Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

This is why stonewalling is so effective. It makes you feel sick to the stomach with dread and anxiety. When they eventually break the silence the victim is so relieved they will happily not question the status quo.

The relationship that was modelled for him by his parents is one where the male treats the female with disdain and contempt. Your dh needs to recognize how much work he needs to do on himself.

Yy, this is work he needs to do on himself. I'm not sure Relate is the place. This isn't a relationship problem - that suggests that you're equals in this; this is a serious problem with his beliefs and attitudes.

Listen to Lweji when she says NO counselling while you're living together.

You could have counselling separately to start with, with the added bonus that there would be no childcare problems.

Well done OP - good text from you. I hope you're ok.

I don't agree that asking about shopping was him trying to open lines of communication necessarily. More likely it was him trying to get things back to 'normal' by asking a mundane question in the hope that he will never have to communicate about his actual problems. You're right that responding in an appeasing manner would let him think this has all been ok. I think when you do talk about Friday you should put it in the context of what has built up over time and his ongoing lack of communication. Use what happened then as a way into the bigger picture.

You can't have your DDs growing up with a man who behaves like this. It would be disastrous for them. He either changes or he leaves. If there is hope, then he may need to leave temporarily to work on his problems and give you both some clarity. You can then see how things develop. Stay strong OP and keep talking on here.

Has he replied, btw?

Telling someone you want to punch them in the face is never right and I too would be furious, but now that you have all calmed down and a few days have passed, do you think he meant it. Would he actually do it or was it something he said in complete frustration. I too have had my DH say many terrible things to me, but after the fact when i analyse
it i realise that we all live in stressful situations and sometimes let our usual good behaviour slip. Chat too him and let him know how serious this is but unless you really feel threatened, try give him another chance.

There is a danger that, when he sees you are not going to let this go, he will say, yes I was wrong and I'm sorry. You can also talk about the stonewalling and again he can admit responsibility and apologise.

He may do this because then it gets the uncomfortable situation over and you can all get back to normal. But this isn't enough. He needs to commit to change. Big change.

This cannot be resolved overnight, he will need counselling. Beware being fobbed off with a false apology and going back into the old rut where he is comfortable blocking you out and never sharing his thoughts or feelings with you.

Chat too him and let him know how serious this is

Oh the irony

This man has irretrievably ruined your marriage forever. he has said something inexcusable and threatened his wife.he cannot expect you to simply forget and move on. You will always view him differently from now on and feel some fear within the relationship. You are no longer equal.

if he doesn't get that, then he really is the bastard he is painting himself to be.

A bit of a different take on this. I understood from your posts that there have been times when your DH was looking up solicitors and you were completely unaware your marriage was in that much trouble.

I agree he's trying to normalize this but I suspect it may be that ignoring / pretending it never happened, is the only way he can move forward/remain in the marriage.

In my opinion, he doesn't actually want to ignore this, and is probably fearing if you do talk, it will be the start of a divorce/separation.

Sadly, I don't think the ignoring choice is an option for either of you anymore. There's no way to brush this under the carpet, and it will repeat itself again in another way sooner than later.

Perhaps the biggest fear and step for you both is to admit the very real fact this marriage is probably over, and start that as your talking point.

Yes, what Fairenuff said.

I do think also that his initial thoughts on the marriage may not be accurate since they are based on him not communicating and not allowing for any options for actually working on the marriage. It seems like his attitude is that things are either good, or they are not good but you just put up with them, or you leave. Until he experiences a different approach he won't know what he might want. You don't have to wait around to find out though.

Ok, so he got home and said we'll talk about it after kids gone to bed. No asking me if that was ok.. I feel I don't really know him anymore. Though obviously I don't really want to get into things when dds are around. Esp dd1, who is at the hear and repeat stage..

I expect he has planned what he's going to say. The talk will be him talking and saying his side, ie you wound him up, etc. He won't be expecting much else.

Whatever happens, whatever he says, don't commit to anything just yet, just tell him you need some time to think over what he said and would like to talk some more later.

He will probably be expecting the big forgiveness that he always gets and for you to admit 'your part' in 'making him' angry enough to threaten you. I don't think you should go down that route just yet.

Tell him you are not sure if you are ready to forgive him yet because of the way he has stonewalled you which was actually nothing to do with the angry outburst. Tell him that you need to see him put the counselling in place first to show that he means to take steps to change. Also you should ask him to also read up about stonewalling so that he can understand what he's doing.

Actions are what is important here. He can say anything, whether he means it will depend on whether he follows through.

Alwaysalone, you are doing really well in a horribly stressful situation. Please don't let him bully you into accepting his point of view, if he starts turning the whole thing against you.

These three days of him not talking to you are not his way of trying to get his head around a difficult situation - it's his way of grinding you down, in the hope you will simply cave in, and he can carry on threatening you whenever you step out of line.

I would just keep repeating to him that his behaviour has been unacceptable and that if he refuses to see that, then there is no hope for the marriage.

Good luck and stay strong!

Good luck, OP. I don't know which is worse, the aggression or the silence. I think if there is a chance of your marriage, your DP has to do something about his inability to communicate his feelings at the right time and respectfully

Another thing, OP. He says he will talk now but do you think he will actually talk and open up. Because you say he never does this.

A good tactic is to say, OK, I'm listening, talk. Then just let the silence stretch out. Even if he says, 'I don't know what to say', just nod your head sympathetically and keep silent, making eye contact with him. Eventually he will hopefully find the words to express himself.

He has to be able to have a conversation, so what you are aiming for is not him sitting in silence listening to you and not responding, or him giving a prepared speech and you listening to his reasoning that will 'justify' his attack.

Neither of these are good, you really need to try and get a two-way exchange of ideas, thoughts and feelings. I would suggest putting a time limit of half an hour, or an hour and then agreeing to both take time to think and re-visit the conversation tomorrow. Keep doing this until you are communicating properly.

It's going to be a long process of learning to communicate and it can't be rushed and all sorted out in one evening's chat.

If he just comes out and says he wants to separate, don't panic. This might be another bluff. Just say, I am happy to give you as much space as you need, where will you go?

Don't agree to leave the home yourself.

Good advice here. Particularly with letting him talk. See what he proposes to solve the issues and what he says about the threat he made and the silence.

It's possible likely he will say he wants to separate. I'd agree with him.
which he will probably quickly backtrack

I do think, given the threat of serious violence, that the work on the marriage should be done apart, for your safety.

When I left home I was determined that I would not feel afraid in my own home again.

What would madden me would be that possibly so much that he might express will have got to this point because he hasn't been sharing anything he thinks or feels up to now. He hasn't been allowing you to take on anything you could have done, or to tell him what you need. I think he needs to realise that so much of where you both are right now is down to his communication failure.

I agree totally with not being afraid to agree that he should leave as an initial step and you will work on things from there.

Phew, Always, thank goodness. Well done on bringing him to this point. I wish you the very best of luck this evening, and hope he behaves in a way which shows absolutely that he knows how much more you deserve from a relationship and how twisted his approach is, not to mention how damaging.

I hope he also shows true remorse for his threat.

I think that Fairenuff, temporary, Lweji et al have the right of this, and have given you superb advice all the way through.

Please do find some rl support too. If he does come up trumps and you have a real basis for working on your marriage, you are going to need people you trust around you as it isn't going to be an easy ride; if he falls at this hurdle then you are going to need people you can trust around you as it isn't going to be an easy ride either.

Bad behaviour brought into the open is less damaging than bad behaviour hidden in the dark.

Good luck for your talk this evening Always

Relate are good at providing individual counselling and as PP have said that would be best at the moment rather than going together.

I actually think the OP's OH needs to see his GP. I think she said that this is the first time he's shouted at her in 7 years. So there could be an underlying physical health problem, or MH condition.

I hope this evenings discussion is contructive whether it is seeking help or splitting, hugs x

Well, what can I say...

It went really really badly :( :( :(

Not only is h not in the slightest bit apologetic about what he said to me, but said it was my fault. He said I was selfish, and arrogant and think the 'sun shines out of my arse'.. He said my whole family spoil me, and that contributes to my sense of entitlement. He said the way I spoke to him about forgetting dd's shoes was a million times worse than what he said to me (his was just 'horrible words', mine was a 'horrible behaviour'). He said I was incredibly selfish dragging the kids all the way there, and then coming back because 'of a stupid reason like refusing to share a hotel room'.

After pressing further, he said he resented being told what to do with regards to the kids, and also being told when he could go out and when he couldn't. He resented being told to stop football (he used to come home at midnight as their pitch time was 10-12am at the local football club). He couldn't promise that he wouldn't threaten me again if I spoke to him the way I did on Friday. Oh, he ruled out all kinds of counselling cos HE doesn't need it, but it could pop along if I wanted to cos I definitely do. He kept repeating that I just don't listen to him, and that I have a whole list of character flaws that he's told me about before but I've ignored him. He then kept repeating that I don't listen, but wouldn't give further examples.

That's the crux of it. I started my five minutes first, and basically said what he said shocked me on Friday, though I nag a lot, but that was no excuse for what he said. I also said that I was with him cos I loved HIM, and not because of dds, and that I didn't want to stay together just for the kids. He just remained passive, and didn't say anything.

Throughout our entire conversation he was watching the telly.

I've never felt more heartbroken. Where is the man I fell in love with? Have I made him this hurtful and vicious? I guess yes I have. One thing is for sure though, we can't ever go back to how it was.

He is hurtful and vicious because that is who he is.

He's been pretending otherwise until now.

Don't you dare blame yourself.

Tell him to go. Now. That you won't share space with someone who wants to punch your fucking face in.

You and you babies deserve better than this. You really do. :(

Oh no, how crap.

Time to talk separation?

Well done for having it out with him though.