Shocked at H's outburst

[Alwaysalone]

Name changed..

Yesterday, as we're driving away for our annual weekend away (our only holiday every year), with DC (aged 1 and 3) in the car, H and I had an argument. It was over something silly (H had strapped in DC without putting her shoes on, and I hadn't packed any spare). I blamed him for it. Then, very placid, extremely kind H (who has never shouted at me in the 7 years we've been married), told me to 'shut the fuck up' or he'd 'punch my face in'. To say I was shocked would be an understatement.. After crying the remaining journey (me, and the kids), he drive us back home and unpacked his bag only, then went up to bed. When I attempted to discuss what he said in the car, he ignored me. When I enquired how we move on from this, he said 'we don't'. When I enquired what he meant, he said 'go figure'..

I slept in the spare room last night. I just don't know what to think. I don't know why he's being like this. He told me once a few years ago that I moan at him too much (which I accept, I have 2 young girls who are a real handful), but however much I nag, how does that justify what he said to me? In front of our children too... My heart is literally broken.. It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing. He has NEVER threatened violence before. Once, 3 years ago when we had another row (again, over something small), he told me he'd had enough and wanted a divorce. He then apologised to me (rare), and said he didn't mean it. Can someone help me make sense of this? Was it my fault? What should I do? I'm just devastated.

He has a good job, excellent provider, great dad and generally, very good Husband. I just don't know if I can forget what he said to me. He called me melodramatic last night too.. Am I being melodramatic? I know it's ridiculous to think about it, but my mum is seriously ill with a heart condition, and I don't want to add to her problems (she is usually who I turn to in times of problems)..

Please help.

This was not the only outburst.
This was the worst so far.

There are other worrying signs, if you actually bother to read the OP's posts carefully.

Stonewalling is an abusive tactic.

Is going silent and not wanting to talk because a) that is what you've grown up with? b) you are so angry and upset with yourself at what you did, c) you are maybe very unhappy in the marriage, want out and don't know how to tell the wife who loves you?

Any of the above could be applicable.

Not all men are abusers you know, some are just fallible human beings who make mistakes.

Lw. The OP doesn't say there have been other significant outbursts like this car incident?

I have read the OPs posts. I just haven't read into them a lot of things she hasn't said or intended.

My ex was abusive and he would tell me 'you say one thing and mean another' and that is exactly what you are doing with the OP.

Abusive men get away with it with women who keep excusing them.

Oh, the poor soul feels so guilty that he doesn't dare apologise. Seriously?

Not all men are abusers you know, some are just fallible human beings who make mistakes.

We do know. But men who threaten to punch their wives are.

I've said all I have to say now so am hiding this thread.

If you want to continue to manipulate the OP into giving up on her marriage despite her statement that it isn't what she wants, please do.

ISneeze Of course she doesn't say it's abuse. She can't see it. You can't when you are in the midst of it. The first time someone told me it was abuse the police and social services were involved already, and it shocked me and I still couldn't accept it.

Why are you finding it so hard to accept that people who have experience of this are seeing a different picture to you? That 'change in dynamics', that's how it starts, and what OP has described is instantly recognisable, even if she doesn't recognise it herself.

I accept I may be wrong. I'm asking her to read the links on the EA thread and decide for herself.

You are banging your head against a wall of knowledge and experience, not random strangers with an agenda. Will you please consider that our interpretation is at least as valid as yours.

The OP's words

"It's like there is no moderation in his behaviour. He's either silent, or he over exaggerates at the smallest thing."

"It's like there's no moderation in his emotions. He'll be incredibly passive, and won't say anything (in the middle of an argument), and then suddenly he'll just come out with the most insanely hurtful comment. No warning that his temper's starting to rise, or that's he's getting upset."

From the OP: I really did think he would hit me - That is the big problem. And the threat was so that you believed him.

It's a bit more than 'going silent and not wanting to talk'. I mean, that might be acceptable if they'd had a minor disagreement and he wanted a bit of space. Even then, he should give her the courtesy of explaining that he would like a little time to himself.

But he threatened to punch her in the face and has refused to entertain the possibility of discussing it.

Shut the fuck up or I'll punch your face in.
Where do we go from here?
We don't.
What do you mean?
Go figure.
Do you want to talk about it?
No.

I mean, really. Do you really think this man cares two hoots about what she's going through?

Isneeze, I didn't want to give up my marriage when I should have. It's only natural that Alwaysalone doesn't want to now, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be prepared to.

In any case, it's not her who would be giving up on the marriage. It's her OH who has made the threat and who is not dealing with this like an adult, or a loving partner.
If Alwaysalone leaves him, it's to safeguard herself, and to save her children from witnessing further events like this.

That he said it in front of the children (as it seems that he did) is another big red flag and abusive towards the children.

It does not matter what the trigger was. As it is, he is a dangerous man to be around.

then suddenly he'll just come out with the most insanely hurtful comment.

Just to be clear. This is an outburst. And it is abusive.

I am horrified by a man threatening to punch his wife's face in front of two small children, and then refusing to engage with her for 2 days.
My being appalled by that (and the way he went apeshit and threatened divorce over the perceived flirting of his wife) does not =all men are abusers. I have 4 brothers, and many male friends. None of them, as far as I know, are abusive. All have relationships that have hit rocky patches, most have stresses and strains, and arguments with their partners. If one of them behaved like this man, it would be an aberration, not an understandable reaction to normal bickering.
I am looking at the bare facts of what the OP says, and the fact that she is all too willing to take the blame for HIS actions.
And-7 years of good behaviour? Really? He doesn't sound like he normally behaves like a good guy to me! Either exploding and making threats or refusing to talk about anything is not "good behaviour".

The reason posters are so eager to call this abuse is because
A. It's very difficult to be subjective when you are in it
B. it very dangerous

It might be abuse/ it might not, but let's err on the side of caution eh?

There seems a lot more going on this relationship than this one outburst. As Lweji pointed out there seems to be little moderation on his behaviour, stonewalling but also a lot going on around parenting and domestic The OP said she had PND. Generally where there is PND there is lack of support. She needs help with the house/children. Why? Because she doesn't get help elsewhere. Who isn't giving her this help? Well that is illustrated nicely by the fact she had packed up the entire car and remembered everything they needed and he couldn't even manage to put the kids in the car fully dressed. And as for 'nagging'? That is something women do when asking men to pull their weight.

I mean really. Defending this arse? Why would you want to? He doesn't seem to need to your defence. He's quite happy sitting there making Alwaysalone run herself ragged and tear herself inside out. (Your nickname is very telling btw OP!) If he wanted to sort this out he could. But he doesn't so why on earth Alwaysalone should try and understand him or try a bit harder, fuck knows!

Alwaysalone - sorry about that rant! If I were you I'd starting thinking about what you want from this relationship. What you are getting from it now, and where you would like it to be. Then if he ever comes out of his child-like sulk you can lay it on the line for him. You should be the one looking for solicitors tbh but you may not be ready to do that yet. Just think about what he adds (or not) to the family unit.

Are you ok, Always?
I liked the suggestion of clean PJ's, glass of wine and snuggling into an early night with the DC's......
Thinking of you and whatever happens tomorrow you will get support here. Please don't think that you can't post if the situation develops in a way that may not be in agreement with what a particular group wants to hear.

Him not talking is copying his parents. I suppose you have to ask yourself whether you want to end up living in the same house as him for the next 20 years not talking.Remember his parents didn't plan to spend 20 years not talking

For those on this thread saying there has only been one outburst in 7 years I would like to point out as far as the op is concerned one of those outbursts if she hadn't apologised for something she hadn't done would have lasted 3 years to date. This time it could last for the rest of her married life.

I think the biggest problem is not what he said but his action or inaction on dealing with the fall out.

If a short time after his outburst he had apologised then I would say there was no problem whatever he had said. You could put it down to stress etc but given his history I personally would be asking him to leave. That is if he has threatened you with divorce I would call him on it.

That is why he is still in the house.

PND isn't caused by lack of support!
OP - out of idle curiosity - have you had any serious relationships before? What 'feedback' did you get from those partners, if applicable?

Hope you're still feeling a bit stronger, OP. Do you have any plans for tomorrow? Can you take the girls to see family / friends?

I agree with Mandyandme's points - it's hard to overestimate the significance of this issue about DH's parents not talking for 20 years.

My dad's GP were apparently like this - literally lived in separate parts of the house & didn't communicate. And it affected my grandad in turn: he always seemed jolly & benign to me, but according to my dad he spent half his time down the pub & used to ignore my grannie as a matter of course.

Dad is more self-aware, but there was still a pattern with my parents where he would withdraw & mum would become more demanding in turn. My mum's "nagging" (as some would call it) didn't make dad the way he is - his own upbringing took care of that! They divorced eventually, & I don't think either of them were really to blame in their case. They both had unhappy childhood legacies to cope with. My dad certainly never threatened to punch my mum's face in, though.

I think the post you wrote this morning was very wise, OP - that while you love your DH & don't want to lose him, neither do you want your children to grow up thinking this is normal behaviour. It really isn't.

One more point - did I understand correctly, OP, that at the moment you pay for everything for yourself & for your daughters - clothes etc. - from personal savings?

I know you didn't ask for advice about financial matters. But I wanted to draw attention to this bit (if I've got it right), given that many posters have chosen to focus so much on your SAHM status & the fact that you have help in the house. This financial set-up sounds very strange to me. Do you not have any access to family money - ie. your DH's salary ATM - in order to buy essentials for the children? Do you & DH sit down & discuss finance / financial priorities together?

Really hoping that you're able to have some time out to think about how you feel & what you want to do. I agree with others that the way your DH is behaving now, by refusing to speak to you (or play any part in family life, by the sounds of it) is at least as bad as his initial outburst. Sadly the idea of it as an isolated event, an expression of intolerable stress, seems less & less plausible in the light of his subsequent behaviour.

Hi guys..

Still no word from H. He took the girls to the supermarket in the afternoon whilst I had a little snooze. He must have mentioned something to his dad though, cos I got a cryptic vim asking me to call him.

Financial set-up is that we have a joint account that h puts money into every month. This is for me to pay bills, buy food, mortgage, home help etc. things that are directly related to myself, or kids clothing I pay for. This is simply cos h can't afford to pay that too. I don't mind, it's something we discussed, and I saved up enough to allow for it.

Please note, it's really in the last 3 years that I've noticed I nag. Prior to that, we had no problems of this nature. Previous relationships no problems, no one mentioned anything. My mum mentioned that I nag h too much about doing things my way with regards to the girls a few months ago. I have tried to stop, but it creeps back up on me again. Again, I don't really moan about general things-it's specific to things related to dds and their routine. I should just let go a bit more.

*voicemail

What did the cryptic message say OP?

But you can't let go about a food intolerance, do you?

What usually happens is that before children, it's easier not to notice when someone does it their own way, in their own time.
Children are more demanding and we have to be there for them, regardless of our wants. At that time, it may happen that one parent becomes the one responsible. And it comes across as nagging when the other isn't sufficiently responsible.

Just asked me to call him (FIL). I didn't. Can't be arsed tbh! He'll probably be on at me to apologise to h (he always typically takes his side as he's an absolute misogynist).

Dd2's lactose intolerance is quite bad. She screams with wind, and gets red lines around her mouth. I actually once walked in to find him feeding her yoghurt!

In his defence he didn't think from age frais had lactose lol