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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Views needed on argument with my boyfriend...

246 replies

dragonflyballoon · 07/09/2014 20:29

I'm in the middle of an argument with my boyfriend.

We have been together for just under 5 months.

This weekend he went away, out of town, on a long standing plan to visit some friends. I stayed home.

Prior to meeting my boyfriend I was a single parent for 3 years following my divorce from exDH and have 2 children. Whilst I was single, I found a local support group for single parents that I used to attend regularly for things like picnics , days out etc. I have continued to attend activities since I have started dating my new boyfriend as I still consider myself to be a singe parent if that makes sense and have made friends with the group.

Today I went to a picnic at a local park with the group. I had completely forgotten to mention this to my new boyfriend. However when I told him this this evening he got very annoyed that I hadn't told him, didn't understand why I was going there as I'm not "single anymore" and interrogated about all the men that were going. He said that he has a male friend who goes to the group who told him that it is used as a single parent dating thing (something that I have never been aware of). I told him I go to meet up and chat with my female single parent friends and for my children to play with their friends.

He got quite loud (i.e. quite shouty - though he denied this). I told him that it sounded like he didn't trust me and I didn't like the idea that I should need to tell him my whereabouts etc. He said he did trust me, just that he was upset because he has heard rumours about the integrity of some of the men that go to these things and that he is hurt because he doesn't consider me to be single anymore.

Is he being really out of order or can others see where he is coming from?

OP posts:
rainbowinmyroom · 07/09/2014 23:13

Be patient? He is adult, and she is a parent with young children who are not his.

She has been with this person for under five months and he is already showing he is possessive, controlling, manipulative. He accuses her of cheating.

She has children by another man and he considers himself their owner and hers because he has 'taken them into his heart'.

She owes this person nothing, is certainly allowed to do as she damn well pleases and has no obligation to prove herself to him the square root of FA.

jaynebxl · 07/09/2014 23:14

You deserve better than this. Don't let yourself get to a point where this feels normal.

BertieBotts · 07/09/2014 23:15

Also somebody insisting that your relationship is super serious at 5 months (especially when there are children involved) is a huge red flag. He should be respectful of the relationship developing slowly. I understand not everybody is mature enough to accept/understand that but in that case he is not mature enough to be dating somebody with kids.

And, seriously. There's a limit to how open and accepting and "oh nobody's perfect, give him a chance" you should be. That's fine and dandy when you're young and free of responsibility and you have the chance to figure out whether you can live with certain personality flaws or not. With children you don't have that luxury. You need to be sure for them, surer than you normally would need to be. And go slower too!

Anniegetyourgun · 07/09/2014 23:17

Yeah... I had one of those. I was patient and tried to get to the bottom of why he felt insecure. He would learn to trust me, I thought. 23 years and four children later he was still on about it.

So I left the bastard.

Catnuzzle · 07/09/2014 23:18

So now it's your fault he's upset as well. Of course it is. You've questioned his authority. How very dare you. Don't you know your place? It's exactly where he tells you and when he tells you. You have no right to independent thought. He will tell you what you are allowed to think and do.

This will be your life. And your children's.

ashtrayheart · 07/09/2014 23:19

Listen to the wise words from people who have been there- this is very worrying behaviour.

MamaMotherMummy · 07/09/2014 23:35

Some people will let you in with enough understanding, some people will not. My ex would not, my DH did.

Maybe I am in a different situation because I had many emotional issues that no one else could/would understand that my DH has helped me with, both indirectly through his love and also directly through his patience and understanding. I suppose I am saying that the patience and understanding is reciprocal, though I must add it hasn't always felt that way and at times he has been very short on understanding and at times I have also.

To me, it depends what else there is in the relationship and essentially what kind of partnership OP wants. I understand the other posts that say leave him and decide to judge rather than understand, as it is a protective mechanism for the self and the family, I suppose. But at the end of the day it is up to the OP to decide what she can manage and how she wants to go forward.

However, I must say I find the idea of calling him names repulsive. An equivalent could be a woman feeling insecure shouting at her partner for some innocent behaviour that she (because of her past or other factors) is deeply hurt by, and the men he is telling about it calling her 'cunt' and 'crazy bitch' etc. It's immature and it lacks understanding.

I get that sometimes we don't have the luxury to be so understanding, especially when children are involved. However, to say that things always get worse and things can never get better is just not true. It depends on other factors in the relationship and what it is based on.

QuintessentiallyQS · 07/09/2014 23:40

Single or not, you are still a parent. Can you not parent and entertain your children if there are other adults there? Can you not have friends? Seek company of others?

He sounds manipulative and stupid. Do you want this sort of man in your children's lives?

Protect them. Protect them from him, and life with him, and not least ftom the thumb-twinning woman you will become under his thumb .

Bafta · 07/09/2014 23:42

Read the title and thought 'here we go again'
Read post and thought he's an arse, ditch him. Sounds like he's been watching About a Boy and assumes Hugh Grant is going to your picnics

MeMyselfAnd1 · 07/09/2014 23:51

There is no sometimes being controlling or jealous, either he is or he is not.

5 months and he is already claiming rights for being so generous and taking you into his heart with two children? Bloody hell, run while you can and before you get more attached to him.

rainbowinmyroom · 07/09/2014 23:53

Well, anyone this possessive, controlling and manipulative not even five months into a relationship, who minimises the person's feelings and claims ownership of her and her children who are not his is a crazy cunt.

And the only understanding that needs to go on, for the sake of the children involved here, is him understanding the meaning of, 'Jog on.'

MeMyselfAnd1 · 07/09/2014 23:56

Please read this Aid guide on how to spot a potential abuser

rainbowinmyroom · 07/09/2014 23:56

It's extremely immature, stupid and a waste of time to try to understand what goes on in the peurile, weak mind of an adult who kicks off and shouts at his girlfriend (the OP wisely does not label this specimen a partner, thankfully) for going on a picnic with her kids without his leave, accuses her of smelling like 'bloke' and plays head games with her.

DioneTheDiabolist · 08/09/2014 00:00

OP does your BF know you are a MNetter?

PumpkinBones · 08/09/2014 00:01

Everyone does bring vulnerabilities etc to a relationship. But that doesn't give you licence to behave like a dick. Why should the op be investing her emotional energy in excusing his unpleasant and controlling behaviour after such a short relationship?

MeMyselfAnd1 · 08/09/2014 00:01

Sorry, from the archives of Women's Aid:

Warning signs
Many people, including those suffering from domestic abuse, believe that abuse is solely physical violence, but this is not true, domestic violence can take many forms. When someone finally seeks help they are often amazed to discover they are the victims of a variety of abuse. Recognising some of the signs of an abusive personality may encourage someone to act before the situation deteriorates further.
We would like to thank Nora Penia for allowing us to use the following article.

Recognizing An Abusive Personality
by Nora Penia
Frequently, the question is asked: "How can I recognize someone who is abusive?" Here are some tip-offs to an abusive personality.

  1. The Need to be in Control

The core issue for an abuser is the need to control. Unfortunately, this does not mean the desire to control self, but to control someone else - the target. It is not unusual for an abuser to deny this desire and in fact, accuse the target of being the one trying to control. The abuser may try to control many things: thoughts, speech and actions, clothing worn, employment, access to money and how it is spent, choice of friends, use of spare time, what is said and to whom it is said, and so on.

  1. A Critical Nature

An abuser may be very critical - of the target's appearance, taste in clothes, music, friends and family, anything the target is interested in. Often, though, this criticism is disguised as loving concern. The abuser will justify the criticism by explaining that it is for the victim's own good and is done out of love. For example: "You are so attractive, why don't you wear your hair long?" Or: "Tight jeans make you look like a tramp, and you don't want people to think badly of you."

Often, early in a relationship, the criticism will be very slight, until the abuser feels a commitment to the relationship has been made on the part of the target. This commitment can be anything from dating steadily, sleeping together, marriage or the conception of a child.

  1. A Need to Shut Out the World

Many abusers try to cut the target off from friends and family. The abuser will point out ways in which family and friends act unlovingly toward the target, slowly trying to turn the target away from them. The abuser may contrive to move the target to another city or state, to limit contact. Once out of sight, it is much easier to control the amount of contact the target has with friends and family. These "outsiders" are often blamed for any problems the couple have.

  1. A Jealous and Possessive Nature

Usually abusers have a wide streak of jealousy and may question the target about how time is spent and with whom, what was said, and may probe for details about any friend's background. Of course, jealousy is explained away with declarations of love. "If I didn't love you so much, I wouldn't care who you saw, or what you did."

Abusers seem to share the idea that what belongs to the target, belongs to the abuser. An abuser will quickly expect the target to share anything of value with the abuser and may even push for shared financial investments or commitments. At the same time, the abuser may be very reluctant to share personal possessions with the target. Everything in a relationship with an abuser is one-way- the abuser's way.

  1. A Deep Internal Rage

The abuser often carries a volatile rage inside and it will flare up unexpectedly, in reaction to minor irritations. Many targets of abuse describe arguments with their abuser about "stupid" things. Ironically, the abuser uses the very fact that something minor caused a major fight to indicate that the abuser is really not an angry person.

  1. An Unbelievable Charm

Frequently, abusers have charming and likable personalities. But this charm is shallow and often a target will be warned by those who know the abuser, but may disregard these warnings as jealous back-biting.

  1. A Cruel Tongue

Many times, an early indication of abuse is the use of verbal language designed to make the target feel small, ugly, worthless or stupid. Cutting remarks are used whenever the abuser feels down and out. By making the target feel lousy, too, the abuser feels better. Even so-called pet names are often thinly disguised abuse.

  1. A tendency to blame others.

Abusers have a talent for twisting things around so it appears someone else is to blame for whatever goes wrong. If they get mad - it's someone else's fault. If they hit someone, it's their fault. If the car breaks down, it's someone else's fault. Usually, the person an abuser blames is the victim -- the spouse or lover. Abusers are so good at this that the victim often comes to believe it is true. Then the victim feels guilty.

  1. Cycles of Fighting and Making-up

Making up with an abuser can seem wonderful. Often the abuser will make grand gestures and give wonderful gifts - emotional strokes and real objects. Compliments, declarations of eternal love, expensive gifts (sometimes purchased with the target's money) help sooth the target's damaged feelings. Unfortunately, these measures are simply a ploy to regain the affections of the target and help cement the relationship.

  1. Behavior Which Creates A Sense of Confusion in the Target

Surprisingly, abusers do not seem to realize that the things they do to hold the target close, pushes the target away. Over time, the target begins to carry a feeling of sadness within, and because of the abuser's attacks, feels that somehow the fault lies within, not the abuser, but the target. Along with the sadness, many targets describe feeling very confused about the relationship, what should be done and the causes of the problems.

  1. Physical Contact

It should be understood that any physical action such as "playful" slapping, pinching, pushing, shoving, tripping, etc. can be a HUGE warning sign. There is nothing funny about causing discomfort, fear or injury, even in the "name" of fun. Watch out for any person who uses such tactics.

What is the best way to avoid getting involved with an abuser?

Unfortunately there is no sure way, but one good idea is to give the new relationship lots of time to develop naturally, getting to know each other and each other's friends and family. Abusers often want to rush the relationship, demanding a show of affection and commitment very early.

Find out as much as you can about the background of the prospective mate - whether or not marriage is involved. Such as: what was the childhood like? How do the parents get along? What about previous relationships? How did the relationships end? How are personal problems handled? Is there a tendency to blame others?

Introduce the new person to friends and family and listen to their feedback. Read about verbal and physical abuse. The more you know, the better your chances of avoiding an abusive relationship.

About the Author

The author previously taught relationship and parenting classes as well as facilitated support groups and advocated for victims of abuse. For over three years she has written an online advice column called At the Fence.

MexicanSpringtime · 08/09/2014 00:13

Another one here saying that this is not the man for you, RUN!

Of course he's lovely at times. Many if not all the people telling you to run have been in abusive relationships and we are not masochists, we fell for "lovely" men and ignored these red flags. But this red flag is not subtle at all. It is huge!

MamaMotherMummy · 08/09/2014 00:22

I'm not a fan of abusive 'witch-hunts'.

Some of those things on the list are indicative of controlling personalities. Some of them are completely paranoid.

I think often we are in danger of viewing ordinary human beings as terrible villains who masquerade as normal people, and ourselves as pure and innocent victims. In my experience, that does not reflect reality in the huge majority of cases.

PumpkinBones · 08/09/2014 00:26

What things on the list would you class as paranoid as opposed to being a sign of controlling behaviour mama?
I am not being snarky, am genuinely asking.

MamaMotherMummy · 08/09/2014 00:50

Playful physical contact. I regularly thrust my hip on dh's and send him flying and we both know it's just a joke. I am not abusive in doing that.

Making up after an argument. If people feel guilty or that they have done wrong, they may make grand gestures, particularly if they are a person that appreciates romance. Sometimes this might be done with an ulterior motive but for the majority of people doing something nice after being horrible when their emotions ran away with them is completely normal.

A lot of people blame others. They shouldn't, but it's very common and not necessarily symptomatic of abuse. If they insist that everything in the world is YOUR fault then yes, I would consider that abusive, but otherwise, within the realms of normal.

Many people have genuinely nice personalities which are consistent outside the home (in accordance with social norms) but are less stable at home. This is normal, as the home is where it is or should be safe to let the insecurities etc be played out and hopefully healed.

'Push for shared financial commitments' etc is a hard one. Setting up a joint account, abusive? A woman spending her husband's salary frivolously on clothes or shoes, abusive? I think that one varies from situation to situation and is not as clear cut as they make it out to be. Money is a lot to do with personal empowerment and a person withholding money can be as abusive as a person requesting it. It is a very complex issue. (However I feel I must mention here, in the past I paid thousands of pounds for my ex bfs drug habit and he would become extremely angry if I wouldn't pay. THAT is definitely an abusive behaviour in my book)

A loving husband/wife may suggest that a partner cut off friends/family that are seen to be unhealthy for their partner. I don't think that is abusive, but supportive.

Criticism can be difficult to distinguish from difference of opinion. If a friend said, 'you are so attractive, why don't you wear your hair long?' nobody would be talking about abuse.

There are of course cases where the above things are all done with an ulterior motive to try to control the other person, and I think we ALL have some desire of control to some degree or another, in order to get our needs met. That is human. We are at the mercy of our environment and other people in our day to day lives and that, at some level, is really quite scary. At the extreme end, it is abuse.

But I just get this sense that for some reason we are terrified of men and how they might destroy us, when often, they are just confused and misinformed and lost and trying to do the best for themselves (very badly). In some men's eyes, women are a dangerous unknown, and their strategy to prevent themselves getting destroyed is controlling behaviour.

That is not to say it is right or justifiable.

DioneTheDiabolist · 08/09/2014 01:01

Mama, if the OP's boyfriend needs "healing", I can recommend the BACP website where he can find many people who have been trained to help. He is abusive. If he wants to stop being abusive help is there should he wish to access it.

The OP's home needs to be a safe environment for herself and her DCs. Not a place for her BF to act out his psychodramas.

LetticeKnollys · 08/09/2014 01:02

I think he is falsely equating "single parents picnic" with something like a singles night at a bar. He is hearing the word 'single' and getting carried away. It sounds likely that (i guess he is childless?) and hasn't given enough thought to/can't comprehend your position.

I can actually see how this mistake could be made in his mind. But he sounds very erratic from your more recent posts which would make me worry about the potential for future dramas - what if they affect your DC next time? Also as a step parent/parent myself I agree with PP that him trying to parent/take into his heart someone else's children after only a few months suggests he is too immature for being in a LTR with someone with kids.

Isetan · 08/09/2014 02:44

After only 5 months he is not anything to your children. This is why it is recommended that you don't introduce too early because it allows you some time to get to know the person before exposing them to children.

'"Smelling of Bloke" that right there was the moment that you should have dumped his arse. Stop asking why he is controlling and jealous (which has absolutely nothing to do with you BTW) and start asking why you are exposing you and your children to someone with these particularly unpleasant character traits (which BTW is your absolutely your call).

After 5 months you are not obligated to this man and if you feel you are, then that's an issue that needs addressing because the price for his 'helpfulness' is keeping you on a short leash.

Isetan · 08/09/2014 02:54

But I just get this sense that for some reason we are terrified of men and how they might destroy us, when often, they are just confused and misinformed and lost and trying to do the best for themselves (very badly). In some men's eyes, women are a dangerous unknown, and their strategy to prevent themselves getting destroyed is controlling behaviour. WTAF! It isn't the OP's job to fix this man, she is neither trained or responsible for his jealousy or sense of entitlement of having a say in what she does.

MexicanSpringtime · 08/09/2014 02:57

MamaMotherMummy
I suppose if you have never been in an abusive relationship, it is hard to understand. But really, the OP's boyfriend wants to stop her going to a picnic with her children because she might meet another man? Do you really think that that kind of IMHO mad jealousy is a good basis for a relationship? A relationship that children will be involved in, moreover?

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