How do I tell him I don't want to go back to work?

[DontGiveAwayTheHomeworld]

DS starts school in two weeks. He's going straight into full-time, which frees up a large chunk of the day for me. Because of this, DH has started on about me going back to work. The thing is, I don't really want to.

We don't desperately need the money, things are tight but we manage. I never had anything resembling a career, and the only work I could realistically do is shop/cleaning work - I was more than happy to give that up, and I really don't want to go back to that, particularly if there's no financial gain (which there wouldn't be after childcare.) Besides that, I've been working on a novel for the last year and a bit, and the dream is to write full- time. The extra time I gain from DS being at school would be the perfect transition to that, but DH sees it as just a hobby. Which it is, I guess, but I'd love to make it my career, even if I don't make much money from it.

I just don't know how to talk to DH about all this, he's all but decided I'll be going back to full-time work outside the home, to the point where he's getting annoyed at the fact I'm not really looking. It's really eating at my confidence - like I'm not worth anything without a job.

No, it really isn't. People are just amazed that she expects her DH to fund her writing without complaint and that she can't work whilst this gets off the ground as she's too creative for drudgery.

I think she is talking about a need for fulfilment, which, in itself, is not at all unreasonable.

I just don't see why a compromise is a problem.

Perhaps I'm missing something.

My situation has some parallels to yours, and maybe some potential ideas. Years ago I gave up a well-paid and desirable job because I wanted to write. I didn't have the luxury of not needing to work, so I got a full time job in a bookshop instead. Big pay cut, but the hours were great and there was a lot of time to sit around thinking about writing (it was a quiet shop). I did write, and did get a book published during that period. Beyond the initial advance, I never made any money from the book though - it's bloody hard to do that.

Then I had a baby and stayed at home with him for getting on for 2 years. Then we needed money, so I had to go back to work, but I decided I wanted to earn money from writing. I started finding work on freelancing sites, copywriting, article writing etc. There's loads of it out there if you know where to look, and you can find well paid stuff if you go about it properly. I started with no track record in this area, but I've now built up a portfolio and I'm getting proper clients outside of those sites, and earning a good amount. It's ultra-flexible, so I do it part time around child care.

So while it's very tough to earn money as a novelist, it's actually not that hard to earn money from writing, if you go about it systematically. If you can basically write well, which it sounds like you can if you've had stuff published, then no retraining is needed, although it takes practice to get good at commercial writing. I find what I do interesting, and it still leaves me time to write my own stuff too. Maybe looking at doing this kind of writing might be a way for you to actually make money from doing stuff with words too?

Oh yes....and an artist (variety of mediums), a textile artist and a writer....

What do I think couples who both work full-time do? They leave their kids in after-school clubs so they can finish up their work day and then do the rest, haphazardly and in frantic fashion, at the end of the day. I know, because I've done both.

"I think she is talking about a need for fulfilment, which, in itself, is not at all unreasonable.

I just don't see why a compromise is a problem."

So if her DH wanted to fulfil himself by working in a cat sanctuary etc, you'd be suggesting that of course he should follow his dreams and cut down to just a couple of days actual work?

Or does he not get that luxury as it means no food on the table?

I imagine the DH is fed up of simply existing borderline with finances and wants some nice extras in life or to allow his daughter to go on trips etc as she grows older. Maybe he wants peace of mind their is another salary should he lose his job or get ill.

Compromising by getting a two day a week job???? Seriously??

Well 20 hours, or however many before childcare wipes out the gain.

His insistence on FT NMW work does seem rather futile if it means that she is working some hours just to fund childcare.

I get very tired of people assuming that writing is something easy to do.

Arse just because M&B give guidelines really doesn't mean that it's a straightforward path from reading them to knocking one out and selling it. And the idea you can top up your income with other (what, easier? lesser?) forms of writing is pure naivety. The journalists I know, who have credits on major papers and with major broadcasters, are taking salary cuts year on year because so many people write for free.

It's true there is excellent money to be had from some forms of writing, but you don't come by those jobs just by giving it a go. They are hard won from years of training and practise. The Op is best off getting a PT job half the week and writing for the other half, so she can contribute, have a life outside the home, and learn her craft.

His insistence on FT NMW work does seem rather futile if it means that she is working some hours just to fund childcare.

Oh FFS.... welcome to the real world.

So if her DH wanted to fulfil himself by working in a cat sanctuary etc, you'd be suggesting that of course he should follow his dreams and cut down to just a couple of days actual work?

No [confusion]

I'm suggesting that her DH's desire for to work full time in a minimum wage job is silly.(A) It seems realistic for her to set her sights higher. B)She'd be working some of those hours just to pay childcare)

I'm also suggesting this coming year (or two) is bound to be a transitional period in which she tries things and/or retrains and/or volunteers and/or works PT. I don't see the harm in writing while she jobhunts. Or writing while she waitresses. Or writing while she studies. Or writing while she interns.

I can't decide whether she sounds unfocussed and unrealistic. Or nervous and lacking confidence. Or just distracted and busy. Or some combination of those. In any case, I don't see the downside in being polite and constructive and encouraging.

DontGiveAwayTheHomeworld totally understand how you feel. I went back with DD number one part time as I loved the job I did but wanted a chance to be with her. Number two it just was such a sap on our income and DH had basically got a job covering what had been my salary that I didn't go back.
Good bits...
Lovely relaxed time with 3 year old and baby.
Bad....it's often boring
Good bits...
If it was sunny we hit the beach or park.
Bad bits....
If it was rainy painting making stuff baking etc can go wrong and they don't always like each activity.
Good bits....
You meet more local SAHM type people ...hmmm is it good?
Yes and no. Some are lovely, some not.

I'm xxxxxx years down the line. I downsized my career but went back to work in a lower paid but enjoyable job to fit in with my family and we cut the cloth accordingly compared to what we could've had.

Stay at home is great however many "stay at homes" middle class are just lazy arses who marry reasonably ok and then feign " I just want to be a mum" when they still have cleaner, gardener, grandparents etc etc who take the weight of the reality of being a stay at home mum, or equally as my own family career girls who pay no childcare but milk grandparent help. It irks me to think you portray yourself as hard done too when you've sets of grandparents running the kids about . Love to name and shame but it would be irresponsible of me

Arse just because M&B give guidelines really doesn't mean that it's a straightforward path from reading them to knocking one out and selling it. And the idea you can top up your income with other (what, easier? lesser?) forms of writing is pure naivety. The journalists I know, who have credits on major papers and with major broadcasters, are taking salary cuts year on year because so many people write for free.

Ha no.

I do know people who have written them. It is neither blindfold brain surgery nor toppling off tree trunks. It is somewhere in between.

It is actually quite common now to do your NCTJ and freelance all the way from there, in fact. Not that the OP has shown any enthusiasm for anything in that line at all, so I won't waste time going over it.

I think I mentioned something or other being possible, not easy.

How do you tell him? How would we know? You know your husband. If he's a normal reasonable bloke, it sounds to me like you need to go to him with a viable plan, or a set of viable plans, and you can discuss how you intend to earn money from your work. OK novel writing might be your main aim, but you might need to consider other avenues, (as suggested, jobbing writing such as Mills & Boon etc) either as an interim measure, or if you don't succeed getting published within an agreed time frame. Showing that you're open-minded to a range of possibilities is probably a good start.

Would you consider a part-time regular job, e.g. cleaning, shop work, etc. for just a few hours a week just to get some regular money coming in, and using the rest of your time to write? I'm self employed, and to get started, I had to have a part-time shop job, and do my freelance work around it whilst I built up my business. It was hard work, and yes I often had to sacrifice weekends and evenings, but it was worth it.

So, I'd say, tell him what your feelings are, what you feel you need in your life (e.g. meaningful work). I'm sure he will respect this, and will help you achieve it, if you show that you also care about the whole family's needs. If he's a money-oriented person, respect that too, and try and find a compromise that suits you both.

Are you quite young OP? Its cool if not, just that most of us are more jaded and less idealistic about our chances of achieving our dreams by our forties! I have a friend who recently shocked the rest of us when said she wasn't prepared to get a job in a shop, cafe or whatever despite being absolutely skint after divorce because she is a trained professional who is just struggling to get any contracts in at the moment (I suspect she just isn't quite as good as she thinks she is sadly). Life just doesn't work like that, we all need to pay our way and pull our weight, especially when there are children and other people involved.

As a word of encouragement, I am now making a living doing stuff I just did for a few hours free locally out of boredom when I couldn't properly work due to child issues. I had absolutely no plans for it to have become anything at all but I found I was good at it and loved it and my life has taken a whole new direction from what I expected. You might find the same if you actually get out there and do any old job to help support the family.

Surely a good writer needs to get out there and experience new things, meet new people, explore new areas of society and life? At the very least a cleaning or shop job will give you moments of boredom and mental space when you can give your mind over to plotting, rethinking, and adding detail to your book...

If the real world is working just to fund childcare and receive no profit, then I'm glad I'm not in the real world. How does that make sense apart from a clearly personal choice, which is valid

If the real world is working just to fund childcare and receive no profit

I think you will find this is a what was posted. A slight but very relevant difference in the wording.

..... if it means that she is working some hours just to fund childcare.

I think you will also agree that many, many working parents see part of the earnings go on childcare..... yes??

Can't

Yes, I agree and its personal to each of us. The point I was making is that if there is not much or no financial gain to the OP working and they are managing without the extra money, where is the problem?
I'm sure the OP would be the first into work if her family were struggling.

The point is Cant if the first 20 hours per week benefit the family, but the subsequent 20 hours per week make almost no difference, why not stick at 20 hours per week and use the extra time for career furthering activity?

Or indeed any other constructive activity?

M&B really isn't jobbing writing, honestly. They may take on more new writers than typical publishers, due to the sheer quantity they put out, but they are still looking for something special, that stands out.

You get an advance, it's not like pseudonymously writing for some of the kids' series that are out there (which incidentally could be another potential avenue for the OP - they tend to offer a lump cash sum). And when I worked with them the advances were actually very small - money only began to kick in at a decent rate once an author's books were published in all the other M&B markets (and they pick and choose which titles get to do this) and once they had multiple books out.

Unlike most books from other publishers, the print titles come out once and that's it - no reprints, no year-round availability. They come out one month in the supermarkets/Smiths etc, then get swapped over for the new batch the next month.

So it's harder than you think to a) get published there and b) to make decent money. Not to say it's impossible, I also know people who've done it! But I think if you want to write, might as well write an 80k book you have real passion for, than a 50k M&B title you are churning out because you think it's easy.

The problem with M&B manuscripts is that if they decline them, there's no other market except self-publishing (or maybe some online pubs). Whereas if you write women's fic/sci-fi/crime/whatever, there are many more publishers to choose from. Sort of. Even those markets are shrinking due to various companies merging together. I really regret not being more serious about my writing years ago - I did it, sure, but I wasn't focused enough.

I guess ultimately she needs to have the conversation with her DH but based on her OP it is likely to be a difficult conversation.

Another published writer here who has made pretty much feck-all from her book. I have a day job too, I couldn't not. Your comment about 'drudgery' was quite illuminating - I would say please do heed what thestamp has to say on the issue of fiction writing as drudgery and a battle against procrastination -- because it is the truth, and any successful writer who makes proper money from novels will recognize it as such. (Says she who is supposed to be working on her novel right now after a long day of work and child and cleaning and cooking....and seems to have gotten distracted...)

OP it's scary contemplating putting yourself out there and going back to work, starting from nothing, etc. etc. I completely see that. But you do have to at least try to contribute, surely? Otherwise it's just not fair on your DP.
If you're really not ready or willing to pick up some part-time work, one thing you could consider is applying to funding bodies for grants on the basis of your WIP. See how you go.

I didn't mean to give an impression contrary to anything you've said Hamster. There is a discipline in even attempting it, though. Writing to length, writing to a brief.

The point is Cant if the first 20 hours per week benefit the family, but the subsequent 20 hours per week make almost no difference, why not stick at 20 hours per week and use the extra time for career furthering activity?

I agree Arse. My issue is not how many hours the OP could or should work but her whole attitude towards it. Part time work is perfectly acceptable - I did suggest it up thread - but she doesn't want to work at all. She wants to stay at home and make a career out of writing.

Yep that was a general post Arsenicy not you specifically :). Having done some work for them (yonks ago mind) I always feel the need to defend M&B a bit! I don't think I could write one myself, but you never know. There's definitely a skill to being able to write successfully to a brief like you say.

I actually think (going back to another poster) it's healthy for a writer to have part-time work. I am generally v happy being solitary with my keyboard, but tend to go a bit stir-crazy if I don't get adult conversation for long. Working opens you up to new experiences, gets you meeting new people, helps you find inspiration.

Then we agree