OP should 'decide how much she can manage' (how much abuse?) and that she should just try and love him into being a normal human are just awful. You're basically saying that she should put up with him treating her badly because why? She owes him a relationship? (She does not) Any relationship is better than none? (It is not) All people are decent deep down? (They are not)
This man has shown signs of some very controlling, emotionally abusive and disrespectful tendencies and that's more than enough to end the relationship for If the guy feels he needs therapy that's his job to seek it out, not the OP's job to provide. You cannot love a person into being decent and it's a massive, massive mistake to try.

I once turned up at his house and he immediately told me that I smelt of "bloke"

Get away from him. I've been with someone who thought/spoke like this and it ended very badly. There is nothing special or unique about this guy. JUst walk away before it gets worse.

MamaMotherMum I don't think your posts are accurate. I can honestly say that my DH's behavior has never fallen within any of the list posted as warning signs. We have been together 13yrs. A loving respectful relationship does not result in these types of behaviours.

Mama - I think you need to have a word with yourself, and get yourself off to see someone as you are basically giving the sorts of excuses that abusers give. Perhaps you need help because you are one yourself still, I don't know. But what you are saying is not right.

OP - come on. 5 months in? If that's what he is like when you go to a picnic, do you really want to wait and find out what he is like if you go out with friends or [shock horror] have a male friend like, ever?

You hardly know each other. You are finding out that he is actually a controlling person. The façade will slip more and more and the nice things which are being done at the start [when everyone makes an effort] will drop off and you will just be left with an abuser that has ostracised you from all your support networks. Because that's what they do and this is just the start of it.

Try looking at it from this point of view:
OP - is my boyfriend a bit of a cunt.
All of MN [apart from one person] - Yes, yes he is a cunt.
OP - no he's not he can be luffly
All of MN - erm, the loveliness is the fake stuff, the cuntish stuff is really him
OP - disappears.

...three years later...

OP - how the fuck do I get out of this relationship, I have no contact with friends, or family as he was rude to them all, I have no house as he wanted me to move in and I sold up and bought him a motorbike which he didn't insure and then drove off a cliff [whoops, roll eyes smilie], my kids are all scared stiff of him and he hits me, spits at me and I don't work any more as he made me give up my job when he got me pregnant. It's his house and I'm not on the deeds. I have no money, no job, no self esteem, no friends and no family. What do I do?
All of MN - Women's Aid. Refuge. Get the fuck out of there.

... except for one poster: "Have you tried discussing it with him, as one adult to another? He can't be happy in this relationship either."

I am terrified of the idea of either my son or daughter getting together with an abuser and becoming an enabler and apologist, regardless of gender, a bit like . . .

MamaMotherMum - you regularly send your DH flying!!! That is so upsetting. I can't see that being normal in any loving relationship, I really can't. It would find it upsetting and intimidating. It is nothing to do with size/strength and everything to do with you feeling the right to physically disrupt your DH.

Women's Aid is quite well respected. I think if they put out a list then it is likely to be actually worth reading. If you think that the list is normal for your relationship then I think you may need to look again and think carefully.

This is nothing to do with judging vs understanding. Please, please understand that. Your comment pains me because so many women stick with abusive men because they think understanding will change them, or that they are all their abuser has, or just because they are a genuinely nice person who doesn't want to write somebody off. I am still this person and it's very hurtful to be considered judgemental when that is not what the situation is.

Condeming a relationship is not the same thing in any way as condemning a person. It's problematic - you can't change or help a person when you are so close to them. It's a simple hierarchy thing. Your relationship would have to not an equal one but one of mentor and student, firstly that's exhausting. The only comparison would be for a parent helping a troubled child, and even then there is usually school, respite, other family members, a wife/husband/life partner to share the load. (I appreciate not in all cases - in cases of a single parent lacking any kind of respite or support that's not usually sustainable either). In any other case of a mentor/student the person in the mentor role has time away from the situation to rest, regroup and refer back to their training or principles.

Secondly you can't have a normal, equal relationship. Healthy relationships yes involve taking on stress and problems which affect your partner and not just yourself. But they also offer support for your problems, they lighten the load, it's a partnership. They don't offload their problems onto you, they share them with you. It's not the same thing. You can't be yourself around the person you're trying to mentor, you can't relax, you have to be on watch for behaviours which you're supposed to be monitoring or not accepting.

Thirdly (and perhaps the most important point) an abusive relationship never has the hierarchy in either of these ways (equal or mentor > student). It's always abuser over victim. That is the way they will always see it, even if they have the odd moment or breakdown where they claim that you are so much better than they are. The very mind process which allows them to abuse prevents them from seeing their abuse victim as somebody worthwhile, valid, respect worthy, to learn from.

Should we try to understand abusers, even feel sorry for them? I believe so, although I would not ever expect any individual to do so, knowing what some have suffered. But the fact remains that it is still the very very worst thing to do to be, get into or remain in a relationship with a person who shows abusive behaviours. It's more likely to make issues worse rather than better. Their issues are theirs alone to deal with and need to be sorted before entering into a relationship.

Yeah, but it's a joke, Lisa, so that makes it all okay that the pair of them abuse each other. As long as you don't label it that, it's okay.

Let's hope there are no children involved.

And honestly, I don't want to be in a relationship with somebody who sees me as some kind of "dangerous unknown", I want to be in a relationship with somebody who can see and understand that I am a person, I have flaws and foibles just like him, I am not some terrifying species known as "woman".

This othering of the sexes is so damaging and should have gone out with the ark, really.

Does he live with you? Pay his share of the bills? Have an active parenting role re your daughter? No?

Then he is the boyfriend of a single parent.

Really, you would be foolish to refuse to see what is screamingly obvious. They don't magically get better the more you tie yourself to them. They get more and more controlling and it is harder and harder for you to get out.

For your sake, and for the sake of your daughter who you have to model appropriate relationships to because you are what she will think of when she looks at relationships and makes her own choices - please think carefully about whether being with this man is the right choice.

As for saving men. pfft. It is not the responsibility of women to save men or gently stroke their hair and show them women aren't dangerous. There aren't enough ffs' in the world.

The "smelling of bloke" comment is just awful isn't it?
So creepy and loaded with menace.

OP don't build a life with a man who seeks to castigate you over the way you smell. That's crazy shit!
He's not right...and you have a daughter to raise.

I know you've fucked off because it's all too much, but I hope you're still reading.

dragonfly

I sincerely hope that you have now fully managed to extricate yourself from this man before he inflicts any more damage on you and by turn your children. He has more red flags on him than can be counted.

I would also think carefully about what lessons you want to teach your children about relationships here (as well as what you have learnt about relationships to date. There may well be some damaging crap that needs to be unlearnt).

You were targeted by this man and he has played you like a violin. Men like this one like single mums because they think they would put up with anything from a man just to have a man around. Such men too actually hate women, all of them.

No-one should ever act as either a rescuer and or saviour in a relationship; neither approach ever works. Controlling behaviour is also abusive behaviour.

Also...he doesn't consider you to be single any more? What claim has he over your status? You are very much a single parent...he is your boyfriend.
Single parent groups are not pick up opportunities (although I have no doubt it happens). It's mainly women by the vast majority for starters. It's about company, understanding and support.

That he would deny you that, because King Dick is on the scene now, is appalling, and rather telling.

thank God for at least one voice of reason , mama

MamaMotherMum, she's supposed to be his girlfriend, not his therapist. With dcs to look after, she can't afford a fixer-upper. Not to mention the tiny downside that abusive fixer-uppers can't actually be fixed.

OP, there is nowhere good for this to go.

voice of reason?

You're taking the piss, right?

FFS! This is a 5 month relationship. I might understand 'giving things a go' etc if it were a long term relationship or if they had kids together but this is a new relationship and it's at the stage where you are still working out what each other are like.

mama everyone is reacting here to a very specific set of circumstances and a situation that is recognisable as the early stages if a controlling relationship.
Over many years if being together, having kids, major life events etc I am sure that there are situations where one or both partners behave badly in some way and it has an underlying cause that can be resolved. And in a
Situation like that you as a couple can work together to resolve these issues and get things back on track, communicating
Openly and honestly, and acknowledging mistakes and reactions. This IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.
and the OP can see the warning signs, which is why she posted in the first place.

I think your bf's reactions to asking after a friend and going to a group you've been in for a long time are really excessive. Nothing you did was odd or unreasonable or even worthy of note, really.

Unless he apologises and can unpack, with you, why he has over-reacted like that then I would take a big step back. And even if he did, I would say keep a weather eye on this kind of behaviour. If there is more of it, then he has trust and other problems and is probably not a good match for you.

IMO, he is probably the one who is cheating, BTW.

" He said that he has a male friend who goes to the group who told him that it is used as a single parent dating thing " - you know what other places can be used for dating? Bars, supermarkets, gyms, streets, work, friends' houses, your own house..
So basically he feels that you should stop having any kind of life of your own, now that he's in the picture?
Does he also mention that he does not like some of your friends, who don't understand your special love, and maybe you should see less of them, so you have more time together?

smelling of bloke got to me, too. Dragonfly, may I ask (sorry if too tactless or tmi), does he immediately initiate sex with you after you have gone on an outting without him? I would not be surprised as sniffing you like a dog would indicate that he would be the kind to mark his territory. Very, very degrading to you.

His concern about the men in the single parent group is a mechanism to degrade your intelligence, as if you were an adolescent with no knowledge of the world.

He has redefined the purpose of the single parent support group to support his perspective that you no longer qualify to attend...in effect defining you, yes, a control device.

He told me that "I was obsessed with him" and am always asking about him - I wasn't confused I was just making conversation. Can you see how he distorted the reality into a scenario that feeds into the dynamic that he (continues to) define and degrade you, now, as someone who can not be trusted around men. And to shut you up...I can bet you won't be to eager to talk about another guy with him any time soon!

that he is hurt because he doesn't consider me to be single anymore Well, that's what he thinks! This is a pure manipulation. You hurt him: shame on you, and he is stating (not asking) that you are an exclusive couple now without your input into that decision (again, as if you don't have a brain). He is shaming you into agreeing to the relationship boundary. I hope you will be able to tell him that you are not ready to be an exclusive couple and absolutely will not be ready for (pick a time frame) at least two years. Maybe then he will dump you=result!

I predict he will next try to discredit any female you mention. Then any family member. Then any co-worker. It is a process, sometime over a long period of time, to isolate you. But why? So you will serve him and only him. A "leash", a "muzzle", and a very high "fence" around his "property". Perhaps, he then may buy a real dog, if he doesn't already have one, and make a point to treat the dog better than he treats you, and expect you to laugh about it.

Cut your losses, please. He helped you out some, that was nice. But it does NOT give him license to treat you this way in return. He is degrading you, not supporting you.