Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

Alwaysalone I'm so sorry your husband spoke to you in such a nasty way. Even if you did nag him there is no excuse ever to threaten violence.

I can identify with a lot of what you are saying, I gave up quite a professional career to be a SAHM to our DC, I also got post natal depression. To be honest I probably nagged my husband so much, he probably did want to punch me but he never vocalised this or made me feel that way.

I found it quite a culture shock having dc1 I had no confidence in my abilities as a mother and was so worried about doing anything wrong.
If my husband didn't do something the way I would have done it I would nag and tell him he was wrong.
This is nothing like the 'usual' me I am the most disorganised 'wing it' person you can meet usually.
I do genuinely think it was all related to PND, I seemed to get a bit OCD about how things were done and it would make me so anxious if I thought someone had done something differently to me.
Not because I thought I was right but because I couldn't seem to cope with something being done that wasn't 'just so'

My husband put up with me nagging for a couple of years we had DC2 and I was still a SAHM and then my mum told me she was worried about how I had changed from such a happy go lucky person to someone who seemed to be constantly stressed and defensive / offensive about everything.
I was so upset when she told me I cried for days because it hit such a nerve I knew she was right. I realised that I hadn't done anything for myself in almost 3 years, I'd only had 1 night out etc.

I decided to join the gym which was so weird at first leaving my dc at home, I started going out with my friends again once every couple of week and started a college course in something that I've always wanted to do and I do feel like 'me' again finally.

I am only telling you all this because I was wondering do you make sure you do things for you? The 'nagging' thing struck such a nerve with me because I know that I was 'nagging' because I felt desperately isolated so the little things like shoes etc would have been a big deal to me too. The little things just seem so much bigger when they are your day to day life if that makes sense.

What you decide to do with your dh is up to you I am not in any way at all saying that your nagging caused your dh's outburst as tbh I think his response was a massively disproportionate reaction to what you had said.

Whether you stay with him or not, if you are aware the 'nagging' is a new thing and not 'you' then you need to address that as a priority IMO, I don't even necessarily think you need counselling etc you need to do fun things that you enjoy and take some time for yourself.

I just wanted to give you a hug when I read your posts as you just sounded so sad. You sound like a brilliant mum to your dc and I'm glad you seem to have known from as soon as this incident happened that you deserve much better treatment from your husband.

As I said I'm pretty sure I nagged my dh much more than you nag yours and he never once threatened violence. You didn't deserve the reactio you got

To answer your actual question.

How do you get a man who doesn't talk, to talk to you? In order to save your marriage. Because that's what it comes down to, you know full well that a marriage without effective communication is no marriage at all, and will only deteriorate.

I have the same problem. Which is fine when everything's great. But when there's some issue (and it doesn't have to be as extreme as the terrible thing he said) there's no discussion. Women in general are programmed to make things work. Evolutionarily, it's better to have the one man I suppose. (armchair psychology i know.)

I digress... I fantasise about involving a third party who lays it on the line with dh, some mentor figure he will listen to, for the wake up call.

Sorry no answers, but totally, totally understand the nightmare that is an emotionally unavailable dh.

Can only advise to harden your heart, get some professional advice (not saying you should file for divorce obv) just because you sound so lovely but a little more self interest would be wise.

I think it might be good to take the ball out of his court rather than a situation of waiting to see what he does, meanwhile indicating that his lack of communication doesn't have specific consequences.

I think if you start talking to him about the verbal assault as an opening line then you aren't going to get anywhere.

I think you have decided/realised that your marriage cannot continue if he doesn't learn to open up to you and if you don't learn to stop criticising his poor parenting skills.

I wonder about you taking control of the situation, it would perhaps underline that you mean it? I was thinking that you could book a few sessions with a therapist (ring around some, speak to them about the issues and what you want out of it and find someone you click with or get a recommendation) sort out childcare and tell him that you have booked them for both you of so that you can decide together whether or not to continue with the marriage.

If he refuses to go with you then still go - it will give you support and help. It may take a few weeks for him to realise that you truly mean it that you will divorce him if the communication doesn't majorly improve and he may come around to getting joint therapy with you, if he doesn't then you have your answer and can start divorce proceedings.

Oh, OP. You sound terribly lonely. Your choice of nc is heartbreaking. You think H is your best friend but you hardly see him. Is the MH the only adult you see all day? The summer can be hard as toddler groups (etc) don't run and you end up tied to the house or contemplating expensive outings.

It sounds like H thinks his parents' marriage is an admirable exemplar (misogyny and imbalance and apparent mutual loathing notwithstanding) and you think it is amdemodel absolutely to be avoided. I think all your problems stem from this - you are trying to steer away while he is trying to steer towards.

All the best.

Good morning.. Day 3, and still no talking. I really wanted to go to my mum's today, but I'm too ashamed. Ashamed as I talked to her last night and pretended we were on holiday and everything was fine-couldn't face telling her on the phone. Also ashamed that the girl she's raised is a coward.

H is downstairs with the girls acting as though nothing is happening. I can't face telling anyone in rl.

You poor thing- this is awful and ridiculous. Why on earth is he behaving like this? Do you think he is trying to force you to say it was your fault?
What will happen tomorrow when he goes back to work- just come home and ignore you or will being at work 'break' the weekend pattern and he will start to speak?

I can't believe he has not apologised and talked it through with you and done something nice to try to make it up- if that is possible.

If you don't mind me saying; your relationship is very unhealthy (imo). Nothing is sorted out it seems when things go wrong. T he sorting out of things is a really important skill I think. It lets you put things away and move on.

Just go and see your mum and tell her the truth. You need some RL support. She's your mum and she would want to be there. Don't feel ashamed. You are not a coward.

Go and visit your Mum without the girls, give you a chance to talk to her and have a cry and give your H time alone with them to practice his solo parenting

Just to say OP, I think that if you leave it until he wants to talk, I personally would feel this terrible 'limbo' I would take control, and ask him to talk, and if he won't talk, then leave until he is ready to!!

The 'nag post' by scarlett rings a chord with me too, but in this case no PND but a husband with bi-polar. Until it was diagnosed, well actually, until he accepted he needed medication (diagosed reasonably quickly), I was obsessed with making his life as 'perfect' as possible, as I didn't know what would cause some form of emotional reaction, what kind of a DH was going to come home that night.

He's 'my' DH again now the illness is well managed, but I have some residual anxiety issues after living with this for the last 7 years (married a lot longer!) and can 'nag'.

My DH also works ridiculous hours, runs a business and is the main earner, so there are similarities. Even in the darkest hours, he was willing to engage though, in the deepest darkest bits, it took persuasion. It took a while to accept medication and counselling, in fact, an ultimatum.

And he also had a bit of a screaming rant at DD, not swearing or threatening violence, but enough to scare her and the rest of us. He drove off, came back after an hour, and was beside himself with remorse/emotion/guilt/shock, whatever you would call it. This was very close to the time I said 'enough, you go on medication, or you lose us'

We are in a good place now OP, I have rambled away and made no sense but wanted to send a bit of understanding. Family dynamics are never simple and I think a lot of folk might have left before DH was ready to accept help.

Take care

Cross post - that is ridiculous. He either talks to you or leaves.

He has to engage, is he trying to punish you or something?

I actually think I would be feeling pretty angry right now. By refusing to speak he is trying to make this a row between the two of you rather than face the fact that his words and behaviour were totally unacceptable. My partner does this and it is designed to minimise his unpleasant behaviour. I would be tempted to take the girls and go away for a few days if you can afford it. At least then you would not have to tolerate this very controlling nasty behaviour and it would force him to face the fact that you are v angry with him, rather than it all be about him. The actual trigger ie the shoes is not important. He could have been annoyed with you by saying any number of other things including telling you to stop making a big deal out of it or whatever. Instead he chose to be threatening and nasty. I wonder what his reaction would have been if you had forgotten the shoes and had asked him to get new shoes on arrival?? Would it have been all calm and no problem we all forget things or would there have been a row about it? have you ever told him to fucking shut up or I will punch your face? No I guess not.

Just go to your mums anyway...you need some support.

He needs to apologise and explain. He is avoiding it and refusing to back down.

Your Mum has previously accused you of nagging your husband. Don't go and stay with her unless you think she will be supportive. The last thing you need is someone else blaming you.

It really does sound like he has buried his head in the sand and is waiting for things to go 'back to normal'. He absolutely does not want to be held accountable for his actions.

I'm so sorry, OP but he is demonstrating how little you mean to him. This is not you, it is the way he sees himself. We don't know the causes, whether it's his upbringing or whether he just thinks only his needs matter.

But to treat you like this is incredibly cruel. For all he knows you are still in fear of being punched in the face, after all that was the last thing he said to you. He doesn't care how you feel. He may even be enjoying punishing you.

I agree with those who say go out. Leave him to it. Is there a friend you could visit? Your mum might not be the best person to confide in as she may not be able to see what he's like. It's common for an abuser to appear perfectly rational and kind to others whilst treating his partner badly.

OP, I'd take the girls and go to your mum. Once you've managed to say to her what he said to you, you will stop feeling so trapped and isolated. He is dictating everything, just remove yourself. You do not deserve this treatment. He is the one in the wrong. Whatever the fallout, your girls are witnessing all of this and it WILL be doing them harm.

Btw, it doesn't mean anything that they are downstairs with him and not with you, just in case that's on your mind.

The shame belongs entirely to him, not you. Get your girls and take them out of this bullying situation. It is harmful to them.

Whatever has happened before be it things that paint him in a bad light or otherwise this is truly horrible behaviour. It goes way beyond possibly not knowing what to say, it's a control thing. How awful.

I think I would go and set the girls up with a DVD and go and try to engage with him. If he refuses to respond I'd say "if you won't talk to me we can 't resolve this" if he continues to ignore you I'd say "if you will not communicate with me then our marriage is over, is that what you want?" Anyone that felt strongly about their marriage would surely, at this point say something.

I've been following this thread since yesterday, having read from the start.

I am so sorry things are so difficult. It sounds horrible.

Do you have anyone else you can go to in RL? A friend or a sibling? You really, really need someone to talk to.

Just describing the whole situation out loud to someone might help you.

You just can't live like you are right now and your husband has no right to put you in this position. Regardless of who did or said what, what was in the heat of the moment, or what was the result of built up frustration, what is happening right now is unacceptable. He can't ignore a serious issue and refuse to speak to you in your own home just so he can avoid something he doesn't want to experience (talking about it and any consequence). Instead, he's quite prepared for you to be miserable for days on end.

And why are you in the spare room? This is his tantrum, not yours. Move back into your own room, pack a bag of his things and leave them at the door. Make it clear that if he is going to continue to behave like a prat, then you are not going to be unnecessarily inconvenienced by it. Tell him so - just because he isn't talking to you doesn't mean you can't make your position clear.

And don't bother listening to his father. For goodness sake, you don't need to bring that misery on yourself too!

You do not need to pacify him or your FIL, or to passively accept the situation. Tell him, fine, be a fuckwit, but he can sleep in the spare room or at his parents.

I can see that you have loved this man, but you've got to love yourself a bit more than you seem to right now! You deserve more respect than this and your little girls deserve to learn that it is not ok to live like that.

I want to be objective here, but I can see my anger towards this man is coming out! I'd better stop here!

It really is a nasty way of bullying someone isn't it.

Op, his parents have not spoken for 20 years, which he admires his dad for.

Come on, you need to wake up now and start being pro active. This is how it will be for the rest of your life unless you take some action.

I will add that DW finds it hard to make the first move if we've had a row but is fine once I've broken the ice. Either she will engage with a discussion or she'll do something nice for me to show me she wants to say sorry and then she does. She came from the most toxic family set up you can imagine but is fully aware of it and never wants to replicate it.

OP - I think you are going to have to be very strong. He needs to leave. I don't think you should. But whatever, you are going to have to be very strong.

I am spluttering here. Just...astonished at the looong posts focusing on OP's "nagging" problem , and all the therapy she needs.
Facts.
This man has form for stonewalling her, or exploding, and of jealous rages based on nowt.
Before they had children, she saved loads of money because they agreed that as he earned more, she would stay home until child was 2, but she uses her savings to buy everything she might need for herself, and the children's clothes.
Her husband has never said he was stressed at work, and in fact works weekdays 9-6, so... like most people then.
He is not, as far as we know, digging ditches 14 hours a day. He earns, she says, a lot of money, and OP is saving them a bundle of childcare costs, so lets ask ourselves why none of her personal effects can be paid for out of his salary, which is currently the family pot.
She believes this btw, and is not resentful of it.
After she had PND, and then became pregnant again quite quickly, he agreed to pay for a home help, so they are clearly not poor..
I just wonder about that separation of hers and the children's things from him?
She also seems to believe that she is a dreadful person since having children (3 years) and is very concerned about working on her own faults. This is great, but how concerned is he about his faults?
And now, after screaming at her, in a confined space presumably (the car) to shut the fuck up of he will punch her face in, and then completely ignoring her for 3 days, all the advice is on how she can dance around him to find out whats wrong.
Yeah, maybe he has bi-polar (although my aunt has bipolar, and still knows the difference between right and wrong) or maybe he is depressed, but we don't know, do we, and neither does AlwaysAlone(there's that name again) because he is fucking stonewalling her as if she has done something awful!!.
And half of you are perpetuating this.
OP, I don't understand why you can't march in there and say "your behaviour on Friday was appalling, but you know that. We either need to properly talk, or you need to be packing a bag".
Except I do know why you can't do that; because, frankly, you sound scared to confront him.
And yet so many pp advising how to keep this marriage together. For what?? Is it that important to have a husband, that you allow your sense of self esteem to be eroded and you feel ashamed? What you YOU have to feel ashamed of??
I feel like I am in a parallel universe sometimes. OP I am not part of any Brigade, let alone the LTB one, but, years ago, I did LTB, and turns out that I am a lot saner and happier for it. Just saying.

Oh Thank God, I x posted with some sane people!